Darkest to brightest trigrams

[_Roras_]

Hi again everybody.

I'm trying to work out the order the trigrams would be from the darkest (Kun) to the brightest (Qian).

Is this the correct order?

Kun
Gen
Kan
Zhen
Dui
Li
Xun
Qian

Any help and explanations would be much appreciated.

 

[svenrus]

Hi _Roras_

I've been playing with a hierarchy-order:

http://svenrus.dk/thesixlinesa.pdf

... but this isn't from darkest to lightest in the sense I guess You ask for ? It's in relation to the six lines of the hexagram.

 

[cjgait]

Well, you have a kind of mirrored arrangement of the family order there, only with youngest, middle, eldest sons starting from Kun and the opposite order for the daughters coming from Qian.

I can't help but think that Li is brighter than Xun, though.

 

[sooo]

Sorry to sound like a party pooper but I'm missing the value and purpose of these generalizations. For me it is the blending of colors and scenes that make them light or dark, and those terms seem to limit the dynamics and usefulness of trigrams in the first place, since the contrasts and changes are conditional.

Kun during sunrise over the marsh is one of the brightest and inspiring moments of my life. Quian at midnight is itself dark, yet Li from far away heavenly bodies shine against its blackness, and a full moon is all the brighter, though in itself has no light. Wind or wood is still within the deep forest, but both dance and sing in the campfire. Water can sparkle or can be dark as death. I see no order of any permanence here, only a variety of potentials.

 

[svenrus]

Well, you have a kind of mirrored arrangement of the family order there, only with youngest, middle, eldest sons starting from Kun and the opposite order for the daughters coming from Qian.

I can't help but think that Li is brighter than Xun, though.

I agree, but also I'm aware that I've been playing with a hierarchy-order:.
I'm not sure whether I got it from Bradford or elsewhere, but in his vol. II, Yijing, Word by word, in the chapter 'The Yao Wei or Line positions, the lines of the hexagram is also compared with Parts of the body; I've been inspired to try taking other hierarchy orders into the six lines and must confess that The Rainbow is maybe a bit out of what one can accept in this relation.... I don't know, just playing with it. But also one can take the first, bottom line, to be pure light in it's awakening Yang-quality and from there being dimmer unto the top-line with it's dark "fading away" Yin-quality. Also the other way round the first, bottom line, being underground in darkness growing up into the light at top.
But to me, still it's a play with the possibilities.

 

[bradford]

How could Li, "Brightness", be so far down on your list?

 

[svenrus]

How could Li, "Brightness", be so far down on your list?

I'm not sure if it's me You ask, but if then I've placed the oldest familymembers on the upper, going, part as the youngest, I suppose, should be placed in the lower, coming, part and thereby Li, the middle daughter, will find her place on the fourth line... (as she's younger than Sun).

 

[bradford]

I'm not sure if it's me You ask, but if then I've placed the oldest familymembers on the upper, going, part as the youngest, I suppose, should be placed in the lower, coming, part and thereby Li, the middle daughter, will find her place on the fourth line... (as she's younger than Sun).

No, not you. What does what you said have to do with trigram brightness, or a list?

 

[_Roras_]

Hi _Roras_

I've been playing with a hierarchy-order:

http://svenrus.dk/thesixlinesa.pdf

... but this isn't from darkest to lightest in the sense I guess You ask for ? It's in relation to the six lines of the hexagram.

Thanks svenrus. No, I'm looking for the brightness of each trigram as it relates to the yin and yang of each line. For example, Qian is the brightest because its made up entirely of yang lines and Kun is the darkest because its made up entirely of yin lines. The rest fit somewhere in between...

 

[_Roras_]

Sorry to sound like a party pooper but I'm missing the value and purpose of these generalizations.

Hi sooo. I'm interested in the value of each trigram as regards its yin and yang lines. Qian is 'brighter' than Kun. That is not conditional upon anything except that Qian all yang lines and Kun is all yin lines.

 

[_Roras_]

How could Li, "Brightness", be so far down on your list?

Li is only seperated from Qian by Xun in my list, so if you think Li is the brightest of the son/daughter trigrams according to yin and yang lines then it could only go closer to Qian by one more space.

