Contradictory messages?

[Marinaflsenda]

Dear all,

Sometimes I find I ching messages quiete contradictory and I don´t know which advices I should follow or take by trusting. Maybe could you help me here?

Two months ago, I asked about a relationship, as my exboyfriend texted me after a few months of breaking up (he was the one who broke up). I ignored his text and I asked the I ching if that was for me the right thing to do.
The book answered hexagram 35, lines 2 and 3, so this below:

Six in second place means: "Progressing but with sadness. The Perseverance brings good fortune. Great happiness is obtained from an ancestor".
Progress is halted. One finds impediments to uniting with the man who occupies a position of authority to whom one is related.
When this happens one must persevere and finally the man in question will bring great happiness.
This happiness comes in a well-deserved way, because this mutual attraction is not founded on selfish motives.

Six in the third place means: "All agree. The remorse disappears".
One strives to move forward in company with others whose agreement encourages us. The underlined message is: "distance increases love and affection".

So my reading is that I was doing the right thing to do plus potentially he would come back to the relationship.

Yesterday, two months later, without having any news yet from the man in question, I asked again how the situation was developing and it said: 23, line 3, so:

"You may need to leave a difficult relationship. Others may be going in a direction that is not right for you.

"You separate from them. No reproaches."
One is attached to a bad circumstance.

Breakup and separation line. Wilhelm stresses the bad atmosphere surrounding the querent due to lack of true love."


Then, what happened with the first oracule? It has nothing to do with the second one. First oracule is auspicous and seems to predict a reunion, but the second one announces a separation.

Why so different readings for teh same question? Which one is the good one?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[rosada]

I see 35.2.3 as saying it was up to you to choose if you wanted to reconnect with your friend and 23 as indicating you decided not to.

 

[Marinaflsenda]

I see 35.2.3 as saying it was up to you to choose if you wanted to reconnect with your friend and 23 as indicating you decided not to.

Hmmm, that´s a different point of view but too reductionist for me. In fact, the first reading was already agreeing with me not reconnecting with him and also predicting a nice ending for us so it is the secong reading which drives me nuts. One of them is wrong as both are contradictory. In my opinion, of course.

 

[rosada]

Using the Wilhelm translation, here’s my thinking:
35. Is made up of Fire above and Heaven below. So the sun on its own, high in the sky. The Image says this indicates “The superior man himself brightens his bright virtue”. So from this I get that 35 represents a situation where the person asking the question has a lot of power to create what they want.
35.2
“Progressing but in sorrow” You, sad about the break up but moving on.
”Perseverance brings good fortune” Advice to keep moving on.
”Then one obtains great happiness from one’s ancestor” Could this represent you getting the text from your old friend?
35.3
”All are in accord. Remorse disappears.” This is where it gets tricky. At first it sounds like you and your ex being in accord, but you weren’t. I mean, even though you may have been pleased to get the text you chose to ignore it, like you stayed in accord with your earlier decision, and kept moving forward.
Anyway, I’m just trying to figure out how to make the reading fit with what actually happened.
So sorry you are having to go through this!
Perhaps 35 means it’s not too late to respond to his text?

 

[Liselle]

Adding to the possibilities: you asked if it was the right thing to do, and Yi said "All agree, remorse disappears," meaning (edit - or could mean, at least) it agrees it was the right thing to do and that eventually you won't mind.

Commentaries can be very helpful, but it can be a good idea not to look at anyone's right away. It's someone's interpretation of what Yi says, not what Yi really says. In this case the line texts by themselves sound a lot less like a reunion than the commentary makes it seem.

 

[Marinaflsenda]

Thanks for your feedback @rosada , but me ignoring his text was the right thing to do according to 35.3 line and also I know I did the right thing as per how things ended up as he wasn´t very respectfull towards me and I felt very confident when ignoring him.

"The ancestor" is the metaphore of him approaching to me in a lovely manner AFTER THE TEXT and that is what never happened.

And now 23.3 sais I should get separated from him definitely.

Well, anyway, I guess I will never know the meaning of these

 

[Marinaflsenda]

Adding to the possibilities: you asked if it was the right thing to do, and Yi said "All agree, remorse disappears," meaning it agrees it was the right thing to do and that eventually you won't mind.

Commentaries can be very helpful, but it can be a good idea not to look at anyone's right away. It's someone's interpretation of what Yi says, not what Yi really says. In this case the line texts by themselves sound a lot less like a reunion than the commentary makes it seem.

Ok, @Liselle, thanks, so comments don´t worth to be used in a reading then. Thanks for the advice. Sometimes I read them, especially when I don´t understand the content of the line itself.

 

[Liselle]

They're not completely useless, I didn't mean it to sound like that. It can also help to look at more than one, as many as you have access to. A lot of people's ideas put together, you can see what they have in common and how they're different and so on.

 

[Marinaflsenda]

Thanks again @Liselle The book I use is the Richard Wilheim´s, so I read the lines and comments on it as it is very difficult to get a proper response based only in the Yi text due to its complexity and also metaphores and old China related paragraphs. So comments are extremely useful for me and, as I said, the ones I wrote above are the ones appearing on Wilheims version, which I think is one of the most accepted ones.

 

[Hans__]

Then, what happened with the first oracule? It has nothing to do with the second one. First oracule is auspicous and seems to predict a reunion,

H32.2.3 <> H50 was the answer to

I ignored his text and I asked the I ching if that was for me the right thing to do.

and not on whether you would get back together.
H35 Image text says:

Thus the superior person stands firm
And does not change his direction.

