About Reconnection Someone 54.2.4 to 24.

[mintaka]

Hello everyone,

I am new here and to the I Ching. I was looking for a spiritual advice to reconnect / find someone whom I had lost contact with years ago. I have just open a facebook account just to try to connect with him through social media, even though I am not sure If it really is him as there is no photos.

As I understand first hexagram 54 is my current state and the changing hexagram 24 is how should I act. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. I've asked "Advise me how to find xx on social media" and Yi's answer, 54.2.4 to 24. Could you kindly explain this to me as I don't really understand what should I do?

Line 2: 'With one eye, can see. A hermit's constancy bears fruit.'​

Line 4: 'Marrying maiden overruns the set time. Delays and marries at the right time.'​

 

[mandarin_23]

Hi mintaka,

the relating hexagram doesn't tell you how you should act, I think. The Yi doesn't tell you anyway, it's your decision! As it is a question about reconnecting with someone, I think that the related hexagram 24 "returning" just depicts the situation - you want to contact someone again.

The real reading is 54, the marrying maiden, a situation in which you need a lot of tact and can't really foretell what happens. 54 is a bit shady - a hermit's constancy. You only met him on social media so far, and there is not so much you know about him. All in the shade!

And 54 says that there is plenty of time, no hurry. Maybe you still need to make up your mind why you lost this person out of sight, and why you really want to reconnect.

All the best to you,
Mandarine_23

 

[mintaka]

Hello Manderine_23;

Thank you for reply.

I haven't met him on social media. I have met him in real life, we were friends and then we fall apart. Now that I don't have his email or phone I am trying to find him well I am thinking of finding him online if possible but as I am a little bit shy of how to connect him I don't know what should do.

 

[diamant]

Advise me how to find xx on social media 54.2.4 > 24
54.2 says that you'll be able to have a small look at his current life. The line shows a lonely woman, abandoned, looking. So maybe you won't like what you see.
54.4 is about missing the right timing for marriage, then waiting for a long time, till a new marriage comes along. It looks like you'll find someone else at some point.
24 shows indifference, so my guess is you won't care about him anymore once you find that other person.

 

[mintaka]

Hello Diamant

Thank you for reply.

 

[moss elk]

Little sister Returns home from this adventure.

 

[rosada]

24. Return reads like a reference to your wanting to return to this old friend but it could also be saying a deeper motivation is that you are finding the world has just gotten to be too much and that your desire to reconnect is motivated by a desire to return to simpler more familiar times, maybe even advice to withdraw from this search and reconnect with your own inner peace.

If I read these lines as a picture of your situation it appears to me that..

54.2 You aren't seeing the full picture - perhaps a reference to you not fully understanding how to go about locating your friend - yet if you continue to try to figure it out you should be able to learn what to do.

54.4 Something doesn't work out but you try something else and this proves successful. Perhaps as Diamant suggests this could be a new relationship but as your question was how to find your friend using social media I could also read this as being encouragement to try some other approach to finding him or at least finding someone other than the IC to advise you on how to use social media.

 

[mintaka]

24. Return reads like a reference to your wanting to return to this old friend but it could also be saying a deeper motivation is that you are finding the world has just gotten to be too much and that your desire to reconnect is motivated by a desire to return to simpler more familiar times, maybe even advice to withdraw from this search and reconnect with your own inner peace.

If I read these lines as a picture of your situation it appears to me that..

Hello Rosada; the situation is somehow like you have said. In this situation I should say that I do regret losing contact with him.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts as you have just gave me both hope and clarity on what to do next

 

[moss elk]

you have just gave me both hope and clarity on what to do next

You were just given false hope and muddiness.
Perhaps someone will help clarify this to you.

 

[mintaka]

You were just given false hope and muddiness.
Perhaps someone will help clarify this to you

Hello Moss Elk;

Could you please kindly tell me why false hope?

 

[moss elk]

Hello Moss Elk;

Could you please kindly tell me why false hope?

Because the reading says in at least 4 different ways not to seek him.

1-54
2-line 2
3-line 4
4-24

Every one of these four parts say the same thing individually, and also when put together as a whole.

Litttle Sister
is alone & not seeing everything
She lets that 'opportunity' (him) pass her by
She Returns home.

