Asking about other person's motivation - what does he want from me? (Hex 1.4)

[mmvvdd80]

Is it possible to take it easy, and do other things you love and enjoy, while he is sorting himself out?

Actually I have no other choice. But there are 2 considerations about which I'm still unclear:

1) If there's a way not to burn bridges, to leave the door open. I mean ways of handling it in my heart without damage. The road of waiting and hoping leads to nowhere obviously. But it's very easy to fool myself, to pretend living my own life when actually sublimating it with hidden waiting. I'm definitely capable of doing it for years!

2) It affects how I look on the past events and what scent it gives to my current days. Being angry, disappointed and bitter helps keeping the course of silence and independance, but it's painfull, depressing and killing all the joy of life. As well as any opportunity of reunion in future. But hope is a dangerous trap as well. I wish I found some moderate approach. Like living by the principles of Tao

 

[Trojina]

Why, because I love her too. I'm childless myself and it was a pure joy to have her in my life. She's a wonderful person. We've had a lot of plans to implement in this year, so I felt awfully as if I somehow betrayed her. Then some firend of mine suggested I could keep the contact with her. Which delighted me.

As for his need for a woman to be submissive, it may be strange but it's quite understandable, with his past experience. I'd say it'd be a great development for me to learn how to overcome my ruling nature. It's not erotic for me, to be a ruler, and there's no beauty in forcing my will outside a bedroom as well.

Crossed posts re daughter.

Why does it have to about who is ruling who anyway. I don't find it even faintly understandable that you have to kowtow to him because of his inadequacy as a man and I'm afraid to me he really does sound like quite an inadequate person still bitching on about his wife and leaving you hanging...but you know him so you know best.

 

[Trojina]

The song the situation reminds me of

[video=youtube_share;2lGzJwksSv4]https://youtu.be/2lGzJwksSv4?t=5[/video]


Lyrics



"A Little Time"

I need a little time to think it over
I need a little space just on my own
I need a little time to find my freedom
I need a little

Funny how quick the milk turned sour, isn't it, isn't it?
Your face has been looking like that for hours, hasn't it, hasn't it?
Promises, promises turn to dust
Wedding bells just turn to rust
Trust into mistrust

I need a little room to find myself
I need a little space to work it out
I need a little room all alone
I need a little

You need a little room for your big head, don't you, don't you?
You need a little space for a thousand beds, won't you, won't you?
Lips that promise fear the worst
Tongue so sharp the bubble burst
Just into unjust

I've had a little time to find the truth
Now I've had a little room to check what's wrong
I've had a little time and I still love you
I've had a little

You had a little time and you had a little fun, didn't you, didn't you?
While you had yours do you think I had none, do you, do you?
The freedom that you wanted back is yours for good, I hope you're glad
Sad into unsad

I had a little time to think it over
I had a little room to work it out
I've found a little courage to call it off
I've had a little time

I've had a little time
I've had a little time
I've had a little time

 

[mmvvdd80]

Haha, that's great. Didn't know the forum allows to post media! Thanks a lot for it and especially for your advice. It is very precise and reasonable.

He owes you a full explanation of why it ended he can't just go on using you to make himself feel better about the fact that he has actually taken you out of your daughter's life.

Golden words!! I agree totally. I think I'll demand explanation some day, but first I have to get myself a bit invulnerable. But you're right. The absence of direct information on why he left me makes me constantly see myself as a poor partner, bad woman, not feminine enough. Though he wrote that I'm a wonderfull and such. And that he's not freezed on me at all, that's why he needs space. To make a decision outside of my charming spells.

I think people talking about his last wife being 'dominant' and 'controlling' is quite funny because she probably wasn't at all you can hardly go just by his description. She left him so he's more likely to be derogatory about her.

Haha, that's brilliant skepticism. You're right. I only know of his marriage from his words. A asked about his ex wife personality from our friends, and their vision of her wasn't as of a dominant woman.

 

[mmvvdd80]

The song's lyrics - I wish. The best possible outcome!

