Blog post: The clouds of Hexagram 9

[hilary]

Hexagram 9 says,

‘Small taming, creating success.
Dense clouds without rain
Come from my Western altars.’
​

The dense clouds without rain suggest that what we need is tantalisingly close, just not quite here yet.* Those ‘Western altars’ are probably a subtle reference to the Zhou, people of the West. Before they could receive heaven’s mandate, they spent many generations in Hexagram 9′s work as small farmers, cultivating their land and the ‘natural pattern of character’ – and the word ‘pattern’ here is Wen, the ‘pattern king’ who prepared the ground for his son’s conquest of Shang. So this looks like a hexagram of making ready to receive the mandate.
I’ve still barely started reading Shaughnessy’s Unearthing the Changes – but just a few pages in, he quotes a fascinating divination. Recorded in the Mozi (5th/4th century BC), these are said to be the words of a diviner of the Xia, interpreting the turtle shell omen for the casting of a ding vessel:

“So billowing the white clouds, now south now north, now west now east: The nine cauldrons being completed will be transferred to the three kingdoms.”
​

This omen predicted the transfer of power from Xia to Shang and Shang to Zhou. Shaughnessy says modestly that it’s ‘unclear’ to him why the omen would mention clouds, but in a footnote mentions a record of a cloud omen associated with a later discovery of an exceptional vessel, and speculates there may be an association between Yu’s nine vessels and the appearance of clouds.
And here in Hexagram 9, the clouds are on their way. They’re carried by the wind that moves above heaven, shaped by its power – heaven-powered, Mandate-powered winds.
These clouds are thick, not bright; the vessel hasn’t yet come to the Zhou, and it’s not yet raining. But according to Hexagram 50 line 3, when the great vessel is finally restored to use, this will be like the clouds finally bringing rain:

‘The vessel’s ears are radically changed,
Its action blocked.
Rich pheasant fat goes uneaten.
Rain on all sides lessens regrets,
In the end, good fortune.’
​

 

[charly]

Hexagram 9 says,

‘Small taming, creating success.
Dense clouds without rain
Come from my Western altars.’
​

The dense clouds without rain suggest that what we need is tantalisingly close, just not quite here yet.* Those ‘Western altars’ are probably a subtle reference to the Zhou, people of the West...

Hi, Hilary:

I like the image of the stormy clouds as a premonition of the rebelion. and the sequnce «... from our western altars» suggests that the person who is speaking is a foreigner from the west, which is not visible when jiao is translated as «suburb». The speaker might be Wen Wang, the Civil King.

Of course that the image of CLOUD & RAIN had the connotation of SEX in chinese literary tradition and that the JIAO was a temple were the king served his women. Maybe the speaker was Wu Wang, the Martial King, being not so learned like his father, he might be remembered when exhorting his troops: «F_CK THE SHANGS!!!»

A fecundity rite which was performed at an altar outside of town jiao 郊 where sexual intercourse (-> jiao 交) was involved.

Schuessler: ABC Etymological Dictionary of Old Chinese

About the link with the rebelion, I believe to remember Blofeld translation where the first two characters of H.48 (my mistake, it was H.9 小 xiao3 畜 chu4 !!!) (1) were rendered as something like Little Breeders or Little Farmers, maybe the profile of Zhou people and their allies.

All the best,


Charly

_______________________
(1) 小畜 xiao3 chu4 = Little Animal could be an euphemism wit phallic meaning. H.48 was of course a freudian slip, my mistake.

Ch.

 

[Sparhawk]

Grrr... The usual that I can't post Chinese characters in you blog...
===

On Shaughnessy, wait until he gets to discuss 井/48…

(I mentioned this curious exercise to Harmen in his blog recently and he doesn't agree with Ed.)


But on this phrase about clouds, it should noted that the same phrase is repeated in 62.5 (密雲不雨), the other only place where that character appears.

 

[hilary]

Huh - I've done lots of reading on 'outskirts altars' without encountering the sexual connotation. Is this mentioned anywhere except Schuessler?

