Bible Code? How about an I Ching Code?

[roman_slayer]

Isn't there something called the Bible Code where people are supposedly finding prophesies in the Bible? Couldn't someone apply that to the I Ching, as in, use that same technique on all the I Ching texts, including the line texts? I'd expect that something could deffinitely be found in there.

 

[dobro p]

Yeah, of course. That's one of the main ways that people use an oracle like the Yi - for reading the future. But perhaps that isn't what you're talking about.

As for the Yi text itself, I don't think it's very useful until you ask it a question and toss the coins. And it's what comes out of your own mind that's useful at that point, not the Yi text. The text is just a device for triggering stuff in your own mind.

Analogy: glasses are just a device for helping poor eyesight see more clearly. In themselves, glasses see nothing. Same with the Yi. In itself, it says nothing. You gotta use it.

 

[Sparhawk]

I've been thinking about this and I think Roman Slayer is asking a great question. Of course, he refers to these "Bible Codes". I think that, provided you put enough time and effort, such a code can be found in the text and patterns and sequences. The good news is that the text of the Yi is much smaller than the Torah.

 

[jesed]

The good news is that the text of the Yi is much smaller than the Torah.

Luis, don't get confused.. Size doesn't matter; but the way you use it. (So I'd heard somewhere)

 

[Sparhawk]

They all lie, Jesed!!

 

[jesed]

That was my rabbi said to me: "that's a poor alibi for this yijingers" (we are still talking about text; aren't we?)

 

[Sparhawk]

That was my rabbi said to me: "that's a poor alibi for this yijingers" (we are still talking about text; aren't we?)

Purely text, of course...

 

[bradford]

As with the Bible, many thousands of Yijing scholars have searched for and found
secret codes that are so subtle and intricate that they cannot even be said to exist
except in the minds of these scholars.

 

[meng]

IC is a code which unlocks a complex.

 

[Sparhawk]

As with the Bible, many thousands of Yijing scholars have searched for and found
secret codes that are so subtle and intricate that they cannot even be said to exist
except in the minds of these scholars.

The same can be said of the Bible, of course...

 

[ben_s]

I'm not sure you could really compare it, Roman. The Bible was written in languages that use letters to spell words. If you go through those letters in a different order, you can get different words. Since the original languages sometimes didn't use vowels, there is room to interpret which new words you get from rearranging the letters. The I Ching was written in a language that has a symbol for each whole word. If you jumbled the order, you'd just get different sentences using the same words. Also, the I Ching is so much smaller than the Bible and it's already typically used by a randomizing technique to select portions of the text. Overall I don't really see how you could even start to try to use "Bible code" techniques on the Chinese oracle, even if you wanted to. (I also don't see why you'd want to try.)

 

[dobro p]

many thousands of Yijing scholars have searched for and found
secret codes that are so subtle and intricate that they cannot even be said to exist
except in the minds of these scholars.

A few of them have cropped up here as well.

 

[dobro p]

IC is a code which unlocks a complex.

I think this pretty much nails it. Stop looking for a code in the Yi. The whole damn thing *is* a code. A symbolic code.

 

[heylise]

IC is a code which unlocks a complex.

Really love this one! It says everything which Yi is, basically. It unlocks psychic complexes, but just as well complex situations, showing the roots, the base. Where they came from, where they are still uncomplicated. Things, all things, have a way to grow into thousands of facets, and Yi goes back to where it is still essential.

LiSe

 

[roman_slayer]

I'm not sure you could really compare it, Roman. The Bible was written in languages that use letters to spell words. If you go through those letters in a different order, you can get different words. Since the original languages sometimes didn't use vowels, there is room to interpret which new words you get from rearranging the letters. The I Ching was written in a language that has a symbol for each whole word. If you jumbled the order, you'd just get different sentences using the same words. Also, the I Ching is so much smaller than the Bible and it's already typically used by a randomizing technique to select portions of the text. Overall I don't really see how you could even start to try to use "Bible code" techniques on the Chinese oracle, even if you wanted to. (I also don't see why you'd want to try.)

Uses symbols for each whole word? In that case, I think someone should try that "Bible Codes" computer program on the Wilhelm/Baynes translation, and then on Wilhem's original German translation.

You don't see why I would want to try? Well, I would like to try because that would be thinking outside the box. Thinking outside the box is what led Terrance Mckenna to notice the corelations, or possible corelations, between the I Ching and historic events (Time Wave Zero), planetary precesion cycles, and DNA structure.

The worst thing that could happen out of the attempt is that a person, or persons, could end up waisting some time, analyzing what the computer program finds in the translated I Ching texts, just to see that it didn't find anything. But, if it did find something, if it did...