Why does it have to about who is ruling who anyway. I don't find it even faintly understandable that you have to kowtow to him because of his inadequacy as a man and I'm afraid to me he really does sound like quite an inadequate person still bitching on about his wife and leaving you hanging...but you know him so you know best.

You know it's just my vision of why he left me. He's been total gentleman with me, he served and tolerated, this is how he is. He's unable to express an attitude of "please do as I like" even closely. Still he's hinted it. I know his ideals of women, I know what disgusts him.

But you're right, he's weird and unexperienced in relashionship. Maybe he just used the chance of me being reachable in the dark times of divorce, I helped him to avoid loneliness as well as to handle his household. Now he's learned to do it all himself and maybe just wants to go free and have a taste of what it really means to be a single man of a prime years.

The question is how to free myself from him. Even if we'll come together in future, now the only way is to go on by myself.

I mean, since Yi suggests that to initiate further contact with him is to deny him the only thing he asks from me. I've taken a vow of silence (of not comminucating). For 2 weeks. For a start )

 

[Trojina]

You know it's just my vision of why he left me. He's been total gentleman with me, he served and tolerated, this is how he is. He's unable to express an attitude of "please do as I like" even closely. Still he's hinted it. I know his ideals of women, I know what disgusts him.

It's funny sometimes when answering posts one gets a really strong impression of a person in the reading. I don't take these too seriously, I'm not that psychic or anything, but while I was just washing the dishes I thought 'he's spoiled, he was spoiled like an only child might be'. I wonder what his relationship with his mother was like given he seemingly has opinions about women as if they were some special breed of animal not human like him. Also I know the stuff I am coming out with about him isn't based on reality because you have the knowledge of the reality I don't. If he's been a gentleman that's good but for you just saying he needs space is very hard and it's going to make you question every aspect of your personality and wasn't very considerate of him.

My overall impression of you is that you are meeting this situation in a very calm and temperate way, in a 62ish way really taking things as they come

But you're right, he's weird and unexperienced in relashionship. Maybe he just used the chance of me being reachable in the dark times of divorce, I helped him to avoid loneliness as well as to handle his household. Now he's learned to do it all himself and maybe just wants to go free and have a taste of what it really means to be a single man of a prime years.

If there is anyone else on the scene I'd wonder how long it would last because of his emotional weirdness.

The question is how to free myself from him. Even if we'll come together in future, now the only way is to go on by myself.

I mean, since Yi suggests that to initiate further contact with him is to deny him the only thing he asks from me. I've taken a vow of silence (of not comminucating). For 2 weeks. For a start )

Do you mean the 62.4 cast ? yes I think one really has to pay attention in 62.4, there's a reality there one has to meet and have full caution about. I think you asked how to help him but I think you are better thinking much more about how to help yourself. I think this line is a caution about simply going on as if nothing had changed. You need to receive the message here and act on it which would seem to me to be to do with you doing as he has asked and staying away. Very very difficult and if you feel anger I think that is perfectly understandable because you invested in this guy and suddenly your investment is as if it counted as nothing if it can just be broken off like that. Anyone would be angry. So I think if you do stay away you will need strategies to help with episodes of anger - you did mention vegetable gardening which I imagine would be perfect activity right now though it's not the right time of year maybe.


You'll find anger and bitterness, self blame comes in waves, it rises then falls and you have to manage it somehow. But if you keep in mind your overall purpose, which is doing as he wanted, staying away, holding your own space and integrity I think you would get through it, it's just a few weeks.

 

[diamanda]

The question is how to free myself from him. Even if we'll come together in future, now the only way is to go on by myself.

How to free yourself from a man who doesn't want a serious relationship with you, but tags on your heart-strings by using your love for his daughter?

Perhaps by considering what it will be like to not free yourself from him.

If you don't free yourself, but pine and wait for him, he will most certainly continue to play you along. Keeping you on the bench for whenever he can't find others to sleep with. If you come together in future, you will most probably, at some point, request a relationship again. But now he knows the trick - he will just call you dominant ("like his ex wife", bah, what rubbish), he'll say that he needs a break etc etc etc. Before you know it, you will be not 41, but 51. More broken than before, with even lower self-esteem.