There must be some good reason for this phrase to recur word-for-word in 62.5. I'm at a loss to see what it could be, though. The only obvious thing they have in common is 'smallness', being compelled to adapt to circumstances… that's obviously relevant to having to wait on the weather. But there must be more to be said.

When does he get to jing?

 

[Sparhawk]

Page 61 onwards. Mind you, he isn't the only one speculating about it as he cites other Chinese academics and exegetes.

 

[charly]

Huh - I've done lots of reading on 'outskirts altars' without encountering the sexual connotation. Is this mentioned anywhere except Schuessler?

Hi, Hilary:

Of course, it wasn´t invented by Schuessler. I must look for source because I´ve lost almost all my archive in the past year, although it wasn´t the worst.

As far as I remember there were two royal JIAO RITES:

1) Performed by the SON OF HEAVEN and his WIFES at the SUBURBAN TEMPLE. Only nobles allowed.

2) Performed by the QUEEN or main wife of the son of Heaven in the intimacy of the royal gyneceum. Only women allowed.

Good that you don´t trust all what you read, I believe that one of the main commandments for translators is trying to verify the sources as far as possible.

Meanwhile can take a look to Max Kaltenmark bibliography, specially n. 20 A propos du Gao-Mei, here:

http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/asie_0766-1177_1988_num_4_1_911
​

20. "Notes à propos du Kao-mei" Annuaire 1966-1967 de l'Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Ve section, Sciences religieuses. Vol. 74. Paris, 1966. Pp. 5-34.

The Kao-mei JH^ deity was the supreme go-between for young couples, to whom offerings were made to assure male progeny. The ancient spring festival in the god's honour is described by Marcel Granet in Fêtes et Chansons anciennes de la Chine and discussed by Henri Maspero ("La société et la religion des Chinois anciens et celles des Tai modernes", in Le Taoïsme et les religions chinoises, Paris: Gallimard, 1971, pp. 232—243; trans., Taoism and Chinese Religion, University of Massachusetts Press, Amherst, 1981, pp. 207-217). In this rich study of ancient marriage customs, hierogamies, erotic symbolism and mother deities, Kaltenmark shows that the term Kao-mei actually designated the mothers of dynastic ancestors such as Chien-ti and Chiang-yii.

Source: Cahiers d'Extrême-Asie, Vol. 4, 1988. pp. 8-17.

And the "Notes à propos du Kao-mei", in french of course, here:

http://www.persee.fr/articleAsPDF/e...ticle_ephe_0000-0002_1965_num_78_74_18244.pdf
​

More source or quotes assap.

All the best,


Charly

 

[charly]

Hi, Hilary:

Going to the following question...

There must be some good reason for this phrase to recur word-for-word in 62.5. I'm at a loss to see what it could be, though. The only obvious thing they have in common is 'smallness', being compelled to adapt to circumstances… that's obviously relevant to having to wait on the weather. But there must be more to be said.

62.5 received text:

密雲不雨
mi4 yun2 bu4 yu3
DENSE CLOUDS NO RAIN
Signs of stormy weather, not yet released the tension.

自我西郊
zi4 wo3 xi1 jiao1
FROM MY WESTERN SUBURBAN-TEMPLE
From our fertility altars

公弋取彼在穴
gong1 yi4 qu3 bi3 zai4 xue2
(THE) DUKE WILL-SHOOT (AND) FETCH THOSE IN (A) CAVE.
Local rulers will hunt and fetch, as wives, even those foling up in caves.
They will f_uck even those hidden below the skirts of their women.
It promise no mercy for the Shang enemies, I suppose.