 

[Matali]

Hello, maybe you could throw other pieces to see... Who's the woman on Line 4 ? If it's you so much the better Take care

 

[mintaka]

Hello, maybe you could throw other pieces to see... Who's the woman on Line 4 ? If it's you so much the better Take care

Hello Matali;

I don't know who suppose to beon line 4. The person I am looking for is not an ex but a friend only so I don't know whom that other woman refers to. But I wouldn't be surprised if he was/is married, so maybe that refers to that

 

[mintaka]

Because the reading says in at least 4 different ways not to seek him.

1-54
2-line 2
3-line 4
4-24

Every one of these four parts say the same thing individually, and also when put together as a whole.

Litttle Sister
is alone & not seeing everything
She lets that 'opportunity' (him) pass her by
She Returns home.

Thank for clarifying. I will be reading them again

 

[rosada]

I think it's always important to be clear what the question is but if we were to use these hexagrams as comment as to whether she should even try to find her friend (rather than as advice as to HOW to find him, which is what she actually asked). I can see how one might interpret them to be saying "Return to your single life. You've been faithful (54.2) but now it's time to move on, knowing someone else will come along (54.4)." But I can also see how there could be an opposite interpretation and reading different opinions and interpretations is useful for learning the I Ching, which is the main purpose of onlineclarity.

54.2
A one eyed man who is able to see.
A hermit's constancy bears fruit

You mention,"I'm not sure if it really is him as there is no picture." Could this be what "A one eyed man who is able to see" is referring to?
You continue to care about your friend even though you are apart. This "constancy" will bear fruit.

54.4
The marrying maiden draws out the allotted time.
A late marriage comes in due course.

Is this line saying you've been loyal long enough, it's time to make new friends? Or is it saying that after all this time has gone by you eventually you reconnect? Or is it about you trying to find him using social media but ultimately you find another - successful! - approach?

24. Return
After a time of decay comes the turning point. The powerful light that has been banished returns. -Wilhelm

So is this the friendship returning or you going home alone? Either way it looks like things work out for you.

 

[moss elk]

Differing opinions are only natural.

But if there is a Stop-sign, red, octagonal,
in front of us all, and someone says it means "Go", then someone is wrong.
This is not a matter of opinion.

There is no "go for it"
or path of success shown in this reading.

The situation should be seen and simplified thusly:

1-querent has a desire.
2-querent offers the desire before Yi,
"how can I do this?"
3-Yi says, "you can't/shouldn't"
+all the other details.

 

[mintaka]

I think it's always important to be clear what the question is but if we were to use these hexagrams as comment as to whether she should even try to find her friend (rather than as advice as to HOW to find him, which is what she actually asked). I can see how one might interpret them to be saying "Return to your single life. You've been faithful (54.2) but now it's time to move on, knowing someone else will come along (54.4)." But I can also see how there could be an opposite interpretation and reading different opinions and interpretations is useful for learning the I Ching, which is the main purpose of onlineclarity.

54.2
A one eyed man who is able to see.
A hermit's constancy bears fruit

You mention,"I'm not sure if it really is him as there is no picture." Could this be what "A one eyed man who is able to see" is referring to?
You continue to care about your friend even though you are apart. This "constancy" will bear fruit.

54.4
The marrying maiden draws out the allotted time.
A late marriage comes in due course.

Is this line saying you've been loyal long enough, it's time to make new friends? Or is it saying that after all this time has gone by you eventually you reconnect? Or is it about you trying to find him using social media but ultimately you find another - successful! - approach?

24. Return
After a time of decay comes the turning point. The powerful light that has been banished returns. -Wilhelm

So is this the friendship returning or you going home alone? Either way it looks like things work out for you.

Hello Rosada;

Such a detailed insight. This was exactly the reason why I asked insight from the forum. At first the answer seemed to be saying "no" and then I read it again and thought it was kind of saying "yes, go for it".

To be honest as I wasn't sure how to ask the question and ended up asking with "advise me" and "how". Now that I think about it, I think I put the question wrongly. I should have probably put the question in a more concrete way instead.

 

[Cuddly_Balrog]

But if there is a Stop-sign, red, octagonal,
in front of us all, and someone says it means "Go", then someone is wrong.
This is not a matter of opinion.

In the case of a stop-sign there is little ambiguity, and no room for interpretation. With the iching there is, most of the time. Usually it’s a matter of interpretation and context.

The exercise of interpretation is part of the process necessary for the understanding of the answer. Even coming here is potentially part of the exercise. It is one of the ways a querent can seek advice so that they may, one day, advise others and grow their understanding thereby.

Anything acquired to easily is valued too cheaply, or something.