The only one benefitting from crushing your self-esteem is the guy. In this manner, he can keep you on a leash forever. By now he has figured out you're kind enough to love his daughter and to 'manage his household' (!). "He hasn't frozen on you" - this is yet another dangling carrot. It means that he might need sex with you in the future again (if he runs dry elsewhere). He has figured out you're benevolent enough to take the BS he tells you at face value. And in the meantime he's dolling himself up, which of course means he's got someone new, or in any case he's on the lookout big time.

Run, is all I can say. Save yourself from this needless torture.
Start being sociable, do something, anything except hang around this guy and his daughter.

 

[mmvvdd80]

Hi diamanda and Trojina, thank you for your thoughts, I'm very grateful you reminded me of the healthy way to respond to my situation. I was like that myself in the beginning, illusions and fixation on stayng in touch with him came later as crunches to avoid inevitable, of course.

Diamanda, your picture of what it would be had he decided to not deny himself of my presence... I know some people who existed like this, like pets, for years. It's terrible. Any chaos of loneliness would be better.
You know, yesterday night he wrote me small-talkingly about his business and tiredness and new guitar adventures. Just when lucky people go to sleep embracing their beloved ones he wrote me, and I answered neutrally and in friendly manner, not trying to prolong the dialog. But I was unsettled completely. I asked Yi 3 questions, the standard chain of detalization.
1. What should I understand regarding this event (19.2.6 -> 27)
2. What if I initiate further chat myself tomorrow (30.2.5.6 -> 43)
3. What if I continue my communication fasting (63.6 -> 37)

There seemed to be some promises in the first 2 of them. Approach, flame, return, nourishment (though it's unclear who whose food is), still I've chosen the last one, speaking of the end of the existing cycle and the chaos of new beginning.

Don't know how you see the connections between hexagrams so intuitively. Maybe one has to know hexagram texts and essence really well or maybe I just lack imagination. I hope it can be developed.

 

[mmvvdd80]

It's funny sometimes when answering posts one gets a really strong impression of a person in the reading. I don't take these too seriously, I'm not that psychic or anything, but while I was just washing the dishes I thought 'he's spoiled, he was spoiled like an only child might be'. I wonder what his relationship with his mother was like given he seemingly has opinions about women as if they were some special breed of animal not human like him. Also I know the stuff I am coming out with about him isn't based on reality because you have the knowledge of the reality I don't. If he's been a gentleman that's good but for you just saying he needs space is very hard and it's going to make you question every aspect of your personality and wasn't very considerate of him.

Amazing how you see it all just through! Yes, he's the only child. He adores his mother, they're very close, while he and his mother both have a bad relationship with his father. He's always been groomed by women. Actually moved from his mother to his wife's care without any pause. He never machine-washed his clothes before the divorce. And still he's awfully chauvinistic. Even checks who's behind a wheel in a traffic jam if somebody drives imperfectly. He's sure it'll be a woman. He looked for a wife having his mother as a model (he confessed himself). They are both goddesses for him, I suppose.
Still I'm sure he'll always have women's attention. I felt as a goddess myself for 2 years of being with him
Well... I have no intention of witnessing how he goes on.

Do you mean the 62.4 cast ? yes I think one really has to pay attention in 62.4, there's a reality there one has to meet and have full caution about. I think you asked how to help him but I think you are better thinking much more about how to help yourself. I think this line is a caution about simply going on as if nothing had changed.

Thanks, I'll have to think it over. To the question "How I can help myself" I got 50.1.2 -> 30. I understand that I have to get rid of old spoiled stuff and fill myself with new life, though the role of #30 is unclear.