​

Some characters with sexual meanings:
雲雨 yun yu = clouds and rain / sexual intercourse (clouds without rain = passion without resolution)
郊 jiao = suburban temple for «fertility rites» (f_uck + place)
公 gong = duke / local ruler // male (for some animals) // public
弋 yi = to shoot // like in english slang
取 qu = to fetch // to marry / to get a wife / to catch women (ear + hand)
穴 xue = cave / cavern / vessel, parts of human body with arteries (medical)

(to be continued)

Yours,


Charly

 

[charly]

P.D.:
Another possibility:

THE DUKE WILL SHOOT AND MARRY CAVE PEOPLE (?)

See: http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Rearranged_Strip_Alley.jpg

First box:
She: I don´t know about you, but I´m glad to be home again!
He: Well, in view of my recent mental development it could be an interesting experience!

From: examiner.com Comic Strips - "Alley Oop"

Ch.

 

[sooo]

Charly IS a sexual encounter.

Charly, you need to write The Erotic I Ching.

(said with friendly respect) :bows:

 

[hilary]

Page 61 onwards. Mind you, he isn't the only one speculating about it as he cites other Chinese academics and exegetes.

Ah - right! My first irreverent thought is 'pigs probably fell down wells from time to time'. But it's true that I've thought for some time that there's a lot of play, especially in the Wings, on the topological similarity between 47 and 48. A well is a deep dark hole, when all's said and done. (Though it seems unwise to say so when Charly's around.)

Very very interesting point about the lining of wells, though. If that really never happened in Zhou times, my idea of line 4 is completely wrong. I've been imagining the investment of time in shaping and baking special tiles for the job, and how that might seem like 'overdoing it' (zhi 28). (But maybe it was done with something less durable than brick/tile?)

Charly IS a sexual encounter.

Charly, you need to write The Erotic I Ching.

(said with friendly respect) :bows:

Definitely. I will invest in a copy as soon as it's available.

...

And the "Notes à propos du Kao-mei", in french of course, here:

http://www.persee.fr/articleAsPDF/e...ticle_ephe_0000-0002_1965_num_78_74_18244.pdf
​

More source or quotes assap.

All the best,


Charly

Downloaded and reading, thank you!

 

[bradford]

I live in an arid climate, with prevailing winds out of the Southwest.
The winds cross the desert landscape, heat up, and then cool when they
start to climb in elevation. Our driest month is June, when the clouds come
bringing lots of hope and subsequent disappointment. For me it's easy to feel
the message here.

 

[sooo]

I live in an arid climate, with prevailing winds out of the Southwest.
The winds cross the desert landscape, heat up, and then cool when they
start to climb in elevation. Our driest month is June, when the clouds come
bringing lots of hope and subsequent disappointment. For me it's easy to feel
the message here.

I like this analogy, or reality.

What would be the Yi's meteorological equivalent to this location, when in late June the heat draws two strong wind currents from two ocean gulfs from the south and southwest upward, and meet, carrying copious moisture from the sea with them, creating the yearly monsoon season, lasting usually until early August? Definitely not hex 9. Might it be 28? Wind below, lake above.

 

[charly]

Charly IS a sexual encounter.

Charly, you need to write The Erotic I Ching.

(said with friendly respect) :bows:

Oh, Bruce!

Erotic should be little accurate, maybe better ALTERNATIVE.

Of course, The F_cking Book of Change is also appropriate, but I fear to lack of time and the bias don´t belong to me but to the popular imagination beyond countries, times and cultures.

Lin Yutang said that the chinese language was full of sexual connotations, maybe more than english ..., Eberhard thinked the same. If ancient chinese were not interested in sex, why so many gifts of women to the rulers? Why did Confucius say that people are more interested in sex than in virtue? Maybe Confucius didn´t like female singers, but his boss did. Was it for enjoying music?

If people was interested in sex, the Changes of course was too. Legge or Wilhelm knew it.

All the best,


Charly

 

[charly]

Ah - right! My first irreverent thought is 'pigs probably fell down wells from time to time'. But it's true that I've thought for some time that there's a lot of play, especially in the Wings, on the topological similarity between 47 and 48. A well is a deep dark hole, when all's said and done. (Though it seems unwise to say so when Charly's around.)