I lean towards positive interpretations, and agree with Rosada in this case.

If it were 54.6 I would agree with Moss Elk that it was a warning. 54.5 is a happy conclusion for someone, it depends on which sister you are.

Line 4 is the first line in the upper trigram, and those usually mean that things will not go smoothly. In 54.4 this situation requires patience to navigate. If you follow it through like a story, that delayed marriage could be like the one in line 5 or line 6.

I think the key is in line 54.2 which indicates that you will see clearly enough to persevere even with one eye, although not so clearly that you can tolerate distractions. It is not enough to simply wait, you need to be focused. Attention is needed to avoid the tragedy of line 6, where the empty basket and the bloodless sheep are not found until the time of the wedding. If your life is anything like mine, that is easier said than done.

This does not mean you will end up with dude, but it seems to me to indicate that, with attention, you can avoid the pitfalls that lead to 54.6.

24 could be a future return. It could also be revisiting the past. It is pretty clear that you are looking back to the past with this friend.

Anyway, my two cents!

 

[marybluesky]

Hello;

the lines advise you to look for him using the information & tools you have even if they're imperfect, and you'll find this guy, even if later than when you expect. You can't set the time but can continue searching :

"54.2: The perseverance of a solitary man furthers...54:4 A late marriage comes in due course." [Wilhelm/Baynes]

I see nothing inauspicious in the lines; plus the context is Return (24). You only need to accept that the situation isn't ideal and you've to adapt to it.

 

[diamant]

54.5 is a happy conclusion for someone, it depends on which sister you are.

A superficial man who fancies the clothes of a woman goes on to marry a different woman, as he has more to gain from her. The only happy/lucky party in this equation is the woman he doesn't marry - she's truly better off without him.

 

[mintaka]

In the case of a stop-sign there is little ambiguity, and no room for interpretation. With the iching there is, most of the time. Usually it’s a matter of interpretation and context.

The exercise of interpretation is part of the process necessary for the understanding of the answer. Even coming here is potentially part of the exercise. It is one of the ways a querent can seek advice so that they may, one day, advise others and grow their understanding thereby.

Anything acquired to easily is valued too cheaply, or something.

I lean towards positive interpretations, and agree with Rosada in this case.

If it were 54.6 I would agree with Moss Elk that it was a warning. 54.5 is a happy conclusion for someone, it depends on which sister you are.

Line 4 is the first line in the upper trigram, and those usually mean that things will not go smoothly. In 54.4 this situation requires patience to navigate. If you follow it through like a story, that delayed marriage could be like the one in line 5 or line 6.

I think the key is in line 54.2 which indicates that you will see clearly enough to persevere even with one eye, although not so clearly that you can tolerate distractions. It is not enough to simply wait, you need to be focused. Attention is needed to avoid the tragedy of line 6, where the empty basket and the bloodless sheep are not found until the time of the wedding. If your life is anything like mine, that is easier said than done.

This does not mean you will end up with dude, but it seems to me to indicate that, with attention, you can avoid the pitfalls that lead to 54.6.

24 could be a future return. It could also be revisiting the past. It is pretty clear that you are looking back to the past with this friend.

Anyway, my two cents!

Hello Cuddly_Barlog;
Thank you for sharing you two cents

Like the I Ching says I am encountering many problems as it seems impossible to find him on social media without his picture or an information that I am familiar like working place or birthday but I am still trying hoping that my persistance and will bring the result I want.

I have one question, in my case lines 54.5 and 54.6 is it important when interpreting the I Ching? Until now I only paid attention to changing lines.

 

[moss elk]

I lean towards positive interpretations, and agree with Rosada in this case.

That is a very bizzarre and inadvisable thing to do.
Some names for it include rose-colored glasses and self-delusion.


It is Better Always to stand in truth and reality & accurate perception/clarity than to lean outside of the real.

Most voices that speak about the 'ambiguity' of Yi, are the voices that don't comprehend how specific and precise it generally is. Just like it was here, this time.

Doubt me.
Hold contempt for the manner of my delivery, feel disturbed by my wake, that's all fine.
None of that changes the fact that this reading advises that the girl returns home alone.

Perhaps a subforum for answers-one-wants to hear could be started?, then those inclined to somehow stumble thtough life that way could encourage people to 'go for it" in every thread, no matter the reading.

 

[mintaka]

That is a very bizzarre and inadvisable thing to do.
Some names for it include rose-colored glasses and self-delusion.


