Choosing a last name

[Merengue]

I'm engaged to be married, and my partner and I have been thinking about names: Should I take his last name? Should he take mine? Should we each keep our original names? I find myself getting stuck as I ponder what significance last names truly have. A last name is usually passed down generationally. If my partner and I have children, will the last name we choose influence our children's sense of familial and cultural identity? I have a Chinese last name, whereas my husband's name/background is European. I'm mixed-race but pass for white; however, I grew up with my Chinese grandparents in a predominantly Asian community. I assume that if I have children with my partner, they will look mostly Caucasian, and since I have no living extended family members and now live in a predominantly white community, I'm guessing my hypothetical children will not identify with Chinese culture at all. Perhaps part of me wants to cling to some remnant of my Chinese heritage, because I felt tempted when my fiancé offered to change his last name to mine. He seems very open to this idea; however, he has a large and close-knit family, and they are quite proud of their name; I suspect they would be disappointed if he legally changed his name to mine. I don't want this decision to cause unnecessary tension with my future in-laws.

My intuition is that I should cleave to tradition and change my name to his. I decided to ask the Yi to help me reflect on this.

1) What will result if my partner and I choose [my last name] as our family name?
5.3.5 to 19

2) What will result if my partner and I choose [his last name] as our family name?
19 uc

3) What will result if my partner keeps his last name, and I keep my maiden name?
54 uc

The recurrence of hexagram 19 was interesting to me, and I found Hilary's comments about its connection to ancestors interesting, because I was thinking about how names connect us to our ancestry and family lineage. 54 also seems very relevant but I'm not quite sure how to interpret it in this context. Any thoughts you have would be much appreciated. Thank you!

 

[RemRem]

Hi Merengue,

Rem here. Your reading is understanding multiple options and examining them each. Here's my take on your reading:

Your questions:
1 What will result if my partner and I choose [my last name] as our family name? 5.3.5 to 19

2 What will result if my partner and I choose [his last name] as our family name? 19 uc

3 What will result if my partner keeps his last name, and I keep my maiden name? 54 uc

Reading #1

Question: Choosing your last name as your family name (which is Chinese)
Reading: 5.3.5 to 19

H5 is waiting.
It is also a process.
As a family name, your heritage will shine (shines out...)
It will go a long way (cross great river)

With that family name, everyone in the family strives to learn (eat), be inspired (drink), find solace (relaxes...) and create more (...with music) from your own heritage and culture.

But thinking only of its negative impact (waiting in the bog...) will only draw negative impact (...arrival of robbers)

It's best to come from the learning and inspiration (waiting with food and drink)

So you continue to get in touch with your heritage (H19 nearing) and continue to share and remember it (...teaches and reflects untiringly) And embrace and grow it more (accepts and protects people without limit)

Reading #2

Question: What will result if my partner and I choose [his last name] as our family name?
Reading: H19 unchanging

It also has the same effect, but this will be on your husband's heritage, not yours.


Reading #3

Question:
What will result if my partner keeps his last name, and I keep my maiden name?
Reading: H54 unchanging

H54 is Marrying maiden
She's not the queen, but still married to the king
So it's a second best marriage.
Which means a good compromise. Both are happy and satisfied, even without getting the most ideal.

---

I hope these readings help you. Merengue

 

[my_key]

1) What will result if my partner and I choose [my last name] as our family name?
5.3.5 to 19

This situation rests in a context of welcoming the arrival of something new (19) and being guided to attend to what is needed (5). It may be worth considering what are the needs of all concerned here.
5.3 - While in this state of waiting ( deciding what name to choose) you have become bogged down. 'Robbers' in the form of negative influences appear at the threshold of your inner world. Avoid the ambush!
5.5 - Enjoy the banquet laid out in front of you right now. Eat, drink and be merry and take in what you need to keep the robbers at bay. Approaching the decision from a place where you feel fully nourished and so with constancy will bring good fortune.

2) What will result if my partner and I choose [his last name] as our family name?
19 uc

Unchanging hexagrams indicate that a strong status quo is in place around the situation. Something is waiting to be seen in this situation and so reaching out, maybe even asking for help or guidance) will allow what needs to be seen to be seen.
Nearing calls for constancy and warns against the pitfall of arriving at a harvest too soon ( eighth month). The guidance here calls for careful sharing of new themes and giving everything careful consideration.