Hi, Hilary:

I don´t understand too much what happens with H.47 HARD-PRESSING and H.48 DOOR-TO-UNDERGROUND-WATER. The KUN character depicts a trunk of tree inside a ring, not known if the tree stretching the ring or the ring compressing the tree or both at the same time. The JING character is less clear, maybe it depcts a frame in the mouth of the well, anciently the character had a dot inside, pointing that the main is in the center. In prehistoric pottery the dot is ogive shaped (), looking almost obscene for some eyes.

Very very interesting point about the lining of wells, though. If that really never happened in Zhou times, my idea of line 4 is completely wrong. I've been imagining the investment of time in shaping and baking special tiles for the job, and how that might seem like 'overdoing it' (zhi 28). (But maybe it was done with something less durable than brick/tile?)

甃 zhou4 = well brickwork can be seen as a verb, say, to bild the wall. I imagine, based in character analysis (GRAIN + FIRE / TILE), that using wooden cylinders made for containing grain.

China Culture - Well-Digging Industry

... In the ancient times, well-digging rings were used as the well wall, which were replaced by spiles later, and then bricks or stones ... a carpenter was hired to clean the well when it got dirty

Source: http://kaleidoscope.cultural-china.com/en/45Kaleidoscope1867.html

Definitely. I will invest in a copy as soon as it's available.

Glad that you like the idea ...

Downloaded and reading, thank you!

... and that you got Kaltenmark.

All the best,


Charly

 

[charly]

Hi, Hilary:

Another reference:

Ways with Words: Writing about Reading Texts from Early China
edited by Pauline Yu

Can get a preview in Google Books

Mao says:
... On the day of the arrival of the dark birds [=swallows] a Grand Victim offering [of an ox, goat and pig] was made to the Jiao mei. The Son of Heaven personally atended the rites. The Queen Consort led the nine concubines and they were favored by him [i.e. had sexual relation with him] ...

D.R.Knetchges
Page 20.

(to be continued)

Ch.

 

[hilary]

... In the ancient times, well-digging rings were used as the well wall, which were replaced by spiles later, and then bricks or stones ...

...next question: what is a 'well-digging ring'? Anyone know?

 

[sooo]

...next question: what is a 'well-digging ring'? Anyone know?

Maybe a well ring, rather than well digging ring?

A modern concrete well ring. Seems something similar could have been constructed of stone and mortar as a structural insert?

I seem to recall this being an ancient well in Israel. Yes, it's also on LiSe's 48 page. Perhaps this was an internal structure as well as external.

 

[AskingQuestions]

Here is Richard Sear's page on the character 西 (West). I remember him having more than the usual fun with this one.

http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?submitButton1=Etymology&characterInput=%E8%A5%BF

Maybe the west is also symbolic of wrapping up small things. As for Hexagram 9, it might be saying that this is no easy task (no help). Maybe there is no bag to contain these things in.

Interesting enough, the second character in Hexagram 9's name - 畜 - is a picture of a bag which holds animal feed.

I wrote a little on the connection here on my website: http://thegoldencrow.com/yijing/gua09 (the website is a mess. I'm in the process of cleaning it up)

A cloud could be looked at as a vessel which holds the water that feeds the people.

 

[hilary]

Nice. But I don't remember any bags in chu, taming...?

Re-wells - what got me worried/wondering about 48.4 was this from Shaughnessy:

Thousands of wells from all periods of China's ancient history have been excavated over the past several decades, and they display certain clear technological advances over the course of that history. Most important for our purposes here, until the Spring and Autumn period, wells invariably had only dirt walls. It was not until the end of the Spring and Autumn period and beginning of the Warring States period (i.e., the fifth century B.C.) that wells began to be lined with brick or earthenware tiles. Therefore, if the Zhouyi were first composed in the Western Zhou period (1045-771B.C), as traditions regarding it affirm, then the received reading "the well is bricked" would necessarily be anachronistic based on the cultural awareness of teachers and scribes many centuries later.