It is Better Always to stand in truth and reality & accurate perception/clarity than to lean outside of the real.

Most voices that speak about the 'ambiguity' of Yi, are the voices that don't comprehend how specific and precise it generally is. Just like it was here, this time.

Doubt me.
Hold contempt for the manner of my delivery, that's all fine.
None of that changes the fact that this reading advises that the girl returns home alone.

Perhaps a subforum for answers-one-wants to hear could be started?, then those inclined to somehow stumble thtough life that way could encourage people to 'go for it" in every thread, no matter the reading.

Hello Moss Elk;

I know that you answer is not directly for me but still contains your opinion and I appreciate it.

I would like to say that even though according to your interpretation I Ching tells me that I will be "returning alone". I am fine with it however I believe that I should at least try my best, even knowing that the outcome won't be the one I hope. At least with this, my mind and my heart will be at ease, even if I can't find him or if I find him and he refuses to talk with me.

At the end of the day, even if for my own selfish reasons, I would be doing my best whatever the end result is. But this doesn't mean that I should cease my hope and positivity. I believe in the power of thoughts and it's connection to the universe.

 

[Cuddly_Balrog]

A superficial man who fancies the clothes of a woman goes on to marry a different woman, as he has more to gain from her. The only happy/lucky party in this equation is the woman he doesn't marry - she's truly better off without him.

54.5 is about a person who chooses the “less attractive” option. Marrying the woman with less fine robes. Which sounds like someone who is not superficial.

Legge: The fifth line, magnetic, reminds us of the marrying of the younger sister of King Ti-yi, when the sleeves of the princess were not equal to those of the still younger sister who accompanied her in an inferior capacity. The case suggests the thought of the moon almost full. There will be good fortune.​

​

Wilhelm/Baynes: The sovereign I gave his daughter in marriage. The embroidered garments of the princess were not as gorgeous as those of the serving maid. The moon that is nearly full brings good fortune.​

​

Blofeld: The Emperor's second marriageable daughter wore regal garments less splendid that those of her bridesmaid. [The implication is that the princess showed better taste than her maid in not dressing too grandly. We must be on our guard against ostentation.] Close upon the full moon comes good fortune!​

​

Liu: Emperor I gives his daughter in marriage. The embroidered dress of the princess is not as splendid as that of the concubine. The moon is nearly full. Good fortune.​

​

Ritsema/Karcher: The supreme burgeoning Converting Maidenhood. One's chief's sleeves: One's junior-sister's sleeves not thus fine. The moon almost facing, significant.​

​

Shaughnessy: Di Yi marries off the maiden: the primary wife's sleeves are not as fine as her younger sister's sleeves; the day's moon is past full; auspicious.​

​

Cleary (1): The emperor marries off his younger sister; the attire of the empress is not as good as the attire of the young wife. The moon is nearly full. Good fortune.​

​

Cleary (2): ... The attire of the lady is not as good as that of the junior wives. The moon is almost full. This is auspicious.​

​

Wu: Di Yi married off his younger sister. Her dress was not so elaborate as her younger sister’s. The moon was almost full. Auspicious. [ This was considered proper, for what was proper was the virtuous union, not the wedding dress.]​

Every translation seems to indicate 54.5 is positive. I agree with your interpretation often. I just don’t see that interpretation in this case. Which is why I said it was positive for one of the women.

As always my 2 cents.

 

[Cuddly_Balrog]

Most voices that speak about the 'ambiguity' of Yi, are the voices that don't comprehend how specific and precise it generally is. Just like it was here, this time.

There are so many translations of each given line that is obviously not even a drop of ambiguity.

Obviously.

You can doubt my positivity all you want. You can choose to live your life in a world full of darkness. That is your business. Since you live near the Great Lakes, you are free to believe what you like. You may even disagree with me .

However that there is some ambiguity in the gestalt of the translations is not my two cents, it is the result of both the ancient Chinese language, and the various individuals’ scholarly investigations that have translated the text.

 

[Cuddly_Balrog]

I have one question, in my case lines 54.5 and 54.6 is it important when interpreting the I Ching? Until now I only paid attention to changing lines.

The only ones that matter for your question are the changing ones and the resultant hexagram. I just look to the other lines to provide some context for the changing lines.

The changing lines are your actual answer.

 

[moss elk]

There are so many translations of each given line that it is obviously not even a drop of ambiguity.

Obviously.

