about finances 61.5?

[dragona]

Hello, simple question for not so simple circumstances.
Hoping for some aid but I did hope for getting back to work and it did not happen, so...
What will be my financial situation for the next month? 61.5>41
I suppose I should persevere (in what direction?) and friends will not abandon me. That is the best I have atm.
This really is a difficult situation in financial and emotional front. For months now I feel.. deflated.
If you have anything specific on this line as on this hex, please share.

http://www.jamesdekorne.com/GBCh/hex61.htm

 

[Liselle]

Do you think it might mean that you actually will get work, sometime in the month?

"Pouring out" (41) your "Inner Truth" (61) might mean using your skills, giving of yourself...the line talks about a bond, which could mean someone hiring you?

The text in Wilhelm-Baynes:

"He possesses truth, which links together.
No blame."​

You "possess" something (skills, simple availability for things since you're not currently working), which links you together with someone.

It says, "No blame," other translations use the words, "No mistake" - maybe it will be some kind of unusual work, or some sort of unusual sacrifice (41) on your part. Maybe you'll wonder if you actually want to do whatever-it-is, and the line says it won't be a mistake.

 

[dragona]

Thanks, very optimistic, wish you were right and I could share the enthusiasm.

 

[Liselle]

Thanks, very optimistic, wish you were right and I could share the enthusiasm.

Well, yes, and unfortunately, until something happens, there's no way of knowing.

I should have looked for more than the one angle, but I do think the "bonding" and "linking" in the line is optimistic, in some way. I don't think you'd get this reading if the situation was hopeless . Would you agree with that? Not necessarily?

So hopefully it's more a matter of how exactly it will happen. What I said at the end of my earlier comment was based on known experiences (not of 61.5>41; just a couple of events), where pouring out inner resources could mean someone will offer you ad-hoc sorts of jobs, which might be draining (out of your comfort zone or something) but which will get you through the month financially.
Of course, it could also mean that the usual sort of exhaustive job search will finally pay off this month :claps:.

 

[dragona]

I get tones of "whatever pops to mind" advices and having to nod at stupid ideas those who offer would never take on themselves is humiliating. Job hunting in an usual way is hopeless effort here, you do not even get any kind of answer back after sending papers in mostly.
To understand the answer better, for me always works to get back at the actual question asked, which was not about job seeking exclusively-just saying. I had money due but dragging in decision on my mind because getting a job this fast would be a miracle.
Thanks for your bright optimism, Lisa

 

[pocossin]

Don't you have relatives who could employ you for a short term or who could help you find employment? With your experience you could help elderly persons who wish to continue living at home. If you stay in circulation you are likely to find an opportunity that you really like.

 

[Liselle]

I get tones of "whatever pops to mind" advices and having to nod at stupid ideas those who offer would never take on themselves is humiliating.

Am not sure how my responses had a tone of "whatever pops to mind." I tried to be careful to explain how I got it from the reading - the hexagrams and the line text.

But you're right, the "linking" wouldn't have to be a normal job. That is the most common way that someone becomes "linked" with money, but you could receive a gift, someone could offer to pay some bills for you, you could find money on the street (not joking - years ago a friend of mine once found cash under her car at a time she really needed it).

It could be lots of things. The reading is certainly not specific. I can sympathize with you not seeing any optimism anywhere - as you said, this has been going on for a long time and you're utterly deflated, if not terrified. But I still honestly don't see how the reading isn't optimistic. I can't get, "Your financial situation for the next month will be disastrous," out of that line text.

Do you? What am I missing? How are you seeing the reading?

Along the general lines of what Pocossin said, I'll share one of the events I alluded to earlier. Once when I was unemployed, a friend developed a medical problem. She needed someone to help her, and I was available, which I normally would not have been. I stayed with her during her recovery, and at the end she gave me some money. I wished I wouldn't have had to take it from her, but I needed it, just as she unexpectedly needed this unusual help. It was a sacrifice for me (hex 41) and quite draining of my inner resources in the sense that I had to live with her instead of in my own home. Also, nursing (of a sort) doesn't really come naturally to me. The point, though, is that out of the blue, I was "linked" with money. (Am not implying I got 61.5>41 about this situation - it was before I'd even heard of the I Ching.)

