63.2.5 > 11 A psychedelic experience

[lightafterdarkness]

Hi everyone,

I asked the oracle about a psilocybin mushroom ceremony. My question follows: "What would happen if I would take th mushrooms?" 63.2.5

I have my own interpretations for the lines but am curious for outside perspectives.

Backstory for those interested:
My last proper journey was my first, 6 years ago. I took 2.3g and had an OBE (I have aphantasia, so having a lucid visual experience besides dreaming was BEAUTIFUL) not knowing the philosophical and therapeutic properties that psilocybin mushrooms can have. It lasted 12hrs, I combined it with chocolate and ate more of them 6hrs in.

I had prior experience with sclerotia but it never proved to have the same effects.

The trip was deeply therapeutic and confronting, but ultimately bliss and lifechanging. I am fearful though as in those six years I lost my father (recently), my brother (recently) and went through a toxic relationship also recently and it scarred me quite a bit. I feel like there's a lot to purge and honestly I am terrified. Back then I had been through a lot, but I was at a place where I was younger and didn't know what mushrooms could do so the surrender came naturally.

I know the most important thing to do is to surrender.

 

[Hans_K]

Hi Lightafterdarkness,
H63.2.5 <> H11
This is an incredibly interesting answer, which I believe I could fill several pages on (don't worry, I won't ).
H63 and H11 are similar in many ways. Whereas in H11 the primal forces Heaven and Earth are balanced (they move towards each other, they communicate with each other), in H63 the earthly forces Fire and Water are balanced. In this hexagram, all the lines are in the right position hence this hexagram is seen as the ultimate balance.
The moving lines are located at the 2nd and 5th positions and are both the middle line of respectively trigram Fire and Water. The middle lines in a trigram are the so-called Chi/human lines and deal with the emotional connection and feelings based on the past.
In Fire, this means being too attached to feelings and emotions, making it difficult to move on. Heaven gives structure and the ability to take the lead by yourself again. It gives the inner strength to make things go according to your own plan.
In Water, the moving line signifies insecurities, fears and a lack of direction which can result in trying to controle situations.
Earth gives the space to let go, to accept, allowing growth. It also gives confidence that things will develop according to certain laws (just as the seed put in the ground develops into a plant or a tree according to the laws of nature).

So the related hexagram H11 (Earth above Heaven) seems to take everything to the next level. What is out of balance in H63 by lines 2 and 5, is balanced by H11.
Personally, I think H11 is a nice representation for the psilocybin mushroom.
It is (literally) an earthly substance (Earth above) that puts you in touch with the higher aspect within yourself (Heaven below). (The upper trigram is the physical, the body, the lower trigram the inner).

This would be my interpretation, I hope it's a bit clear. As always, take what resonates and leave the rest

 

[lightafterdarkness]

Hi Lightafterdarkness,
H63.2.5 <> H11
This is an incredibly interesting answer, which I believe I could fill several pages on (don't worry, I won't ).
H63 and H11 are similar in many ways. Whereas in H11 the primal forces Heaven and Earth are balanced (they move towards each other, they communicate with each other), in H63 the earthly forces Fire and Water are balanced. In this hexagram, all the lines are in the right position hence this hexagram is seen as the ultimate balance.
The moving lines are located at the 2nd and 5th positions and are both the middle line of respectively trigram Fire and Water. The middle lines in a trigram are the so-called Chi/human lines and deal with the emotional connection and feelings based on the past.
In Fire, this means being too attached to feelings and emotions, making it difficult to move on. Heaven gives structure and the ability to take the lead by yourself again. It gives the inner strength to make things go according to your own plan.
In Water, the moving line signifies insecurities, fears and a lack of direction which can result in trying to controle situations.
Earth gives the space to let go, to accept, allowing growth. It also gives confidence that things will develop according to certain laws (just as the seed put in the ground develops into a plant or a tree according to the laws of nature).

So the related hexagram H11 seems to take everything to the next level. What is out of balance in H63 by lines 2 and 5, is balanced by H11.
Personally, I think H11 is a nice representation for the psilocybin mushroom.
It is (literally) an earthly substance (Earth above) that puts you in touch with the higher aspect within yourself (Heaven below). (The upper trigram is the physical, the body, the lower trigram the inner).

This would be my interpretation, I hope it's a bit clear. As always, take what resonates and leave the rest

Very interesting interpretation. I'm actually interested if there's any other thoughts you have on this, don't hesitate!

It's main theme seems to be to find balance in the experience by working through the elements. As in, too much water, balance with earth. Is this intepretation of earth yours or something interpreted from the Yi?

