Conflicting lines hex 6 lines 2 & 5

[maremaria]

Hi people,

I had a reading and was given as an answer 6.2.5 .

Line 2 says “don’t contend”.
Looks like we are not in a position to argue, fight so the best thing we have to do is to retreat from that situation.

Line 5 says “contend” .
You are in a strong position to do that and the results will be positive.


I wonder in such cases, as the above example , how do you use the oracle’s answer ?

In my case the question was “how to proceed ?” and has to do with a project I’m into , so I thought that maybe the advise here is : observe and measure the situation and based on your abilities or position either contend or not.

I’d like to hear how do you deal when the lines you are give are that conflicting.

Thanks in advance,
Maria

 

[meng]

Hi Maria,

By discriminating when and when not to contend, or in which matters. I think the entire theme of 6 deals with letting a lot of things go, but not letting things which deserve a hearing go unheard.

 

[maremaria]

Yes Meng , I see what do you mean. Discriminate, make a lots of sense here.

Thanks

 

[fkegan]

Hi maremaria,

There is a fundamental conflict between the words of the commentaries, line-by-line and the needs of oracle interpretation when there is more than one moving line. The individual line commentary is meant to distinguish situations when one and only one of hexagram lines moves. In multi-moving line oracles, the commentaries are a bit out of their depth.

Each oracle has an overall image or gestalt which must be found first, then the commentary for each individual line can be viewed in light of the overall whole.

You speak of an oracle in response to the question "How do I proceed now with my project" with the Yi replying Hex 6.2,5 >>hex 35. In Flux Tome names that would be Striving >>the Rising Son (or Sun). The central line pair of structure (line 2) and overall organization (line 5) are expressing and exhausting themselves, changing the oracle hexagram toward the resultant which has its overall organization and specific structure now background (Yin) and only the image of the heart (line place 4) and the transition to the next (line place 6) remaining focus (Yang).

This suggests an overall pattern of letting go of tight control of the details, holding firm only to the feelings and image of what you want the project to achieve and the work in making the transition to its next phase, or achievement.

Working within that overall gestalt, then it is time to consider the words of the Wilhelm commentary: line 2 "One cannot engage in conflict, one returns home, gives way." This would be the first step in the advise to you and it is all about letting go of your tight control.

line 5: To contend before Him brings supreme good fortune.

After letting go of personal positions, then to argue your case before an objective arbiter (or group as a whole as community) capable of deciding what should be the best total outcome for all involved-- would work out very well.

It is not a conflict between contending and not contending, rather to let go of your personal contentions to seek what is the best next step. Then the resultant hexagram of hex 35 describes the excellent prince who rallies the feudal lords in service of the King and thus for the overall public good.

Frank

 

[maremaria]

Thank Frank for your detailed explanations.

This situation has an inner conflict as well as an outer conflict. Not surprised when I got 6

This suggests an overall pattern of letting go of tight control of the details, holding firm only to the feelings and image of what you want the project to achieve and the work in making the transition to its next phase, or achievement.

I was discussing with a friend about those conflicts and somehow reach at something similar to what you say. The details or lets say practical things , in this particular situation, are what create the conflict but also could show the way and solve the conflict.

Maybe, after all ,those lines are not that conflicting.

 

[fkegan]

Hi maremaria,
The lines of an oracle never conflict, the words of the commentary about those lines are what may conflict, though in this case even the words indicate a clear difference. Line 2 is about not contending for your own position while line 5 is about submitting the contention to an outside arbiter to resolve. You still submit your brief as it were, only not from a position of partisan as is counseled against in line 2 but rather as a neutral though knowledgeable party submitting the facts openly for the process to come to the best result.

Glad my technical remarks were of service to your understanding...
Frank

 

[maremaria]

Thank you Frank.

Maria

 

[charly]

...
I had a reading and was given as an answer 6.2.5 .
... In my case the question was “how to proceed ?” and has to do with a project I’m into , so I thought that maybe the advise here is : observe and measure the situation and based on your abilities or position either contend or not.
...

Hi, Maria:

Sometimes things are not what they seem.

We have been told that H.6 is about litigations, legal disputes, but the character 訟song4 (litigation) depicts at the left a mouth issuing words (to talk is a female virtue) and at the right two legs with a ball in beteen, the character gong (duke / male) the person or animal that although not the higher ruler, is in use of the effective power.

Maybe disputes between reason and power ?