In my opinion, you do need to see the 2nd and 3rd line texts in the context of your question and not suddenly change it to whether you are getting back together because the Yi does not answer that in this case.
The text of the 2nd line says:

Progressing, but in grief and apprehension.
Perseverance brings good fortune.
...

In other words, continuing on this path of ignoring his messages is wise, however difficult it may be at times.
The text of the 3rd line says:

Everyone trusts him.
Regrets vanish.

When you are firm in your behaviour (see text Image) it inspires trust, the other person knows where they stand.

Yesterday, two months later, without having any news yet from the man in question, I asked again how the situation was developing and it said: 23, line 3,

H23 is the end of a process. The lower trigram Earth changes to Mountain due to the moving line at the 3rd position.
This is about ending dependency. Earth with a moving line at the 3rd position is a "victim" of its own emotions.
Mountain advises putting an end to that, putting down a strong "I". Set boundaries.
So the 3rd line text is not literally advice to break up with him, because you have already done that. It is, however, advice to detach from him emotionally as well.

So both answers, as I see it, do not contradict each other. When asking a question, though, it is important to interpret the answer within the context of the question and not change the context halfway through based on the answer.

This would be my interpretation. As always, take what resonates and leave the rest

 

[Marinaflsenda]

H32.2.3 <> H50 was the answer to

and not on whether you would get back together.
H35 Image text says:

In my opinion, you do need to see the 2nd and 3rd line texts in the context of your question and not suddenly change it to whether you are getting back together because the Yi does not answer that in this case.
The text of the 2nd line says:

In other words, continuing on this path of ignoring his messages is wise, however difficult it may be at times.
The text of the 3rd line says:

When you are firm in your behaviour (see text Image) it inspires trust, the other person knows where they stand.


H23 is the end of a process. The lower trigram Earth changes to Mountain due to the moving line at the 3rd position.
This is about ending dependency. Earth with a moving line at the 3rd position is a "victim" of its own emotions.
Mountain advises putting an end to that, putting down a strong "I". Set boundaries.
So the 3rd line text is not literally advice to break up with him, because you have already done that. It is, however, advice to detach from him emotionally as well.

So both answers, as I see it, do not contradict each other. When asking a question, though, it is important to interpret the answer within the context of the question and not change the context halfway through based on the answer.

This would be my interpretation. As always, take what resonates and leave the rest

Thank you very much, it helps a lot.

 

[Marinaflsenda]

H32.2.3 <> H50 was the answer to

and not on whether you would get back together.
H35 Image text says:

In my opinion, you do need to see the 2nd and 3rd line texts in the context of your question and not suddenly change it to whether you are getting back together because the Yi does not answer that in this case.
The text of the 2nd line says:

In other words, continuing on this path of ignoring his messages is wise, however difficult it may be at times.
The text of the 3rd line says:

When you are firm in your behaviour (see text Image) it inspires trust, the other person knows where they stand.


H23 is the end of a process. The lower trigram Earth changes to Mountain due to the moving line at the 3rd position.
This is about ending dependency. Earth with a moving line at the 3rd position is a "victim" of its own emotions.
Mountain advises putting an end to that, putting down a strong "I". Set boundaries.
So the 3rd line text is not literally advice to break up with him, because you have already done that. It is, however, advice to detach from him emotionally as well.

So both answers, as I see it, do not contradict each other. When asking a question, though, it is important to interpret the answer within the context of the question and not change the context halfway through based on the answer.

This would be my interpretation. As always, take what resonates and leave the rest

What it was confusing to me was the secons line of 35 hexagram, as per James Legger´s book it means one recovers relation with the subject of the 5th line who´s separated from. But I guess there are several meanings, the book is always a mistery to me.
"The second line, divided, shows its subject
with the appearance of advancing, and yet of being
sorrowful. If he be firm and correct, there will be
good fortune. He will receive this great blessing
from his grandmother."

 

[Hans__]

What it was confusing to me was the secons line of 35 hexagram, as per James Legger´s book it means one recovers relation with the subject of the 5th line who´s separated from. But I guess there are several meanings, the book is always a mistery to me.
"The second line, divided, shows its subject
with the appearance of advancing, and yet of being
sorrowful. If he be firm and correct, there will be
good fortune. He will receive this great blessing
from his grandmother."

I think Legge puts a bit too much emphasis on the relationships between the lines without giving a clear explanation of what that means for interpretation. Technically, what is said is all true, but it contributes nothing to interpretation, in my opinion.
The actual oracle text (as above), however, paints more or less the same picture. Continuing on the path taken, but with doubt and uncertainty as to whether it is the right path. Just like you decided not to respond to a text from your ex, but afterwards doubted whether that was the right choice.

 

[Marinaflsenda]

I think Legge puts a bit too much emphasis on the relationships between the lines without giving a clear explanation of what that means for interpretation. Technically, what is said is all true, but it contributes nothing to interpretation, in my opinion.
The actual oracle text (as above), however, paints more or less the same picture. Continuing on the path taken, but with doubt and uncertainty as to whether it is the right path. Just like you decided not to respond to a text from your ex, but afterwards doubted whether that was the right choice.

You´re right. Normally I follow Legge and Wilheim books in all my readings because both of them are the most recommanded ones in the forums I have visited about Yi and it seems there is no unanimous opinion about the best interpretations book, so what I usually do, as you also said is to believe in what resonates me, hahaha, and see what happens next. Thanks for your lines anyway, it really gave me a new point of view I hadn´t considerated.