So no well rings of any description, apparently - though I did wonder if they might've used something more fragile than tiles/bricks to line the well, that wouldn't have survived for the archaeologists to find.

 

[sooo]

I find it hard to imagine a well holding together with only dirt for its lining. Ancient middle eastern wells were either dug into rock and filled with water, as a cistern, or the dirt walled well that went into the earth's water table would be lined with a lime plaster or clay to keep water from leaking out. Such wells would develop cracks from time to time and would require repairing of this plaster with more plaster or clay. Later, tiles were used. I wonder if similarly, clay was used in ancient China, and when examined thousands of years later were assumed to simply be earthen/dirt. For sure, water would seep through plain dirt unless a hardened surface was created.

 

[AskingQuestions]

Hilary - Here is a nice breakdown of the etymology of 畜 - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%95%9C

 

[hilary]

I find it hard to imagine a well holding together with only dirt for its lining. Ancient middle eastern wells were either dug into rock and filled with water, as a cistern, or the dirt walled well that went into the earth's water table would be lined with a lime plaster or clay to keep water from leaking out. Such wells would develop cracks from time to time and would require repairing of this plaster with more plaster or clay. Later, tiles were used. I wonder if similarly, clay was used in ancient China, and when examined thousands of years later were assumed to simply be earthen/dirt. For sure, water would seep through plain dirt unless a hardened surface was created.

I find it hard to imagine, too. I remember reading in Lindqvist about the need for the wooden frame to prevent the silt walls from collapsing as you dig. The idea of a clay/plaster lining is a good one.

Hilary - Here is a nice breakdown of the etymology of 畜 - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/畜

It's true it does look like a string bag - it does at http://www.internationalscientific.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=畜 too, especially the oracle character - but weird that they are labelling as 'bag' the component that, if you follow the link, they agree means 'field'. (I'm attached to the 'field' part because I find 'farming' to be the most useful single concept for the character - that combination of restraining and nurturing/growing.)

 

[charly]

...next question: what is a 'well-digging ring'? Anyone know?

Hilary:

I believe that modular tubes used for digging the hole an for avoinding the earthenwalls to collapse, like the sketch posted by Bruce but not of concrete. Maybe like bottomless barrels or trunks of tree (bamboo?) hollowed by fire.

Ancient Chinese drilling
by Oliver Kuhn, Divestco Inc

The first recorded salt well in China was dug in Sichuan Province, around 2,250 years ago. This was the first time water well technology was applied successfully to the exploitation of salt ...

About 2,000 years ago the technology began to evolve. The inhabitants began to dig wells with percussive drilling systems instead of digging them by hand with shovels

Source: http://www.epmag.com/Production-Drilling/Ancient-Chinese-drilling_4266

Say, that in Zhou times wells were carved by hand with shovels.

Digging wells had maybe some sexual connotation, for the worker with his shovel inside the wooden ring, for the connections with earth and fertility. I believe that the spirit of the well was the same that the spirit of the valley, the Misterious Female, the Old Immortal Mother of the DDJ.

The later use of drilling tools had to increase such connotation, even more with the percussive drilling technology.

As far as I´ve read, Needham in vol 4.2 speak of wells technology but not too much in pre-Han times.

Yours,


Charly

 

[charly]

... So no well rings of any description, apparently - though I did wonder if they might've used something more fragile than tiles/bricks to line the well, that wouldn't have survived for the archaeologists to find.

Hi, Hilary:

Ancient people made wells for quenching thirst not for archaeologists delight. In Lyn Yutang 甃 zhou4: brickwork of well / to build a wall also has the meaning of WELL CURB that Karlgren supposed had the shape of the character 井 jing3: well / shaft , a sort of wooden frame often used in mining.