... the disputes in question were likely enought to concern the distribution of war booty...
Arthur Waley

Given that H.6 begins with 有you3 孚fu2 «having captives» we can suppose that the booty were war captives, say mainly female slaves, disputes so dangerous like this between Agamemnon (the King) and Achilles (the Hero) on the posession of Briseis.

6.2 chinese text and temporary translation:

不bu4: no / not
克ke4: to overcome / to be able / can
訟song4: litigation / to contend

歸gui1: to go back / to return
而er2: and / as well as / but (not)
逋bu1: flee / abscond
其qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / it
邑yi4: town / city / settlement

人ren2: man / person / people
三san1: three / 3
百bai3: hundred
戶hu4: a household / door / family

无wu2: without / not / no
眚sheng3: error
​

NOT ABLE TO CONTEND
if cann't oppose


GO BACK BUT NOT FLEE (TO) THAT TOWN
not fly away but go home


PEOPLE (FROM) 300 HOUSEHOLDS
so many people


NO ERROR
cann't be wrong​

6.5 chinese text and temporary translation:

訟song4: litigation / dispute / to contend

元yuan2: primary / first / supreme
吉ji2: lucky / good luck​

(IN) DISPUTES (THE) FIRST (IS) GOOD LUCK
in war affairs the most important is to have good luck
luck depends on the begining (to begin stepping with the right foot)

​

Also maybe love disputes, courtship, when boys and girls talk interchanging compliments and mockeries, provoking each other, so happens in the Book of Odes. Contending and joking in order to get a lucky begining.

What about your project?

Don't make of your project a game of war. Make of it a gift of love.

Best regards,

Charly

 

[maremaria]

We have been told that H.6 is about litigations, legal disputes, but the character 訟song4 (litigation) depicts at the left a mouth issuing words (to talk is a female virtue) and at the right two legs with a ball in beteen, the character gong (duke / male) the person or animal that although not the higher ruler, is in use of the effective power.

Maybe disputes between reason and power ?

Thanks Charly,

I have read something similar at Lise's site where she names Hex 6 "The Gong speaks"

"Maybe disputes between reason and power ?" interesting approach.

Don't make of your project a game of war. Make of it a gift of love

.

that is my intention

Maria

 

[rosada]

I find the multiple lines describe upcoming events or awarenesses in the order they will arrive. So with 6.2 you might first realize you need to pick your battles and not contend but wait for a more clearcut opportunity which will come with 6.5 Then you will be able to state your case to the top judge, 35, and get a fair ruling.

 

[charly]

... I have read something similar at Lise's site where she names Hex 6 "The Gong speaks" ...

Hi, Maria:

And LiSe speaks about Gongs contending for female slaves? Or Gongs contendig with their wives or brides?

I love LiSe Book of Moon.

Yours,

Charly

 

[maremaria]

I find the multiple lines describe upcoming events or awarenesses in the order they will arrive. So with 6.2 you might first realize you need to pick your battles and not contend but wait for a more clearcut opportunity which will come with 6.5 Then you will be able to state your case to the top judge, 35, and get a fair ruling.

Hi Rosada,
sorry but i couldn't respond earlier.
I don't understand where did you see those "upcoming events " but unexpectedly so events come (not a pleasant one ). There where some change in the day this project will continue to run , but I can't follow because of other obligations that i can't change. So, regarding that project, I'll have to reatreat and go home .

 

[rosada]

Well, I was thinking of a series of events in my life that fit with 6.2.5 > 35. I was working as a day camp group leader. The director of the came was mentally imbalanced and would from time to time when she had nothing better to do, attack her staff and verbally abuse us in front of the whole group. She did this to me. The first time I silently endured her tirade because I didn't want to create a scene with all the little children there. Thus 6.2 like I could not engage in conflict and 300 households remained free of having to hear about this nut. However, the second time she attacked me she did it with only adult witnesses. I walked off the job and applied for unemployment. At first the lower flunkies at Unemployment denied my claim but I insisted on taking it to higher levels. Eventually my case made it to a judge as in 6.5. When I spoke to her in person she immediately found in my favor : 35, being granted audience and speaking for yourself, brightening your own bright virtue.

So my point is, when you receive multiple lines, they don't necessarily cancel each other out, but can describe a series of events that will take place leading up to the change to the second hexagram.

 

[maremaria]

Thanks for explaining and sharing this story Rosada.

Now.... when are you going to write them down in a book ?

Maria

 

[maremaria]

Hi, Maria:

And LiSe speaks about Gongs contending for female slaves? Or Gongs contendig with their wives or brides?

I love LiSe Book of Moon.

Yours,

Charly

Hi Charly,

I didn't found something about females slave .