My overall impression of you is that you are meeting this situation in a very calm and temperate way, in a 62ish way really taking things as they come

I wish! It's my idea of survival, of watitng for his return, than gave me strenght to control myself and go strategic.
The first wave was horror, grief, rage and mental and body sickness (hospital, still recovering). It really takes me 1-1.5 years to stabilize myself again. And the memory of my previous period of loneliness (3 years after divorce) is still raw and frightening.
Having someone to care for, to embrace, to love is a luxury after all. It's difficult return to a monk's ways again...

 

[mmvvdd80]

It's funny sometimes when answering posts one gets a really strong impression of a person in the reading. I don't take these too seriously, I'm not that psychic or anything, but while I was just washing the dishes I thought 'he's spoiled, he was spoiled like an only child might be'. I wonder what his relationship with his mother was like given he seemingly has opinions about women as if they were some special breed of animal not human like him. Also I know the stuff I am coming out with about him isn't based on reality because you have the knowledge of the reality I don't. If he's been a gentleman that's good but for you just saying he needs space is very hard and it's going to make you question every aspect of your personality and wasn't very considerate of him.

Amazing how you see it all just through! Yes, he's only child. He adores his mother, they're very close, while he and his mother both have a bad relationship with his father. He's always been groomed by women. Actually moved from his mother to his wife's care without any pause. He never machine-washed his clothes before the divorce. And still he's awfully chauvinistic. Even checks who's behind a wheel in a traffic jam if somebody drives imperfectly. He's sure it'll be a woman. He looked for a wife having his mother as a model (he confessed himself). So they are both goddesses for him, I suppose.
Still I'm sure he's always have women's attention.
Well... I have no intention of witnessing any of it.

Do you mean the 62.4 cast ? yes I think one really has to pay attention in 62.4, there's a reality there one has to meet and have full caution about. I think you asked how to help him but I think you are better thinking much more about how to help yourself. I think this line is a caution about simply going on as if nothing had changed.

Thanks, I'll have to think it over. To the question "How I can help myself" I got 50.1.2 -> 30. I understand that I have to get rid of old spoiled stuff and full myself with new life, though the role of #30 is unclear.

My overall impression of you is that you are meeting this situation in a very calm and temperate way, in a 62ish way really taking things as they come

I wish! It was my idea of survival, of watitng for his return, that gave me strength to control myself and go strategic.
The first wave was horror, grief, rage and mental and body sickness (hospital, still recovering). It really takes me 1-1.5 years to stabilize myself in such occasions. The abruptness of this case is the worst part. Previous breakups were expected, there were conflicts and discussions.
And the memory of my previous period of loneliness (3 years after divorce) is still raw and frightening. Having someone to care for, to embrace, to love is a luxury after all. It's difficult return to a monk's ways again...

 

[mmvvdd80]

Still I agree with MeltingPot too. We all have the right to take a pause, to leave someone heartbreaked, to move on. Except of parents of children I suppose...

I wonder if there's a way of doing it without wounding your partner. I doubt it.

This ex of mine, he decided that the best way is to pull it nicely to the very end. He's a collectioner by nature, so memories should be kept clear of shadows.

Some people talked a lot, trying to explain, to get an agreement from me that a breakup is the best outcome.
I'd be glad if your shared your thoughts on this topic

 

[marybluesky]

How I can help myself 50.1.2 -> 30

To the question "How I can help myself" I got 50.1.2 -> 30. I understand that I have to get rid of old spoiled stuff and full myself with new life, though the role of #30 is unclear.

Hex 50, Cauldron: "The superior man makes his destiny firm with a correct position." The cauldron also indicates spiritual transformation that leads to supreme good fortune; and you have the means for it.

Line 1: "A cauldron overturned by its legs -- it is beneficial to clean out the stagnating matter." What is the stagnating matter? What is that your life should be purged of? What blocks your growth? You have to find and get rid of it.

Line 2: "The cauldron is filled with food. My associates are jealous, but they cannot harm me. Good fortune."
You are resourceful. Don't allow your "associate(s)" who aren't grateful of your resources to disturb you. (Are your associates the "stagnating matters" of the first line??)