But of course, I could certainly be wrong about the reading. Maybe other people will have things to say about it, and I'll go .

 

[diamanda]

Hi dragona,
What will be my financial situation for the next month? 61.5>41
It sounds to me like "if you are truthful" then you will "lose".
No blame of course, no mistake etc, however if it's money you're after, truth is not the way to get it on this occasion. So if we're talking eg CVs here etc, then try embellishing the truth quite a bit.

 

[Liselle]

Yet another possibility might be that the two hexagrams 61 and 41 - "pouring out" of "inner resources" - isn't describing the situation as it will be in the next month, but instead, how it is right now - you feel deflated and drained. Then it might be just the line that's the direct answer to your question (which I still think is encouraging).

Diamanda's interpretation is interesting. I can see how she got that from the hexagrams. Not sure about the line, though, since it literally says that "truth" "links" (or "bonds"). Also am not sure that "truth," either in hex 61 or in the line, means literally telling the truth, as in the opposite of falsehood. It might just mean truth as in sincerity.

But anyway, in real life there is certainly such a thing as being too honest. Playing up your work on a resume, in interviews, or just in talking to people - casting yourself in the best possible light - is probably standard procedure. Certainly don't downplay yourself. Another example (just an example - may not literally apply) might be assuring someone that you can do something, when in fact you're rusty and out of practice at it, and then working madly to refresh. (JUST an example. But it could fit with the reading - making a sacrifice (41) to "link" (61.5) yourself with something.)

Resumes etc. can be checked, though, so be careful. Embellishing "quite a bit" might be too much.

(Here we are still talking about resumes and companies, when you're pretty sure the usual sort of job is not possible, and not what you were asking about. If you do not have any job applications actually circulating at the moment, then take all this off the table.)

How would you feel about asking another question? Something like, ""What must I do to achieve the "linking" in 61.5?" or "How will the money come to me this month?" That might help to narrow things down.

 

[dragona]

Am not sure how my responses had a tone of "whatever pops to mind."

I am sorry if it seemed like I meant you.

 

[emiliana2010]

Though I am not an expert in the Yi, it seems to me that next month you will receive money from people who love you and are close to you. There is no blame in doing it.

All the best!

 

[Liselle]

it seems to me that next month you will receive money from people who love you and are close to you. There is no blame in doing it.

Ohhh...and then the reading would be describing other people's "pouring out" - to you. That's a good angle.

See, now I will do a tiny bit of .

Just as a practical matter, though, you might still be best off if you stay alert for any and all ways of being "linked" with money. There could be more than one source - I don't think the reading is specific enough to tell for sure.

 

[dragona]

Thank you again,
"pouring out" is diminishing as we speak...I am quite lost by now...There is no way someone would just offer money as a present here in my world. Nursing and reliving everything I went through and still processing wold not help my depression, but the thing is that interpretations of readings are just that and one needs to be incredibly open and have an creative outlook on it all which is quite hard when one is struggling.

 

[Liselle]

Dragona,

I have a great deal of sympathy for what you're going through, really. Few things in life are more stressful than financial problems.

You are absolutely right - it is terribly difficult, maybe impossible, to have a positive outlook under such conditions.

The bottom line, though, is that I do think the reading is encouraging. I could be wrong. Maybe there is some way to interpret that reading as complete doom and gloom. But I don't see it, and neither have the other people who have commented so far.

I still think it is possible that what will link you with money this month will not be totally glorious. There are many possibilities, but - unfortunately - I do think you have to be prepared for that. The 61>41 pouring out of inner resources might very well be directly connected to the line 5 linking with money, and not a description of your current already-poured-out condition, and not a description of other people giving you money. The reading is not specific enough to know for sure.

