Bradford's Yijing

[marybluesky]

I know for a long time that Bradford Hatcher has been a Clarity member, and learned recently about his demise less than a year ago. RIP.

I downloaded his book in late April, after reading some of his interesting comments in Clarity. I know that he's considered to be an excellent I Ching translator & teacher, and is highly respected.

I wanted to know the opinion of other members on his translation, commentaries, and overall, his book.

Personally, while I find some of his words & interpretations wonderful, I don't always enjoy the jokes & stories he tells in commentaries.

 

[dfreed]

I don't always enjoy the jokes & stories he tells in commentaries.

Bradford's Yi was my main Oracle squeeze for a few years. I greatly appreciate his contributions to the field of Yi studies, and I am saddened by his passing.

He referred to his commentaries as the “Rogue River Commentaries” - because they were begun alongside this river in Oregon. He says:

​

"Before anything else I should be clear that this effort does not in any way attempt to explain the texts of the Book of Changes. It is not an attempt to do any of your thinking for you or to make your task of understanding any easier .... ​

​

"Another way of saying this: I tried to put on the original text and walk around in it some more, stretching it further, exploring some of its tangents and implications and, in the process, try to drop as ​

many clues and hints as possible to some of the layers of meanings in the original."​

I find his commentaries one of the best parts of his translation, because they made me think and see in different ways, but - as Bradford intended - they didn't do this seeing and thinking for me. In contrast, sometimes when people talk about - or ask about - what the Yi 'means' they will not look to or quote the Yi, but instead talk about the commentaries, sort of like: 'the Yi means this because the commentaries say so'. I found that Bradford's commentaries don't lend themselves to this approach as much.

At times, I find them odd and quirky, as well as informative, so that makes me curious: what is it about them that you don't always enjoy?

 

[marybluesky]

At times, I find them odd and quirky, as well as informative, so that makes me curious: what is it about them that you don't always enjoy?

I don't share his sense of humor. And I don't find the stories such as, to say, the young heir making a feast (26.6), funny. His commentaries don't seem to be much Yi- related, at least compared to what I've read on others' books during the limited time I've been studying the Yi, and he doesn't pretend that either.

I'm in no place to question his writing, just wanted to share my opinion & see what others think.

 

[dfreed]

I don't find the stories ... the young heir making a feast (26.6), funny ....

... what (do) others think.

I read his commentary for 26.6. In this case I didn't immediately see it as particularly meaningful, but then again it is not part of a casting, reading or query, which gives meaning and context to what the Yi's responses mean.

That said, I didn't find his commentary 'funny' - or that it was mean to be so (as in 'ha-ha' funny) - when he talks about the 'young heir inherit(ing) the high, sacred place' .... or where 'he restores the ancestral shrine and sets a great feast for the stars ....' This feels perhaps mythic, or creative, and perhaps joyful or playful, but not necessarily 'funny'.

I then looked at Richard Rutt's translation of 26.6 - Receiving Heaven’s grace. (An) offering ....

.... And it made me wonder, here in Bradfords' Rogue River commentary a prince (or maybe any of us) is sitting atop a mountain which resides atop heaven (which is what the trigrams of 26 depict). And we are told that here we can 'receive heaven's grace' - but how might we do this? Maybe as Bradford describes, by restoring something important or sacred to us (ex. a long-lost spiritual or family connection?), ... or by setting out offerings (as was often done in ancient China) a great feast for the stars, ... or maybe by just serving others whom are not necessarily great or star-like ....

,,,, what does it mean to sit in this high and lofty place? Are we meant to just sit here, Mountain-like and just receive (from heaven or from others)? Or can we - or should we - also be making offerings and serving others (with Earth - the upper trigram of Hex. 11, that 26.6 turns into - being associated with nurturing and service)?

And all that is perhaps a bit odd, or overly-spiritual, or too woo-woo, but it sets me to thinking: what might it mean in a reading, to be sitting on top of a mountain above Heaven, and here we can "receive (heaven's) grace"? Do we have any duties or responsibilities or certain ways the Yi is suggesting we can, should (or need to) be in this instance?

Best, D

 

[marybluesky]

That said, I didn't find his commentary 'funny' when he talks about the 'young heir inherit(ing) the high, sacred place' .... or where 'he restores the ancestral shrine and sets a great feast for the stars ....' - as in I don't see it as being 'ha-ha' funny.

And then "stars have a marvelous time, although they eat little or nothing". I didn't talk about ha-ha funny by the way,

 

[dfreed]

And then "stars have a marvelous time, although they eat little or nothing".

I'm not really sure what that means, but it sounds like something Walt Whitman or maybe even Shakespeare might say!

... I could imagine too ... the star beings do not really need what we've offered to them - what material things we've laid out on the temple alter - but they do enjoy and appreciate the fact that we made the offering. (And I'm not sure what that has to do with the 26.6, but I appreciate it anyway!). When I was using his translation more, not every word or phrase of Bradford's made sense or seemed to fit for me, but we always have a choice as to what we use and work with.

Best, D

 

[IrfanK]

I wanted to know the opinion of other members on his translation, commentaries, and overall, his book.

