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Asked for advice regarding a serious mother-daughter conflict: 38.1.5.6 changing to 47

rose1901

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Hello, I'm new to the forum. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

I'm a 42-year-old woman who has experienced a lifelong love/hate relationship with my mom, now 65.

I have spent the last year living down the street from her, after living 1,000 miles away for most of my adult life, in the hopes of repairing our troubled relationship and cementing a bond of love with her. I was partly inspired to do this after a really impactful psylocibin journey. I have tried to have compassion for her, to put aside all the pain, forgive, and create something new.

Unfortunately, after a pretty smooth year, we had an awful fight two days ago. I made an innocuous comment, my mom took it personally, lashed out in the way she always has, which I found incredibly hurtful, and I responded with some harsh words. She retorted with harsh words of her own. I don't know if we can recover from this one.

I asked Yi: "What is your advice for me regarding the situation with my mother?" and got 38.1.5.6 changing to 47.

I'm interpreting 38.1.5.6 as basically just lay low, do nothing for now, the situation will resolve itself in time; also that I am seeing the worst in my mom but we are actually more connected and more alike than I am perceiving right now. ?

What do you all think? Do you have other interpretations or insights? I'm actually really suffering because it did seem like we were doing really well and had made so much progress in our relationship before this recent blowup. She is getting older and I really don't want to be estranged from her for the rest of our lives.

Thank you.
 
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Hi rose1901, I want to say, first of all, I have had a very difficult relationship with my mother, have worked hard to stay in contact and always stay connected with her on her terms so there isn't conflict, and also today our weekly phone conversation went horribly awry. I've been working with the I Ching today and just so mad at myself for letting the conversation go wrong. (She's a narcissist and I know by now how to avoid conflict, and I failed today to just shut up.)

I think your interpretation is accurate as far as 38. You feel isolated and maybe abandoned (47) and the conflict feels awful, but from your changing lines it seems as if the ship will mostly right itself. Remember that even in the best relationships and healthy families, people disagree, sometimes fight, sometimes say hurtful things, and it's not the end of the relationship. I know it feels like it will be when your relationship feels always precarious to begin with.

I'm 63, and mostly can't believe I'm still struggling with my relationship to my mother at this age, but so it is. Please don't be too hard on yourself. You've taken on a tough commitment. Perhaps ask the I Ching if there's an action you should take to remedy the situation?
 
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becalm

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Yes I think your take on this is spot on rose1901....Personally I had no relationships with my mother for the last 30 years of her life - she died at 90 in 2019. Best thing I ever did.
Yes it's sad when that happens but you grieve the loss and move on. It was definitely her loss not mine.
My son, who's 35 now, just sent me an awful letter telling me he thinks I'm a d....head. Our relationship has never been great and he's toxic. Christmas 2019 I walked away from that relationship too - another positive step I made in my life.
You don't have to have relationships with people just because they're are your family. Their issues with me are not mine, they are their own issues in their Heart.
 

rosada

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38 is about sisters living under the same roof but ultimately destined to move on to their different life paths. I've had it come up in several readings involving parents and adult children and I think it is pointing to how the dynamic here is not between parent and child where one party is supposed to be the caregiver and the other the obedient dependent, but rather it is more like two siblings who may share a common history but they aren't expected to agree on everything and eventually they must pursue lives of their own. "There comes a point where you can no longer find yourself as part of a group; you want to assert your separate identity or explore something new, outside the safe familiar walls," and "A noble one both harmonizes and separates" Hilary. So first of all I think the advice is that you recognize how your falling out was probably something like a fight between sisters (Which if you don't have a sister, trust me on this, these sorts of fights can be the nastiest most underhanded of all), and also how to let it go.

38.1 Don't chase after the horse - emotions ran away with both of you two, don't try to make it right though, just let let things go and eventually everyone calms down. (edited from first posting as I misread and thought you got line 2.)

38.5 Regrets vanish. Your ancestor bites through the skin. Why would going on be wrong?
Wow, how positive. I wonder if your mom is the ancestor and she reaches out to you? Don't be slow to show willingness to try again.

38.6 Going on alone. Seeing pigs covered in muck. The chariot loaded with devils. At first drawing the bow. Then relaxing the bow. Not robbers at all but matrimonial allies. Going on meets the rain, and so there is good fortune.

Interesting, sort of a reverse of line 5. As if the IC is saying in 38.5 you could reconnect or in 38.6 you can go on alone, either way seems okay but it does look as though there's a good chance of things calming down and not feeling as bad as they do right now. Maybe that as you do go on alone you can get a perspective on Mom that allows you to see her in a more favorable light. Like you realize when she said all those horrid things she was only trying to offer constructive criticism? Ha! But seriously, a little time and distance may prove helpful.