Like this:

Source: Japanese Homes at http://www.kellscraft.com/JapaneseHomes/JapaneseHomesCh07.html
​

In her page, the old Book of t Moon, LiSe says;

Hex.48: let the roots go deeper than deep, where they will find the primeval waters. The picture of the hexagram name resembles the magic square, one of the mandala’s representing cosmic order. Many peoples have this image in varying forms. The waters from the well are connected with cosmic values, they bring up myth. Therefore their working is inspiring, they encompass much more than thought can imagine.

LiSe
Source: http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_33-48/47-48.htm

There she quotes Cecilia Lindqvist:

... ancient wells were round. The best-preserved one stems from the Zhou period, and it was even lined with half-meter-high rings of pottery.

... two wells, the earliest found in China to date. They are ... contemporary with the oracle bones.
... Like all other wells already found, the wells in Gaocheng are round, but – and this is what is exciting – right at the bottom lies a square frame made of logs placed in four or five layers on top of each other. Together, their shape agrees entirely with that of the character for well.

Cecilia Lindqvist, "China, empire of living symbols"

There are the famous RINGS and the WOODEN FRAME which, and LiSe explains why, was at the bottom and not atop of the well.

All the best,


Charly

P.D.:
LiSE also holds that if we just follow habits or customs our tree will wither, but that´s another story and you will understand me.
Ch.

 

[hilary]

Ah! I wondered if I had completely dreamt the existence of the pottery rings. Apparently not. Very happy to hear it!

 

[sooo]

Funny, two images kept popping into my head about this. One being a square structure, somewhat the principle used to retain earthen walls by miners, and the use of wood. Seeing LiSe's # image seems to make sense, especially for that bottom structural part of the 'tube'. I think the hollowed and burnt out tree is a very interesting idea, perhaps more primitive than the later inserts, and the later yet tile lining. It sounds almost prehistoric but feasible, ingenious.

 

[AskingQuestions]

It's true it does look like a string bag - it does at http://www.internationalscientific.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=畜 too, especially the oracle character - but weird that they are labelling as 'bag' the component that, if you follow the link, they agree means 'field'. (I'm attached to the 'field' part because I find 'farming' to be the most useful single concept for the character - that combination of restraining and nurturing/growing.)

I am not sure why they are labeling a field as a bag.
However, symbolically, my mind thinks of 2.4

 

[hilary]

I like the way your mind works.

 

[charly]

I am not sure why they are labeling a field as a bag.
However, symbolically, my mind thinks of 2.4

Hi, Courtney:

First of all a square crossed by two strokes means FIELD, say, PLOWED LANDS, only after calligraphy normalization of so called «radicals» composed by fixed shape strokes. By example, now old radicals MEAT and MOON have the same shape. Not all the shapes that now look like FIELD were ideographic sketches of FIELDS. Uncle Hanzi see here the sketch of a TIED BAG.

I believe that PLOWED LANDS and TIED BAGS have both connections with THE FEMALE PRINCIPLE and, by consequence, also with THE MALE PRINCIPLE.

Under that point of view chu/xu can be seen as MYSTERIOUS ARABLE LANDS (♀) or as DARKNESS OVER ARABLE LANDS (a night of passion) or as RAISING CATTLE / TO FEED THE ANIMAL (♂). The TIED BAG is connected maybe with restraining natural drives (male or female) or even with having a wife.

LITTLE FARMING has connection with the house of common monogamic people, not like aristocrats that used to be poligamic. LITTLE DOMESTIC ANIMAL was maybe an euphemism for male or female organs, that in the Changes, like other things, are always persons.

I wonder what TIE THE BAG / SHUT THE PURSE can mean in H.2 The FEMALE «PRINCIPLE».

Best whishes,


Charly

 

[AskingQuestions]

I believe that PLOWED LANDS and TIED BAGS have both connectons with THE FEMALE PRINCIPLE and, by consequence, also with THE MALE PRINCIPLE.

Charly, I agree. A field and a bag are both symbolic of spaces which hold potential. They become valuable by planting things in them.

I wonder what TIE THE BAG / SHUT THE PURSE can mean in H.2 The FEMALE «PRINCIPLE».

Hmmm... let me think