My personal interpretation was that 63 seems to refer to an ending of a cycle as well as a beginning of a new one. Resembling tbe cycle of life, as well as reminding us that the only constant in life is change; even when things don't seem to move. 11 resembling the polarity that exists in life.

Line 2 to me, sounded like being faced with myself. "losing the carriage screen, do not run after it- on the seventh day you'll retrieve it." To me sounds like being exposed, vulnerable by losing the screen. Also to accept it's loss and not run after it (to try and control and possibly exposing yourslef even more) you surrender by accepting. and accepting allows you to come back to that state of safety, time has passed. maybe this means integration?

line 5 is harder for me to interpret. what here is the sacrifice? it speaks of an offering, to me this sound like ceremonial preparation. perhaps telling me, i dont need to plan, my heart just needs to be at the right place (offering with intent to me is more powerful than a grand offering without the heart?)

Would love to hear your thoughts on my interpretation of the lines!

 

[dobro p]

Hi everyone,

I asked the oracle about a psilocybin mushroom ceremony. My question follows: "What would happen if I would take th mushrooms?" 63.2.5

I have my own interpretations for the lines but am curious for outside perspectives.

I know the most important thing to do is to surrender.

I always think that taking hallucinogenics is a big deal (it opens doors inwardly that are ordinarily not so open, or not open at all). Combine this with what you say about a load of difficult (and unprocessed?) emotion because of your recent losses and upsets and your doubts about the wisdom of taking psilocybin at the present time. Ordinarily, that would be enough to dissuade me. But what does the Yi say?

63 is about things being in the right place right now, so be cautious about taking action, because when things are in their proper place, any change can only mean moving in the direction of things not being in the proper place. That caution would suggest not taking the mushrooms, I think.

The changing lines: 63.2 says something like 'wait for it' and 63.5 says something like 'go small, not big'. Again, that points away from a big psychedelic experience.

Finally, the relating hex is 11: 'The small departs, the great approaches'. If this had been the main hexagram, I'd say 'go for it', but it's the relating hexagram. That means the image and the omen are in the context of Hex 63, something along the lines of: 'Being cautious not to unbalance things by taking ill-considered action is what facilitates the departure of the small and the arrival of the great'.

What are the chances that the desire for the hallucinogenic is less a solution and more a measure of your felt need for insight and relief? You speak of purging the pain, but what about a slow burn through the pain?

ps Personally, I have zero objections to taking hallucinogenics, and have done so myself.

 

[Hans_K]

It's main theme seems to be to find balance in the experience by working through the elements. As in, too much water, balance with earth. Is this intepretation of earth yours or something interpreted from the Yi?

It is slightly different. The interpretation was done through the trigrams This is the so-called Taoist way of interpreting the Yi and therefore is not about finding balance between the elements.
H63 is trigram Water above trigram Fire and H11 is trigram Earth above trigram Earth.

Line 2 to me, sounded like being faced with myself. "losing the carriage screen, do not run after it- on the seventh day you'll retrieve it."

Isn't this about the same as my interpretation. Here you might see a little more distinctly what you are facing.

In Fire, this means being too attached to feelings and emotions, making it difficult to move on. Heaven gives structure and the ability to take the lead by yourself again. It gives the inner strength to make things go according to your own plan.

The first part dealing with trigram Fire can be about the following "I do feel scared because in those six years I have lost my father (recently), my brother (recently) and I have also recently been in a toxic relationship and that has scarred me quite a lot. I feel like there is a lot to purge and frankly I am terrified."
To what extent do these sad events affect your daily life and do their emotional impact limit your progress?

line 5 is harder for me to interpret. what here is the sacrifice? it speaks of an offering,

The sacrifice talked about in the line 5 text can also mean letting go of something.

My personal interpretation was that 63 seems to refer to an ending of a cycle as well as a beginning of a new one. Resembling tbe cycle of life, as well as reminding us that the only constant in life is change; even when things don't seem to move. 11 resembling the polarity that exists in life.

In H63, everything in the hexagram is correct. All yang lines are in a yang position and yin lines are in a yin position. The lines have resonance and the trigrams Water and Fire move towards each other. This is the only hexagram where everything is perfectly balanced. The title of the hexagram also refers to this: After Completion. The work is done, the project is finished. The way I see it, this is not the end of a cycle and the beginning of a new cycle, it is exactly the moment in between.