The examples we have given are just examples, to try to flesh out our interpretations and brainstorm a little bit.

Again, maybe it would be helpful to ask another question now, to try to get more specific information and spark some ideas. Follow-up questions aren't always bad, surely, if they are methodical and well-considered. I do think the 61.5 > 41 reading says there is a solution out there. But it has to be identified and taken advantage of. Doing another reading at this point could be a step in that direction.

 

[dragona]

I don`t think casting 61.5 is unfortunate, but I just cannot see how exactly it relates.....
asking for the month ahead was to see how the situation may progress for some time now and so far it is not going well, so
What will be my financial situation for the next month? 61.5>41
Even though Legge: Line five is dynamic and in the central place of the ruler. He is the sage on the throne whose sincerity goes forth to bind all in union with himself., I find it interesting how the commentary is stressing concentration on oneself and then the others:
Editor: The line and its commentaries present a highly accurate image of the individuation process in its concentrated essence. The goal of the Work is to unite all of the disparate aspects of the psyche into a harmonious whole. If this is the only changing line, the hexagram becomes number forty-one, Compensating Sacrifice, the corresponding line of which images a profound and beneficial increase: “Someone does indeed increase him. Ten pairs of tortoises cannot oppose it. Supreme good fortune” (Wilhelm). Psychologically interpreted, this is the seat of the Self in the hexagram of Inner Truth.
Behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17: 21
A. Inner Truth links powers together within the psyche.
B. "The truth shall make you free."

Where to turn (my attention?) for financial gain and prosperity? 21.9<51
Confucius/Legge: He wears the cangue and is deprived of his ears -- he hears, but will not understand. Wilhelm/Baynes: He does not hear clearly. Blofeld: This implies dullness of hearing or intellect. [This suggests that, for the present, we should not put much trust in our own judgment.] Ritsema/Karcher: Understanding not brightened indeed. Cleary (2): Means not listening clearly. Wu: Because he hears, but does not heed.

What is it that I do not hear, see or understand due to 21.9 cast? 37.6<63
Line-6
Legge: The sixth line, dynamic, shows its subject possessed of sincerity and arrayed in majesty. In the end there will be good fortune.
Wilhelm/Baynes: His work commands respect. In the end good fortune comes.
Blofeld: His sincerity (and/or confidence) is such as to make him appear awe-inspiring -- good fortune in the end!
Liu: Sincerity and dignity bring good fortune.
Ritsema/Karcher: Possessing conformity, impressing thus. Completing significant.
Shaughnessy: There is a return stooped-like; in the end auspicious.
Cleary (1): There is trustworthiness, dignified; it turns out well.
Cleary (2): There is truthfulness, which is impressive. The end is auspicious.
Wu: He is confident in his dignity and will have good fortune in the end.
Seems we are back to 61.5. Authority and conduct.COMMENTARY

Confucius/Legge: This is the result of the recovery of the true character. Wilhelm/Baynes: This indicates that one makes demands first of all upon oneself. Blofeld: He will enjoy good fortune because he subjects himself frequently to self-examination. Ritsema/Karcher: Reversing individuality's designating indeed. Cleary (2): What is auspicious about his impressiveness is that it calls for personal transformation. Wu: He often examines his own conduct.

One would think all of this text would clear things out.

 

[Liselle]

Hi Dragona,

For now, I'm going to just respond a little bit to the 61.5>41 reading, since it's time for . (And if you're in Europe it's nearing dawn .)

I think there is one HUGELY understandable reason why you can't see the bright side of this reading: the fact that you don't have the money yet. That is all you can see. And I do not blame you. But that doesn't change what the reading actually says - which I think is very encouraging, and relates very well to your situation.

Let's look at the new text you quoted.

For one thing, you didn't ask a psychological question. You asked about your financial situation in the next month. So I think you have to adapt the psychologically-oriented words to fit your more practical question.