But of course, we don't have to try. We can just assume that there is nothing to be found by trying this possible aproach ;^)

~roman_Slayer

 

[sergio]

Hello Roman;
I want to join the voices of those who don't see the point in transposing a methodology like the Bible Codes into the Yi but please don't let that prevent you from putting the idea in practice and showing us the results.Since you mentioned Terence Mc Kenna and his Escathon theory it may be a good idea to check this link too:http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/autopsy.html.Terence's ideas were certainly groundbreaking and inspiring to many(including me).But interesting as they are there are objections to it,acknowledged by Terence before he died.I would not consider he was thinking outside the box.On the contrary,he was pushing it to the very limits and taking the risk for it,too.A great soul.Coming back to the subject you proposed,now is YOUR opportunity "to put your money where your mouth is"as it is said in friendly American slang,Good luck(seriously)
Sergio

 

[sergio]

The link does not work so try "The Watkins objection:An Autopsy for a Mathematical Hallucination" by Mathew Watkins .I'll try getting a link to his website.
Sergio
P.S.:HERE IS THE LINK(HOPE IT WORKS)
http://www.secamlocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/mrwatkin/
Click on "investigating a bizarre theory of time and conciousness"

 

[fkegan]

Thinking outside the box is what led Terrance Mckenna to notice the corelations, or possible corelations, between the I Ching and historic events (Time Wave Zero), planetary precesion cycles, and DNA structure.

Hi Roman,
I managed a bit of analysis of Mckenna's work and followed that up with email conversation with him after contacting various experts in calendar systems in general and the Chinese calendar in particular. I wouldn't agree Mckenna was at all thinking outside the box. He was using his training in computer math and looking for ways to force it upon the Yi's 64 hexagrams.

His major thesis was that all systems converged upon an end to the World in 2012 which is now close enough to observe as it unfolds, though tends not to be an encouraging project--'look--we were right, glug,glug, glug...

Basically, he took the 384 lines in the entire Yi and thought of them as thirteen lunar months plus some. He confirmed that was his fundamental math approach. However, lunar calendars and especially the Chinese is based upon 12 months with adjustments or extra months thrown in when needed, but never considered a year of 13 months.

Looking for I Ching codes may well be an interesting project. You just need to decide what it is that you are looking for and what technique you will use in your search. The Bible Code work arises out of the traditional Qaballah which assumes that both the universe was constructed by God and God wrote all about that construction in Hebrew, where the letters of the alphabet are also numbers and therefore you can take any word and convert it into numbers which encourages finding number codes in Hebrew text.

Doing that with the Yi is a bit more difficult as the line structure and sequence is generally recognized as distinct from the specific text used to explain their meaning. The first step would have to be finding framework to use, which probably would not be the same as Bible codes.

Find your own matrix or key and go for it!

Frank

 

[roman_slayer]

"Coming back to the subject you proposed,now is YOUR opportunity "to put your money where your mouth is"as it is said in friendly American slang,Good luck(seriously)"

Well, as a yank over here in the U.S., I wish I ~could~ do what that friendly American slang suggests; put my money where my mouth is, but unfortunately, I don't have the Wilhem translations on my computer, and I don't have the "Bible Codes" program either. If I did, I would definitely be running the "search". Actually, I would have probably done that ~before~ I ever brought the subject up here (chuckle) So, in these postings, I never meant any pretensions or arrogance, I brought up this idea in hopes that someone else who does have the translations and the "Bible Code" program on their computer could try it.

roman_Slayer

 

[Sparhawk]

You don't see why I would want to try? Well, I would like to try because that would be thinking outside the box. Thinking outside the box is what led Terrance Mckenna to notice the corelations, or possible corelations, between the I Ching and historic events (Time Wave Zero), planetary precesion cycles, and DNA structure.

That and a boatload of psilocybin and other tasty treats...

Well, as a yank over here in the U.S., I wish I ~could~ do what that friendly American slang suggests; put my money where my mouth is, but unfortunately, I don't have the Wilhem translations on my computer, and I don't have the "Bible Codes" program either.

That's the easy part...


Seriously though, I'll add myself to the chorus of those saying "why not try?" I mean, it doesn't hurt and keeps Alzheimer's at bay.

Those that, about 10 years or so ago, before Clarity was around and frequented the Hex-8 mailing list, will remember that the person behind the Levity website, who published many of McKenna's articles, and McKenna himself, participated there on a regular basis and we (we as in all of us) used to hold debates about those ideas. If I remember correctly (I'm sure Brad remembers too, and Lorraine Patsco, and Chris Lofting...), it was him or McKenna that declared that the formulas and calculations published in "The invisible landscape" were incorrect and were revised.

 

[Sparhawk]

Since you mentioned Terence Mc Kenna and his Escathon theory it may be a good idea to check this link too:http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/autopsy.html.Terence's ideas were certainly groundbreaking and inspiring to many(including me).

Here is the correct link to that page: Autopsy for a Mathematical Hallucination?

Speaking of Watkins and mathematicians, Andreas Schöter was also a participant in Hex-8. I don't remember if he is a member of Clarity but I wish he participated in here. That was a nice group of people--many of them here--Chris Lofting and all...

 

[emc2cme]

Thinking in Chinese would be helpful

I'm wondering which would be the equivalent of the Hebrew letters, however, in Chinese.
Would it be the hexagrams, the lines, the original "pictures" and/or sounds that make them all up?

Often codes are used to ensure privacy (as in Da Vinci's writing), or to slip under the enemies' notice (as in war), or to conceal hidden treasures from the unworthy (as in gematria). It might help you in your endeavors, if you thought about what purpose a hidden code in the Yi would serve.

What an interesting idea you've come up with!

Nancy

 

[roman_slayer]

Oh heck, I have no idea what the purpose may be to have put hidden messages in the I Ching texts, I just thought that there may be something in there that everyone is missing. But, it was just a thought. I could be completely wrong. Thank you for the compliment about the idea :^)

~roman_Slayer