A noble one teaches and reflects untiringly,
Accepts and protects the people without limit.’

Other commentaries link 19 to the ceremonies of the ancestors and giving careful consideration to the souls of the ancestors, honouring their death through funeral ceremonies and appropriate mourning . Maybe they are a concerned party in this decision making process and need 'accepting and protecting'.

3) What will result if my partner keeps his last name, and I keep my maiden name? 54 uc

Hex 54 talks of a hasty transformation that is out of your control. Ending up here comes as an unexpected solution and may not be fruitful. It has a meaning of 'completion for the woman' so perhaps gaining understanding of whether this is a 'compromise' or is a strengthening of your sense of self......... or something else.

A noble one uses what is enduring and complete
In order to determine what is flawed

The recurrence of hexagram 19 was interesting to me, and I found Hilary's comments about its connection to ancestors interesting, because I was thinking about how names connect us to our ancestry and family lineage. 54 also seems very relevant but I'm not quite sure how to interpret it in this context. Any thoughts you have would be much appreciated. Thank you!

It's always a good idea to consider the wellbeing of the ancestors and to ask for their guidance.

...or it may be nothing like this at all for you.

Good Luck

 

[bologna_tendra]

What about a double-barrelled name

 

[moss elk]

Since there is no bun in the oven yet,
(or cauldron a-boil)
and the lines show
3-getting bogged down
(your stuck thinking/feeling now)
5-encouragement to enjoy this time and not worry so much.

I think, maybe not even think about this right now? Wait to Approach this.

----------------------------------

Non-reading comments:
Of course the only biologically based choice of surname would be the mother's name, due to mitochondrial dna.
In the future, humans may all choose this.

A big concern for children though is wanting to fit in. (and not be teased: careful what the name rhymes with! trust me on this!!
The kids let me know that mine ryhms with
1-an article of womens clothing
+ a bodily function)
Hilary can guess it.
So, they often want a name that isn't entirely different from the society where they will grow up.
A middle name from the distant culture
could be a nice compromise, like something to share when they choose to.
Other could be local 1st name and any last. This should be a joyous thing,
allow it to be.

 

[Merengue]

I hope these readings help you.

YES, so helpful! Thank you, Rem. I hadn't considered the possibility that 5.3 might reflect my own worries/negative thinking, and I like your interpretation of the Marrying Maiden as a compromise. I really appreciate the time you took to respond with these insights.

 

[Merengue]

Approaching the decision from a place where you feel fully nourished and so with constancy will bring good fortune.

Such a wealth of good ideas to contemplate here, Mike -- thank you for your response! This suggestion in particular -- to attend to the present, welcome the arrival of something new, and "enjoy the banquet" -- is helping me realize that I can shift the attitude from which I make this decision, and that will impact the outcome.

Hex 54 talks of a hasty transformation that is out of your control. Ending up here comes as an unexpected solution and may not be fruitful. It has a meaning of 'completion for the woman' so perhaps gaining understanding of whether this is a 'compromise' or is a strengthening of your sense of self......... or something else.

This point is also really interesting to me. I'm not quite sure what 'completion for the woman' means in this case, but I'm beginning to think the notion of compromise is more complex than I had initially considered, and I'll have to think more about what is actually being compromised in this context.

It's always a good idea to consider the wellbeing of the ancestors and to ask for their guidance.

I completely agree.

 

[Merengue]

What about a double-barrelled name

A hyphenated name would be very long and unwieldy in this case, unfortunately!

 

[Merengue]

I think, maybe not even think about this right now? Wait to Approach this.

This is definitely a possibility! I have a tendency to get ahead of myself and overthink things, so this certainly wouldn't be the first time the Yi has encouraged me to show patience

This should be a joyous thing,
allow it to be.

Thank you for the advice and suggestions. It really means a lot to me, and I needed that reminder to stop fretting and enjoy this process

 

[RemRem]

YES, so helpful! Thank you, Rem. I hadn't considered the possibility that 5.3 might reflect my own worries/negative thinking, and I like your interpretation of the Marrying Maiden as a compromise. I really appreciate the time you took to respond with these insights.

No worries, Merengue. Sure sure! Happy to know it's helpful for you. I wish you the best in choosing your family name. (And since you're using the Yijing, perhaps the ancestors have already nudged you a bit where they want your heart to settle.)