Yes H11 is about the polarities, but in H11 those polarities are balanced with each other, you could call this the flow of life. Heaven and Earth communicate with each other here. So it's not either one or the other.

By the way, there is also a contradiction in the question you ask:

My question follows: "What would happen if I would take th mushrooms?"

and the way you interpret the answer.Namely your interpretation seems to come from a place of whether or not you should take psilocybin, but that wasn't your question.

Mind you, this is how I would interpret it. If it does not resonate then you should forget everything that is written here .
My only advice would be to interpret the answer from the situation and not the question.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

It is slightly different. The interpretation was done through the trigrams This is the so-called Taoist way of interpreting the Yi and therefore is not about finding balance between the elements.
H63 is trigram Water above trigram Fire and H11 is trigram Earth above trigram Earth.

Isn't this about the same as my interpretation. Here you might see a little more distinctly what you are facing.

The first part dealing with trigram Fire can be about the following "I do feel scared because in those six years I have lost my father (recently), my brother (recently) and I have also recently been in a toxic relationship and that has scarred me quite a lot. I feel like there is a lot to purge and frankly I am terrified."
To what extent do these sad events affect your daily life and do their emotional impact limit your progress?


The sacrifice talked about in the line 5 text can also mean letting go of something.


In H63, everything in the hexagram is correct. All yang lines are in a yang position and yin lines are in a yin position. The lines have resonance and the trigrams Water and Fire move towards each other. This is the only hexagram where everything is perfectly balanced. The title of the hexagram also refers to this: After Completion. The work is done, the project is finished. The way I see it, this is not the end of a cycle and the beginning of a new cycle, it is exactly the moment in between.

Yes H11 is about the polarities, but in H11 those polarities are balanced with each other, you could call this the flow of life. Heaven and Earth communicate with each other here. So it's not either one or the other.

By the way, there is also a contradiction in the question you ask:

and the way you interpret the answer.Namely your interpretation seems to come from a place of whether or not you should take psilocybin, but that wasn't your question.

Mind you, this is how I would interpret it. If it does not resonate then you should forget everything that is written here .
My only advice would be to interpret the answer from the situation and not the question.

Honestly I read everything after a long day at work at 12:30 am but now reading it again I can comprehend better. (English is not my first language) I have no prior experience interpreting hexagrams the Taoist way so I got a bit confused. I relate to being attached to my emotions and having trouble moving on, this is mostly related to the toxic relationship. It did leave me with fears and insecurities.

As for my daily life, I notice being exhausted easily. My nervous system is over alert and I find it hard to relax as a result of a few hard years. Namely the toxic relationship is creating disturbance. As for my father, grief is a continuing process and I feel like on days where I am full of love it motivates me to live fully and the grief transcends into a love closer than flesh, to take his spirit with me. Days where I lack love, it's a void nothing can fill. Also, I grieve my past self and feel like I am in a state of rebuilding my broken foundation in life. I also entered my first house profection year in astrology, which stands for basically a rebirth and recreating the ego and self. I just left the 12th back in march, meaning death, karmic cycles etc. I think mushrooms could aid me to break down outdated energies still lingering, to purge and to come back home to myself.

Is this development of the hexagram a reflection of what would happen if I would take the mushrooms? You said line 2 and 5 were ruled by fire and water and fire is attachment and emotions, water representing insecurities and fears. Line 5 lso implying letting go. (Of the insecurities and fears?) So 63.2.5 is balanced by water and fire, changing into 11 (the mushroom) balancing heaven and earth? Checking if I understand correctly.

Here it sounds like Hexagram 63 is representing me, line 2 and 3 fire and water the fears and insecurities I deal with I would like set an intention for. Hexagram 11, according to you, reflecting the mushroom? I love the way you relate earth to the heavens because this is truly what it does. It allows you to see into the unseen.

It wasn't about whether to take mushrooms or not, rather about where it would take me. I want to be intentional with it and I know any type of preparation won't work if the heart isn't open to it. And I'm not sure if I can completely surrender, hence my question what would happen if I would take them.


Thank you again and no I do resonate with your explaination and am grateful, I just like to see all perspectives and make sure I understand correctly while also explaining my own first thoughts!

 

[lightafterdarkness]

I always think that taking hallucinogenics is a big deal (it opens doors inwardly that are ordinarily not so open, or not open at all). Combine this with what you say about a load of difficult (and unprocessed?) emotion because of your recent losses and upsets and your doubts about the wisdom of taking psilocybin at the present time. Ordinarily, that would be enough to dissuade me. But what does the Yi say?