Hex 30 is Clarity: "The Symbol of Brightness and of Separateness, Flaming Beauty, Radiance".
By following the advice of lines above, you go through the auspicious transformation that leads to the recovery of your radiance. You will be able to free yourself of some mediocre elements in your life. That paves your way to new growth: "Perseverance furthers. It brings success. Care of the cow brings good fortune." "A great man perpetuates the light and illuminates the four corners of the universe. "

Good luck!

 

[mmvvdd80]

Hi marybluesky, thanks for the analysis. So you see the second hex as how things would become if I successfully applied instructions given in lines. I could also think of #30 as Dependency, an unwanted condition where one is unable to live (to shine and produce luminance) without another (person or resource). Following this line of thought the whole cast can be also seen as transformation of a dependency...

But I'm quite unexperienced with I Ching. Having a technical occupation to make my living I definitely lack intuition and visual thinking. Will look at the cast and my current sutuation through your approach.

 

[Trojina]

Hi marybluesky, thanks for the analysis. So you see the second hex as how things would become if I successfully applied instructions given in lines. I could also think of #30 as Dependency, an unwanted condition where one is unable to live (to shine and produce luminance) without another (person or resource). Following this line of thought the whole cast can be also seen as transformation of a dependency...

But I'm quite unexperienced with I Ching. Having a technical occupation to make my living I definitely lack intuition and visual thinking. Will look at the cast and my current sutuation through your approach.

Just to say that you do not need intuition or visual thinking to get answers you understand from the I Ching as Hilary says in her Blog


You may need those for Tarot but the I Ching has no connection to the Tarot IMO and is an entirely different divinatory system.

Well intuition helps and the ability to see images in the lines though people can go too far with seeing images in the lines but you can understand Yi's answers just by reading what they say.

 

[mmvvdd80]

Hi, I hope you're right
Will read Hilary's post. It often so happens that even texts of lines are ambiguous for me. For example I study someone's analysis that says line A speaks of this issue, I read it myself and cannot fathom how this conclusion is made.

Never used Tarot.

 

[Trojina]

Hi, I hope you're right
Will read Hilary's post. It often so happens that event texts of lines of are ambiguous for me. For example I study someone's analysis that says line A speaks of this issue, I read it myself and cannot fathom how this conclusion is made.

Quite, I often feel the same thing myself, and it's good you notice the discrepancies between what people say lines mean and what the line itself actually says. You always have to go by what the line says because people's commentary, their opinion about what the line means just isn't the same thing as what the actual words of the I Ching say. You can take people's views on the meanings into account, including my own, but don't mistake them for the words of Yi which will be using specific imagery especially for you.


I do recommend the Foundations Course for a really solid grounding in interpretation skills. When you have these you won't feel so buffeted around by different people's views and can connect more directly with Yi. Well you can connect directly with Yi anyway, right now.

 

[marybluesky]

But I'm quite unexperienced with I Ching. Having a technical occupation to make my living I definitely lack intuition and visual thinking. Will look at the cast and my current sutuation through your approach.

Having a technical occupation doesn't mean lacking intuition. And different people can have different interpretations of the same reading: that's normal. Doesn't mean one is right and the other wrong. Others can help you, but at the end of the day, you must decide what to do with your life.

 

[mmvvdd80]

I do recommend the Foundations Course for a really solid grounding in interpretation skills. When you have these you won't feel so buffeted around by different people's views and can connect more directly with Yi. Well you can connect directly with Yi anyway, right now.

I definitely will consider taking it after some time into the theme.

Having a technical occupation doesn't mean lacking intuition. And different people can have different interpretations of the same reading: that's normal. Doesn't mean one is right and the other wrong. Others can help you, but at the end of the day, you must decide what to do with your life

It seems only a lot of practice helps to develop a proper skill of abstraction so you can think outside of what you want to think.

 

[mmvvdd80]

As for the theme of this thread, I've done as suggested, that is quit trying to initiate conversations with my ex. And he's been initiating it himself several times since then, so I think some cycle of events is over and now we're having some other situation, of which I will maybe have to ask another advice.