 

[Olga Super Star]

Hallo Merengue!

Last names have a lot of significance but foreign names don’t necessarily mean that one will feel detached or an outsider.
Sometimes they remind you of your origins and push you to do research on your ancestors

I guess you live into a very multicultural society anyway.

Unfortunately women tend to bend to the male’s family, we still have an inner feeling that we are worth less, and that a foreign name is worth less.

Can you just add his name to yours but then give your children your name?or is this not allowed?

 

[my_key]

I've just realised that my sister has made a statement about her birth surname. She and her partner have not married and so each has retained their own surname and now have two grown up kids. However each child was given as the last of their 'middle names' her birth surname. The children have their fathers surname, but when writing their names out in full, for forms or on passports, there is a recognition of her surname with it even coming before that of her male partner.​

So, say she has a birth surname of Jones and her partners surname is Smith her son known as John Smith has a full name of John Edward Simon Jones Smith.

Likewise I know a lady who had a long double barrelled name from birth, constituting 15 letters in total, who when she married became Mrs Charlotte Double-Barrelled-Smith. She later shortened her surname slightly, becoming Mrs Charlotte DoubleBarrelled-Smith. Her husband retains his Mr Smith name having not engaged with any double barrelledness or triple barrelledness .

All the names used here have been changed to protect the innocent.

 

[Merengue]

Unfortunately women tend to bend to the male’s family, we still have an inner feeling that we are worth less, and that a foreign name is worth less.

True. Some of these atavistic social norms are still so pervasive in our culture!

Can you just add his name to yours but then give your children your name?or is this not allowed?

Definitely a possibility. I was hoping to simplify and have one name for everyone in the family, but that might not work out, so your suggestion is a really good compromise. My parents gave me two last names on all my legal documents (but I just use one of them), and I suppose there's no harm in adding another last name haha

 

[Merengue]

I've just realised that my sister has made a statement about her birth surname. She and her partner have not married and so each has retained their own surname and now have two grown up kids. However each child was given as the last of their 'middle names' her birth surname. The children have their fathers surname, but when writing their names out in full, for forms or on passports, there is a recognition of her surname with it even coming before that of her male partner.​

So, say she has a birth surname of Jones and her partners surname is Smith her son known as John Smith has a full name of John Edward Simon Jones Smith.

Likewise I know a lady who had a long double barrelled name from birth, constituting 15 letters in total, who when she married became Mrs Charlotte Double-Barrelled-Smith. She later shortened her surname slightly, becoming Mrs Charlotte DoubleBarrelled-Smith. Her husband retains his Mr Smith name having not engaged with any double barrelledness or triple barrelledness .

All the names used here have been changed to protect the innocent.

This is really interesting! My parents did something similar with me: legally, I have two last names -- my mom's and dad's -- but I just use one of them. I also have two middle names, one English and one Chinese. I wouldn't mind the double barrelledness if it weren't such a bureaucratic pain in the neck sometimes. Plus, I worry if I add another name it might sound like a law firm haha

 

[Olga Super Star]

You know I have designed a perfectly balanced surname system that would eliminate all this chaos and difficulties.

Two surnames, one from your mother and one from your father. (Children with Single parents can just take both surnames from the mother). Then when the children have children of their own the girls will pass their Mother s names, and the boys their Father s.

So nothing changes for men (they will continue to give their names to the male child) and women will start their own line of heritage, their genealogy line.

What do you think? Don’t I deserve a prize?

 

[bologna_tendra]

Or perhaps another way is don't keep either name like when Prince changed his name to just a symbol, and you could be the person formerly known as Merengue, and for your children should you have them you can call them things like "cosmic abundance" in some other language such as Hawaiian

 

[Merengue]

Two surnames, one from your mother and one from your father. (Children with Single parents can just take both surnames from the mother). Then when the children have children of their own the girls will pass their Mother s names, and the boys their Father s.

I love this idea! It feels very balanced and sensible!

 

[Merengue]

Or perhaps another way is don't keep either name like when Prince changed his name to just a symbol, and you could be the person formerly known as Merengue, and for your children should you have them you can call them things like "cosmic abundance" in some other language such as Hawaiian

Haha, I almost wish I were bold enough to pull that off!