Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
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Phone/ Voicemail:
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Mustafa, the thread isn't about whether you believe in ancestors or not, or what your religion is.Qur'an 2:21 O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous...
Yi can/will give me a useful response in the same way it would a murderous sociopath ... or even a lawyer or politician.
Mustafa, I appreciate your telling me one last thing ; and really no one is keeping score ....I'll tell you one last thing, and if I don't score - I'm out:
The Qur'an in Chapter 1 It is short (which is one prayer that we should say,) says:
"In The Name of The Lord of The Worlds, Lead us to the Straight Path, not this not that".
In chapter 2 it says:
"Alif Lam Min
This book therein there's no doubt
a gift to "The Defensive", who Believe in The UNSEEN and from what we have given them spend".
Back to the question...
From my perspective I would say it is more of a philosophical text, probably because of my western upbringing.The Yijing is a Chinese religious text.
I don't believe that there is any pre-requisites to develop wisdom or a deep compassionate interest in the welfare of human beings before we are 'allowed' to join / rejoin our ancestors. It may well be a subset of all that is who are benevolent and wise that offer their services to the ardent seeker.This view resonates to some extent with me. I imagine we don’t just rejoin as it were without first developing wisdom and a deep compassionate interest in the welfare of human beings.
Divination hath been anciently and fitly divided into artificial and natural; whereof artificial is when the mind maketh a prediction by argument, concluding upon signs and tokens: natural is when the mind hath a presention by an internal power, without the inducement of a sign. [Francis Bacon, "The Advancement of Learning," 1605]
It'd be interesting to know how you read/understand Hexagram 4's Judgement where the Oracle makes a self-reference.All I can offer are impressions.
I do not have a sense of communicating with personalities.
I guess more needs to be said on my part to do with the term 'ancestors' and the beliefs surrounding the process of 'what happens when one dies'. But that would be a long-drawn discussion that would digress significantly away from the present topic; moreover such a discussion isn't really about exploring divination. That said, I'd go with your "a subset of all that is who are benevolent and wise that offer their services to the ardent seeker."I don't believe that there is any pre-requisites to develop wisdom or a deep compassionate interest in the welfare of human beings before we are 'allowed' to join / rejoin our ancestors. It may well be a subset of all that is who are benevolent and wise that offer their services to the ardent seeker.
On a finer note, just to play the devil's advocate, i wonder if your articulated conception can be applied to another divination system, the Tarot cards for example.
It'd be interesting to know how you read/understand Hexagram 4's Judgement where the Oracle makes a self-reference.
Hi my_keyHi fai_35
A million libraries across different cultures are filled with varying conceptions of this topic. Ancient concepts outlining the esoteric meanings of the ancestors , the roles they play, and the perspectives of death and bardo are also in great abundance. I'm not sure that there is much we can add that has not already been written. I'm happy to hear your perspective though.
I like your Confucian quote on ancestors and the duality of knowing and not knowing - a case of now you see them now you don't.The question is – are the ancestors there to receive the offerings? Here, a story attributed to Confucius might reveal a stance that I share. He was once asked and his response: it would be unenlightened to believe that they are and unkind to say that they are not. Sagely words I’d say.
Disagree. It's the one pulling on the rope to lift the bucket to draw water from the well. And his answers will be no better than his own mind can discover.
Tyger, looks like there is no response from bradford.
Before I respond, what is your conception of who is responding when you are divining with the Yi?
TygerChild, I don't know what you mean but the phrases "I AM" or "there is no manifestation" or how you're applying these to the question: whom or what is responding with the Yi? It sounds decidedly new-age or perhaps even religious to me ....
The Yi was written well within the time of "I AMs' (e.g human history) and well within the time of "manifestion" - when the planet, stuff, people, animals, the universe, etc. existed. So if you'd like - as one of the curious, but un-initiated - I would like to know if you'd care to explain and say more about this.
All the best ....
Hi Freedda,
The 'I AM' is a statement of existence that predates all religious concepts. Another 'term' for this is Consciousness or Awareness. This comes from the non-dual understanding, from what is known as Advaita Vedanta. Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi encouraged the 'meditation' on the I AM.
I hope that helps?
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).