All I originally did to interpret 61.5>41 was this:

Q: What will be my financial situation for the next month?
A: You will be "linked" or "bonded" with money. (61.5)​

That was pretty much it. It seemed quite straightforward, to me at least.

I did do a bit more thinking to see if there was anything in the reading that confused that seemingly simple answer, and I didn't find anything. The only possible negativity was what I already said might be the case, that whatever it is that can link you with money might be "draining" (hex 41) of your inner resources (hex 61). And then I speculated a bit about how something that links you with money could feel draining to you - but that was ONLY speculation.

I hadn't even paid attention to the corresponding line, 41.5. But 41.5 is, in my opinion, one of the most auspicious lines in the I Ching. I would be delighted to have it anywhere near my reading . Of course, it's the Fan Yao, and not the actual reading. I really have no idea how to use corresponding lines in interpretations, so either someone else will come along to enlighten both of us, or we will speak no more about it.

Re: the commentary you quoted:

"The line and its commentaries present a highly accurate image of the individuation process in its concentrated essence."​

I have absolutely no idea what that is trying to say. Moving along...

"The goal of the Work is to unite all of the disparate aspects of the psyche into a harmonious whole."​

Don't get stuck on the word "psyche." You did not ask about your psyche; you asked about your finances. So let's eliminate that part:

"Uniting disparate aspects...into a harmonious whole."​

Having your finances "unit[ed]...into a harmonious whole" sounds quite lovely. "Harmony" in one's finances is a good thing. Having your finances "whole" - which could be interpreted as being able to make ends meet this month and pay your bills - is another good thing. I mean, if you weren't going to be able to pay your bills this month, no one would use the word "whole" to describe the situation.

The "disparate aspects" part - maybe the money you'll be linked with this month won't come in one lump sum, but in several smaller chunks which will add up to what you need? Maybe the money will come in various ways, from various sources, or as the result of more than one kind of activity on your part? (Again, that's speculation. Just trying to imagine how the "disparate aspects" part might apply.)

But I don't think the additional text muddles the interpretation at all. I think it confirms it. I think this is a good reading. Nerve-wracking, since, again, you don't have the money yet. But still, a good reading.

I'm glad you asked additional questions. I'll look at them tomorrow. Of course, I may not understand them. There are lots of readings I don't understand, and I skip right over them in the forum. But if I don't understand these, I'll just say so. Hopefully someone else will have ideas about them.

 

[Liselle]

21.6 > 51

Neither of your last two readings are as clear to me as the first one.

With the second reading, I can at least think of some things to speculate about (brainstorming only!).

21.6 from Hilary's book:

"Shouldering a cangue so your ears disappear - pitfall."​

Let's start with some very literal speculation. Something that covers your ears. A head covering. I have no idea what kind of work you've ever done. Have you done any jobs in the past, or are there any jobs on your radar at the moment, that require you to wear any kind of head covering? Outdoor jobs where you might wear a hat at this time of year? A job around food that would require a hairnet? Something where a hardhat is required? Earphones, such as people talking on telephones might wear, or people employed in drive-through windows? Anything like that?

Or even - have you ever worked with deaf or hard-of-hearing people?

---

Now the more standard kind of interpretation. Unfortunately, most of this is going to sound preachy, and you won't like it. It's not that I think this kind of advice is fun to dispense! I absolutely hate when the I Ching preaches to me. But sometimes things need to be said, and Yi will come right out and say them, without mincing words. Your situation is as it is, and the facts are what they are. So please try to see it in that sort of realistic way, and not just as yelling. (And I am getting it from the reading. Interpretations can be wrong, and there are always different ways to see the same reading. But I'm not just making it up.)

Hex 21's name is "Biting Through." Gnawing away at something that is tough to chew. Wilhelm-Baynes calls hex 51 "The Arousing (Shock, Thunder)." I've gotten hex 51 more than once where Yi was telling me to hurry up or I'd be late.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but it's very possible that Yi is telling you you'll have to "arouse" yourself and do some hard, tough work. Either the work itself will be difficult or unpleasant, or finding work will require a lot of hustle. Something like that. Echoes of "pouring out" your "inner resources" from the first reading.