47. Confined, creating success. Constancy of a great person, good fortune.Words not trusted. The noble one carries out the mandate, fulfills her aspiration.
47 is a really hard spot to land on. It gives advice for how to move forward when you've been trying and trying to dig out of a hole and you feel like you're just not getting anywhere. But never fear, if you just keep on keeping on eventually you are able to fulfill your goal of having a good, clear connection with Mom.

My interpretation of all of this is that while you are feeling devastated by this recent outburst, if you are able to just let it be for a bit a path forward opens up. I suspect your Mom is accustomed to her moods and doesn't experience these rages as being as debilitating as you do. She may be her old jolly self the next time you meet in the lane and be ready to play nice again. Probably best you not totally let down your guard and think the old patterns wont continue to resurface - "words [should] not be trusted" - but also you can know you don't have to be annihilated by them.

So 38, don't make too much of the incident - her life and yours are on separate paths - and 47, don't give up.
 
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diamant

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What is your advice for me regarding the situation with my mother? 38.1.5.6 > 47

38.1
if you lose your horse don't chase after it - who is the horse here? Are you helping her practically? If yes then you are the horse, the serving strong animal, and she won't try to reconciliate. The line also advises when one meets with evil/hateful people, not to lay blame on them (I'm assuming because they'll become mad at you again).
38.5 the ancestor bites through skin/flesh. A painful and cruel line. You know what she's like. If you proceed to approach her, how can you blame her? You will have walked straight into her teeth.
38.6 one of you sees the other as a complete piece of merde and a devil. Quite a cryptic line, in which people finally speak. So, after initial silence, she'll bite you some more, let you know you're crap - but in the end somehow this will be sorted between you. Bandits bandits marry and copulate. I have no idea what this might mean in this specific case, other than a passing thought that she is copulating up your life.

Once all the lines of your fall-out/opposition have played out, you'll feel entrapped and exhausted.
 

rose1901

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Hi rose1901, I want to say, first of all, I have had a very difficult relationship with my mother, have worked hard to stay in contact and always stay connected with her on her terms so there isn't conflict, and also today our weekly phone conversation went horribly awry. I've been working with the I Ching today and just so mad at myself for letting the conversation go wrong. (She's a narcissist and I know by now how to avoid conflict, and I failed today to just shut up.)

I think your interpretation is accurate as far as 38. You feel isolated and maybe abandoned (47) and the conflict feels awful, but from your changing lines it seems as if the ship will mostly right itself. Remember that even in the best relationships and healthy families, people disagree, sometimes fight, sometimes say hurtful things, and it's not the end of the relationship. I know it feels like it will be when your relationship feels always precarious to begin with.

I'm 63, and mostly can't believe I'm still struggling with my relationship to my mother at this age, but so it is. Please don't be too hard on yourself. You've taken on a tough commitment. Perhaps ask the I Ching if there's an action you should take to remedy the situation?
Thanks so much for your empathetic and encouraging words. It sounds like are situations are so similar. My mom is also a narcissist, and I have become pretty adept at letting things roll off my back in order to stay connected, but the other day I, too, "failed." I think I haven't yet mastered the art of *not feeling hurt* while also letting things roll off my back. It's more like I suppress my hurt rather than manage not to feel hurt...and then eventually it comes out. Perhaps you can relate. I hope you won't stay mad at yourself for your own recent trouble with your mom, but have compassion for yourself. It takes an enormous amount of energy and strength to walk on those perpetual eggshells and avoid conflict, and it's understandable to slip up once in a while. I'll ask the I Ching about taking action, as you suggest. Thanks again.
 

rose1901

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38 is about sisters living under the same roof but ultimately destined to move on to their different life paths. I've had it come up in several readings involving parents and adult children and I think it is pointing to how the dynamic here is not between parent and child where one party is supposed to be the caregiver and the other the obedient dependent, but rather it is more like two siblings who may share a common history but they aren't expected to agree on everything and eventually they must pursue lives of their own. "There comes a point where you can no longer find yourself as part of a group; you want to assert your separate identity or explore something new, outside the safe familiar walls," and "A noble one both harmonizes and separates" Hilary. So first of all I think the advice is that you recognize how your falling out was probably something like a fight between sisters (Which if you don't have a sister, trust me on this, these sorts of fights can be the nastiest most underhanded of all), and also how to let it go.

38.1 Don't chase after the horse - emotions ran away with both of you two, don't try to make it right though, just let let things go and eventually everyone calms down. (edited from first posting as I misread and thought you got line 2.)