 

[_Roras_]

Well, you have a kind of mirrored arrangement of the family order there, only with youngest, middle, eldest sons starting from Kun and the opposite order for the daughters coming from Qian.

I think that happened because the sons are said to come from the Mother and the daughters from the Father. When I put them in the posted order I was more looking at the relationship of the lines within the trigram than familial relationaships between each trigram. It was just coincidence that there was a familial relationship, which is why I thought that might be the answer I was looking for.

 

[_Roras_]

I've just worked out the binary value of each trigram. Maybe this is closer?

Kun 000 0
Zhen 100 1
Kan 010 2
Dui 110 3
Gen 001 4
Li 101 5
Xun 011 6
Qian 111 7

The above list goes trigram name, binary number and then rank from darkest to brightest. I can't get the list to come out neatly.

Basically, what I'm after is how each trigram evolves from one to the other, ignoring any relationship between individual trigrams and ignoring any attributes or names given to the individual trigrams.

Thanks for all your replies so far.

 

[bradford]

I've just worked out the binary value of each trigram. Maybe this is closer?

Kun 000 0
Zhen 100 1
Kan 010 2
Dui 110 3
Gen 001 4
Li 101 5
Xun 011 6
Qian 111 7

The above list goes trigram name, binary number and then rank from darkest to brightest. I can't get the list to come out neatly.

Basically, what I'm after is how each trigram evolves from one to the other, ignoring any relationship between individual trigrams and ignoring any attributes or names given to the individual trigrams.

Thanks for all your replies so far.

You have the binary backwards. Dui, for instance, is 6, and Xun 3. You are not the only one to make this mistake though.

 

[_Roras_]

Thanks bradford. Can you tell me why trigrams are read from the top down? Hexagrams are read bottom up so I assumed trigrams were treated the same.

 

[_Roras_]

bradford, I've just read through your volume 1 of the Yijing and saw that you count the binary of both the trigrams and hexagrams from the top. I know it is usual to work out binary from left to right but why tip the trigrams and hexagrams clockwise and commence counting from what used to be the top? To me it would make sense to count from the bottom as that is how the figures are made up (bottom to top) and as the bottom line is oldest it would take on a larger number...maybe.

The binary may just be a side street in my search, though.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on how the trigrams between Kun and Qian should be listed to represent a progressive change from dark to light?

 

[bradford]

Bagua Dui = 110 = 4+2+0
= 0
+ 2
+ 4
Built from bottom to top just like the Gua Dui
110110
This is how it progresses in the Shao Yong arrangement (Xian Tian),
which was the original order.

 

[sooo]

Does anyone else have any thoughts on how the trigrams between Kun and Qian should be listed to represent a progressive change from dark to light?

Yes, in a circle. The sun (sort of an archetype of Li and Qian) is bright at midday and black at midnight.

Guess I'm not much help.

 

[_Roras_]

Thanks again bradford. I was in bed last night and thinking I wrote 'left to right' instead of right to left. And I did..

Then my thought train continued to what I just found sooo wrote.

Yes, in a circle. The sun (sort of an archetype of Li and Qian) is bright at midday and black at midnight.

Guess I'm not much help.

I'm really after how each trigram transforms into the next, just as day is transformed into night and agian into day, or the moon from full to new to full again, in a continuous cycle. I got a bit stuck on a linear change instead of a cyclic change, like a tidal chart, but probably more like a clock face. King Wen's arrangement seems wrong because Kun and Qian are too close to each other.

bradford, thanks for the binary hint. How does this look?

Kun 0
Gen 1
Kan 2
Xun 3
Zhen 4
Li 5
Dui 6
Qian 7

If you get to Qian and then reverse back through Dui,etc, to Kun, that's the affect I'm after.

Thanks sooo.

 

[sooo]

I'm really after how each trigram transforms into the next, just as day is transformed into night and agian into day, or the moon from full to new to full again, in a continuous cycle. I got a bit stuck on a linear change instead of a cyclic change, like a tidal chart, but probably more like a clock face.

I can't answer this from a sequential trigram perspective, but I find it interesting that what you describe is contained in 49 as Dui over Li. "A noble one, by regulating the times, makes the seasons clear."