I'm a fan. I would say I like his commentaries better than those of any other translator.

"Another way of saying this: I tried to put on the original text and walk around in it some more, stretching it further, exploring some of its tangents and implications and, in the process, try to drop as
many clues and hints as possible to some of the layers of meanings in the original."

Yes, that's exactly what he does. He takes the images in the text and explores them rather than drawing moral meanings. What I really admire is the process. I think that's what we should do when we read the text ourselves, even if we come up with quite different results. I had a meeting with Hilary for the imagery class last weekend and I made a joke that reading Bradford's commentaries before you have sat down and done the work yourself is like watching the movie before you read the book. If you read the book after, you'll always see Johnny Depp in the lead role. But after I've worked out what the images mean to me, then I like to see what he has to say. Sometimes completely different, sometimes quite similar.

He does have a sharp and not always comfortable sense of humor, for sure.

 

[hilary]

A funny thing... I've been running two 'sessions' for each week of the Imagery Class, to provide for people in different timezones. And in both of the first week's sessions, when I talked about the need to get inside the imagery and respond to it in its own terms before trying to 'interpret', someone said, 'Oh, like Bradford Hatcher does.' It hadn't occurred to me to describe what he does that way, but yes. So try reading his commentaries as something other than an interpretation. Irfan's practice of finding one's own response first and visiting Bradford second is a good idea, too.

 

[marybluesky]

Irfan's practice of finding one's own response first and visiting Bradford second is a good idea, too.

Of course I do this must of the time, before reading commentaries by any author.

 

[hilary]

Of course I do this must of the time, before reading commentaries by any author.

Kudos to you. Not everyone does!

 

[charly]

Of course I do this must of the time, before reading commentaries by any author.

Hi Mary:

It is a very good practice to get involved. But for syntonizing humour we have to put some sort of key «ON». Maybe Brad becomes fun for those who read him at the light of our own naughtiness. If we lack of it can get lost in reading.

With Brad we have had many disagreements. Sometimes I have found him funny, sometimes heavy. But, reading him, I have passed much time enjoying and I have learned a lot.

Although now, after so many pages read, I no longer remember with accuracy what I have learned and what not. He will have forgiven me! Nobody's perfect!

All the best,

Charly
___________________________
P.D.:

For later work, the Brad's 26.6 commentary:

What is heaven’s thoroughfare?
Fulfillment

26.6x What is heaven’s course?
The way the great advance

Is this a highway to heaven or what?
The young heir inherits the high, sacred place,
the shining mountain, held so much in awe by the mound builders.

Who can forget the whole point of building these mounds:
to gain a commanding view from above?
:​

To honor the wonderful height, he restores the ancestral shrine and sets a great feast
for the stars, and nobles and worthies too. All heaven attends his fine service, and the
stars have a marvelous time, although they eat little or nothing. When you set a table
for gods you get to eat the leftovers, so plenty remains for those not dining at home,
and for guests from across the great waters.

Is the top of this heap as close as we’ll get to heaven?
Was the fine time worth saving up for?
What does a peak experience justify?

Fulfilling ourselves or our duties,
fulfillment is freedom: it lets us move on.

Bradford Hatcher
​

 

[dfreed]

Some other Bradford Hatcher references:

Bradford's website has a lot of information about a range of topics, including the Yi:

From the site is a link to another page: Yijing Hexagram Names and Core Meanings: this is list of all 64 hexagrams with dozens of names or titles for each - including Hilary's and others. It is a great reference if you like including the hexagrams' names as part of an interpretation.

He also includes a glossary and key words associated with each hexagram (which are also found in his Yi). What is also of great interest are his Notes - which I have found very useful. These are not quite commentaries, nor translation notes, but perhaps very interesting observations about each of the hexagrams. Here's an example from Hex. 3:

​

03 Notes: The link between Sprout and Difficult Beginnings is the image of the freshly sprouted plant emerging from the Earth into a storm, with no alternative but to call upon or rally all of its resources. The ability to secure whatever resources and help it requires will be its answer to evolution's selection process (most of the others are longer).​

Another link: Tarot as a Counseling Language: Core Meanings of the Cards. Here he discusses the meanings of the Tarot card deck. He also includes 'correspondences' to the Yi (and also to astrology and Qabalah). At times I have found it informative to see what a certain tarot card means in relation to it's corresponding Gua, for example:

The Six of Swords and Hexagram 13 - fellowship with others.

I really like his Tao Te Ching (PDF file) - my most used translation. And there are lots of other topics he touches upon: Buddhism, addiction and recovery, the occult, environmental design, carrying capacity, the Constitution ....

Best, D

 

[charly]

For those interested, a little sample of Bradford in his sauce, here, in Clarity Forum.
a thread started by Bruce:

Q for Bradford, 26.5

This pertains to Brad's specific commentary on 26.5, starting with "Culture is a veneer..." ending with "a little effort to get great result." Brad, can you offer more on that? IE "it now goes down but not quite as far"? Or if anyone cares to interpret those comments?

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Not about 26.6, but I believe it worths to read.

May enjoy it.

Charly

 

[dfreed]

And least we forget: here is the link to the PDF of his two-volume Yi