38.5 Regrets vanish. Your ancestor bites through the skin. Why would going on be wrong?
Wow, how positive. I wonder if your mom is the ancestor and she reaches out to you? Don't be slow to show willingness to try again.

38.6 Going on alone. Seeing pigs covered in muck. The chariot loaded with devils. At first drawing the bow. Then relaxing the bow. Not robbers at all but matrimonial allies. Going on meets the rain, and so there is good fortune.

Interesting, sort of a reverse of line 5. As if the IC is saying in 38.5 you could reconnect or in 38.6 you can go on alone, either way seems okay but it does look as though there's a good chance of things calming down and not feeling as bad as they do right now. Maybe that as you do go on alone you can get a perspective on Mom that allows you to see her in a more favorable light. Like you realize when she said all those horrid things she was only trying to offer constructive criticism? Ha! But seriously, a little time and distance may prove helpful.

47. Confined, creating success. Constancy of a great person, good fortune.Words not trusted. The noble one carries out the mandate, fulfills her aspiration.
47 is a really hard spot to land on. It gives advice for how to move forward when you've been trying and trying to dig out of a hole and you feel like you're just not getting anywhere. But never fear, if you just keep on keeping on eventually you are able to fulfill your goal of having a good, clear connection with Mom.

My interpretation of all of this is that while you are feeling devastated by this recent outburst, if you are able to just let it be for a bit a path forward opens up. I suspect your Mom is accustomed to her moods and doesn't experience these rages as being as debilitating as you do. She may be her old jolly self the next time you meet in the lane and be ready to play nice again. Probably best you not totally let down your guard and think the old patterns wont continue to resurface - "words [should] not be trusted" - but you can realize you don't need to be annihilated by them.

So 38, don't make too much of the incident - her life and yours are on separate paths - and 47, don't give up.
Wow, Rosada, this is so incredibly insightful. Thank you, thank you for taking the time to share this with me.

What you say about 38 is so interesting, because my mom has always been more like a sister than a nurturing mother figure. In fact, we were both sitting beside my dying grandmother, who is in hospice, while the fight happened. Needless to say, emotions were already inflamed. And my grandmother has always been more like a true "mother" for me. I've always wished for my mother to be more like a mother to me than a sister.

Regarding 38.6, I wonder if this could be speaking to the fact that I'm about to move across the country by myself in just 3 weeks, to finish a grad school program in NYC. My mom and I have always known I'd be leaving at this time, and now the time is coming and it's just so heartbreaking that we are having this trouble right as I'm about to leave. But as you say maybe going off alone will bring a clearer perspective, though the thought of leaving while in conflict with her is so painful.

I wonder if 47 could also be speaking to the NYC experience that awaits me. The grad school program is in Creative Writing and is deeply tied to my lifelong dreams of finding some success as a novelist and poet.

Thank you again for weighing in; I am so grateful.
 

rose1901

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What is your advice for me regarding the situation with my mother? 38.1.5.6 > 47

38.1
if you lose your horse don't chase after it - who is the horse here? Are you helping her practically? If yes then you are the horse, the serving strong animal, and she won't try to reconciliate. The line also advises when one meets with evil/hateful people, not to lay blame on them (I'm assuming because they'll become mad at you again).
38.5 the ancestor bites through skin/flesh. A painful and cruel line. You know what she's like. If you proceed to approach her, how can you blame her? You will have walked straight into her teeth.
38.6 one of you sees the other as a complete piece of merde and a devil. Quite a cryptic line, in which people finally speak. So, after initial silence, she'll bite you some more, let you know you're crap - but in the end somehow this will be sorted between you. Bandits bandits marry and copulate. I have no idea what this might mean in this specific case, other than a passing thought that she is copulating up your life.

Once all the lines of your fall-out/opposition have played out, you'll feel entrapped and exhausted.
Thanks for sharing this, Diamant. This is tough to read because I always want to believe things (and people) are better than they seem, yet I can feel the truth in these interpretations as well as in the others.

I guess I would be the horse here as I've been doing my best to help my mom care for my ailing grandma for the last year, and have also helped her with her own health issues.

If things will be sorted in the end, could it be that she and I are the bandits who marry and copulate? Could this be speaking to the fact that even if things are sorted the relationship will remain unhealthy?
 
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diamant

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If things will be sorted in the end, could it be that she and I are the bandits who marry and copulate? Could this be speaking to the fact that even if things are sorted the relationship will remain unhealthy?
I think you've nailed it here.

I feel for you. It's a personal decision to keep relating, and it's far from easy. In my experience such people don't ever change, but if this proves to be an exception please come back and tell us. I'll be very happy to hear I was wrong.
 

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