The Ambiguity and ignorance are in the eye of the beholder, Yi is not Roschach or Barnum!
It refers to very specific things.

Ambiguity? No, that goes away with a few years (decades?) of serious study and experiential observation.
(Ambiguity? only if one makes the mistake of lumping together every person who ever wrote about Yi and then thinks that their words all have equal merit.)

Confusion? Yes.

The explanation for that is, of course,
that some translators are way off the mark and some are accurate, some translate it through the lens of their religion.
(some are insane and drug addled ramblings! Carol Anthony, Dekorne anyone?)
It's really that simple.

And, yes of course the cultural and psychological lenses of the individual translators are a factor in comprehension and miscomprehension.

Get a good translation like Bradford Hatchers Yi-Jing one and two.
You can see the original Chinese there with the multiple meanings for each polysemus word. When you do that you'll be able to identify the numerous mistakes people make, that categorize them into authors one shouldn't bother wasting their time with, if clarity is the goal.

 

[ZeroPoint]

Differing opinions are only natural.

But if there is a Stop-sign, red, octagonal,
in front of us all, and someone says it means "Go", then someone is wrong.
This is not a matter of opinion.

There is no "go for it"
or path of success shown in this reading.

The situation should be seen and simplified thusly:

1-querent has a desire.
2-querent offers the desire before Yi,
"how can I do this?"
3-Yi says, "you can't/shouldn't"
+all the other details.

I've heard it said that if you ask Yi "how" to do something, the assumption is that it should be done... and that isn't a good way to start a relationship reading. A false assumption invalidates clarity on the response. If you shouldn't do it, there is no good way to do it.

 

[rosada]

Did your friend go to college? If so perhaps there is an alumnae association that would know his current address.
I agree with your sense that even if you are unable to locate him you’ll feel better about it knowing that you at least tried. Perhaps 54.4 is saying something like that, like “give it x amount of time and if you still have no leads move on.”
I lost track of a friend once - a boy I met at a church summer camp. When camp was over he wrote and said he loved me and my mother freaked out ( I was twelve and he was 15) so I never wrote back. I always wondered what happened to him. Years later I met a friend of my sister’s who reminded me of the guy. He and his wife and I had dinner together and they told me their life story, how they had met at a church summer camp (!) and the life they’d had together. A really fine couple. It seemed to me I was somehow being shown what had become of my old crush, and that like this man he’d found a good partner and had had a good life. I was particularly comforted as I got to see that this friend of my sister’s was high energy, brilliant (and ultimately exhausting) like my friend had been and that his wife was way more patient and understanding of such a soul than I could ever have been. So I took this as a sign that things had worked out for my fellow too, and to feel it was best for both of us that we had gone our separate ways. So I tell you this in hopes if you don’t reconnect you’ll come to recognize it’s all good the way it is.

 

[mintaka]

Did your friend go to college? If so perhaps there is an alumnae association that would know his current address.
I agree with your sense that even if you are unable to locate him you’ll feel better about it knowing that you at least tried. Perhaps 54.4 is saying something like that, like “give it x amount of time and if you still have no leads move on.”
I lost track of a friend once - a boy I met at a church summer camp. When camp was over he wrote and said he loved me and my mother freaked out ( I was twelve and he was 15) so I never wrote back. I always wondered what happened to him. Years later I met a friend of my sister’s who reminded me of the guy. He and his wife and I had dinner together and they told me their life story, how they had met at a church summer camp (!) and the life they’d had together. A really fine couple. It seemed to me I was somehow being shown what had become of my old crush, and that like this man he’d found a good partner and had had a good life. I was particularly comforted as I got to see that this friend of my sister’s was high energy, brilliant (and ultimately exhausting) like my friend had been and that his wife was way more patient and understanding of such a soul than I could ever have been. So I took this as a sign that things had worked out for my fellow too, and to feel it was best for both of us that we had gone our separate ways. So I tell you this in hopes if you don’t reconnect you’ll come to recognize it’s all good the way it is.

Hi Rosada;

It's amazing that sometimes how universe one way or another helps us to ease our minds. I am glad that you got your answer from the universe.

About the college, I know that he attended a university but the thing is I never pay attention to these type of details not that they not important but for me name of schools etc doesn't mean anything, I don't even know the name of school my 20 years of friend went as well. Don't get me wrong you may think that a good friend should know but for me name of the school is not important but ask me his or any friend's profession, favourite song, book, movie I will know it.