(But also remember that the first reading told you that you will be successful - you will get your money.)

I do realize you are already tired. I get that. But keep your eyes on the goal - think how much better you'll feel when you have enough money to pay your bills. Won't it feel like a heavy weight (the cangue from 21.6) has been lifted from your shoulders? Won't that make all the "gnawing" worth it? Imagine that feeling, and use it as motivation.

The line text: You're not hearing something, not getting a message. That might refer back to the first reading, and the "sacrifice" part (hex 41). Maybe you're not accepting the message that this may not fall into place easily.

Or, has anyone in your real life given you any advice about this that you've been somewhat reluctant to take?

Wilhelm-Baynes' commentary on 21.6:

"In contrast to the first line, this line refers to a man who is incorrigible. His
punishment is the wooden cangue, and his ears disappear under it - that is to
say, he is deaf to warnings. This obstinacy leads to misfortune."​

Hilary's commentary from her book:

"A cangue is a punishment device, like wooden stocks carried round the neck, and this one is so big and heavy that it covers your ears. Here is someone who cannot hear the truth: it's not merely that you refuse to listen - you are simply not available to take in anything more. you might even prefer to take more on yourself and labour under a great weight of responsibility, to block out the messages of change."​

From what you've said, this sounds very much like how you've described your current mental state - this has been going on for a very long time, and you can't take any more. Maybe on some unconscious level, you prefer the demon you know (the "great weight" of your financial problems) to the demon you don't know (how to fix it - you don't know what the solution is, and you don't even know how to look for a solution. As you said in the beginning, job hunting in your area is a "hopeless effort.")

But again, remember the first reading - however unlikely it seems, the first reading was (as very best as I can tell) promising success.

And, I mean, even in the worst job market, there are still some people who are getting jobs, right?

I think the bottom line with this reading is this: It is yelling at you - warning you - to get going and do something, and it's probably going to be difficult. There might be a lot of "change" involved - "Thunder" can cause a lot of upheaval. And NO ONE (least of all me) wants to hear that, from the I Ching or anyone else.

But you know what it's NOT saying? It's not saying there is no hope. The first reading seems like the very opposite of that. Again - repeating for emphasis - try to let that give you some motivation and encouragment. "Thunder" (hex 51) can be invigorating. YOU CAN DO THIS. (Am getting this from the reading. It is not just me with a ridiculous pep talk. Try to allow the Yi to encourage you. Try to hear that message, too.)

 

[anemos]

What will be my financial situation for the next month? 61.5>41

With a lot of understanding about your situation, I have to point out that , imho, even the way the question is phrased, the locus of control is outside your self.

21.6 might mean that by 61.5 Yi says to you that you are the King ( its the ruler's line) but its not easy to see it , hence your 41 : " By this decrease of the lower powers of the psyche, the higher aspects of the soul are enriched"

In other words, it might says that you have the power to gather your inner people and those outside that can help you to find some solution.

Some months ago, due to many problems , I got sick. The doctor said loudly " stop going to the office" I had to deal with all the guilt and stayed home. I was really ill that I obeyd this order. I was still ill when my dad passed and had to return. The first day they took me at the Emergencies in a local setting and the doctor said " go NOW to the hospital". I didn't because I knew was just anxiety. I lied to the rest that were worried that the doctor said just to go home and rest and was nothing serious. Well, was half a lie because just before go outside the examining room I said to myself that I won't let those things kill me.

Most of the times I'm ok and when the power of external situations grew the symptoms return. I acknowledge all those feelings but I refrain fro let them send me to the bed or kill me. " i hear you, i say to that part of self, but we need to take care of ourselves"

You are the king, this is how I see your readings and when you ask again Yi say " i repeat, YOU are the king"