63 is about things being in the right place right now, so be cautious about taking action, because when things are in their proper place, any change can only mean moving in the direction of things not being in the proper place. That caution would suggest not taking the mushrooms, I think.

The changing lines: 63.2 says something like 'wait for it' and 63.5 says something like 'go small, not big'. Again, that points away from a big psychedelic experience.

Finally, the relating hex is 11: 'The small departs, the great approaches'. If this had been the main hexagram, I'd say 'go for it', but it's the relating hexagram. That means the image and the omen are in the context of Hex 63, something along the lines of: 'Being cautious not to unbalance things by taking ill-considered action is what facilitates the departure of the small and the arrival of the great'.

What are the chances that the desire for the hallucinogenic is less a solution and more a measure of your felt need for insight and relief? You speak of purging the pain, but what about a slow burn through the pain?

ps Personally, I have zero objections to taking hallucinogenics, and have done so myself.

Yes, I take hallucinogens seriously because of that very reason hence my question. I am also extremely sensitive because the reaction I have to a mild dose is something most have to 5g +.
I know mushrooms have the power to open doors but I also know from my past experience that there's a possibility if I stand strong within myself and surrender, that the fear will be transcended by love and I will allow myself to grieve and forgive. To accept. To see the relativity in everything, even in death and loss. I have done so before but it's a continuous process and my nervous system is still in overdrive, I think of it as a reset. But I know it's a unpredictable substance and honestly, if I would take mushrooms I would ease into it and first microdose and get in touch with the entity again and see how it feels. Lightly.

I actually do not see the mushrooms as a solution but rather a tool to work through some things with less inhibition and also to get back in touch with myself. I don't think there is a solution rather it's a process and the process of healing and growth never ends it only changes, peels into deeper layers.

A slow burn is actually what I would like, but still it's a purge. In my first experience I faced the loss of my parents, even before something happened. 6 years later I almost lost my mom and lost my father, I even knew he had cancer while he knew himself for only 2 days. It wasn't visible. I feel like the mushrooms knew and something in me knew. Or the mushrooms showed me something of the future. I cried and purged those fears in the most gentle way 6 years ago through the mushrooms as well as other fears. The mushroom helped me through my own mind in the most gentle way as the purging was done in love and gentleness and more even so, to find deep trust and love for myself.
I feel like my brain currently is a bit stuck and the mushrooms could work as oil so I can do the work of grinding the gears more smoothly again.

Now my question was what would happen, not if I should or not, your interpretation seems to say wait for the right moment and start small as the answer from the oracle. I know sometimes the oracle does not give answers to what we asked but rather what we need to hear. This seems to be the case in your interpretation?

 

[Hans_K]

Hi Lightafterdarkness,

Is this development of the hexagram a reflection of what would happen if I would take the mushrooms?

Yes, because that was your question. The question was not should I take psilocybin mushrooms or not.

You said line 2 and 5 were ruled by fire and water and fire is attachment and emotions, water representing insecurities and fears.

It's something else, I'm afraid something goes wrong in translation here.
Line 2 and 5 are the middle of the trigrams Fire and Water (note this has nothing to do with elements, this is part of the Yi. read e.g. text Image H63)

Perhaps using the image above, the following can be better understood:

The moving lines are located at the 2nd and 5th positions and are both the middle line of respectively trigram Fire and Water. The middle lines in a trigram are the so-called Chi/human lines and deal with the emotional connection and feelings based on the past.
In Fire, this means being too attached to feelings and emotions, making it difficult to move on. Heaven gives structure and the ability to take the lead by yourself again. It gives the inner strength to make things go according to your own plan.
In Water, the moving line signifies insecurities, fears and a lack of direction which can result in trying to controle situations.
Earth gives the space to let go, to accept, allowing growth. It also gives confidence that things will develop according to certain laws (just as the seed put in the ground develops into a plant or a tree according to the laws of nature).

The following is also not entirely accurate:

Here it sounds like Hexagram 63 is representing me, line 2 and 3 fire and water the fears and insecurities I deal with I would like set an intention for.

It is not that lines 2 and 5 represent Fire and Water. Lines 2 and 5 are the moving lines in trigram Fire and trigram Water. Because they are the moving lines in these trigrams, the trigrams take on the meaning I depicted in the previous comment.

Hexagram 11, according to you, reflecting the mushroom?

Don't see this as black and white.I see it more as a remarkable thing that the question is about mushrooms and that H11 is part of the answer. H11 obviously has other meanings in the answer than just representing mushrooms.

Hopefully this makes it all a bit more clear.