Getting rid of someone Hex 27.4.6>51

[goddessliss]

A couple of weeks ago I inadvertently started a group called Creative Goddesses. It's for women to come together once a week enjoy each others company, bring their chosen creative craft/art to work on or just come to have a cuppa with likeminded others but there is no set agenda.
So far everyone's been lovely except one woman who has managed to upset a couple of us and we agreed that it would be good if she left. On Friday she sent me some nasty personal messages saying the group wasn't what she expected as she has a specific agenda and I responded saying it is what it is and suggested another place she may want to join but she said that didn't suit her either.
Unfortunately she hasn't gone away and is trying to integrate herself even more.

How can I get rid of this woman from the group

Hex 27.4.6>51

This reading seems to be a reflection of what the group is about and the fact that I unintentionally became the leader - I'm happy for me that I'm meeting likeminded and happy for others to join and get something out of it too. Part of it is to find a place to sell our creative pieces but not a necessity.

- Liss

 

[poised]

Getting rid of what you haven't got

What an interesting question.

I think the answer offers a different way to deal with this disruptive woman, a way that offers you an opportunity to work on yourself. Lucky you.

27.4
In DeKorne writes in his commentary on this line at http://www.jamesdekorne.com/GBCh/hex27.htm

The fourth line represents the minister: symbolically, the ego as facilitator of the Work in spacetime. The image of the tiger suggests the fervor of dedication to a higher idea.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Matthew 5: 6

A. A higher alliance creates the strength to manage inferior forces.

B. Turn toward your inner light, then reflect it into the world.

C. The ego follows higher principles to effect changes in subordinate entities.

27.6
And line six underlines the idea that, according to R.L. Wing,

"The person in this position has a highly developed sense of what is required in order to properly educate, influence, and nurture others. Should (s)he undertake this task, conscious of all the implications of his responsibilities, he will bring happiness to many."

Perhaps if you overwhelm her with kindness she will shape up. Or, if she's really a dedicated curmudgeon, she will leave on her own. Disruptive people like disrupting.
If their efforts have no effect on you and only make you nicer, kinder, sweeter, they often slink back into the woodwork.

Either way, you win.

Hope this helps. Let us know what happens.

 

[goddessliss]

Thanks poised - no that's fine. Anyone that knows here on Yi knows I mostly always suggest looking to self first.
I haven't got a problem with coming from a higher perspective and if my ego was dominating I would be arguing with her and have already told her to get lost - if she's there to help me learn whatever then I'm open to that but as usual learning does come in the mosty 'trying' ways sometimes.

- Liss

 

[sooo]

I didn't get that message from Poised in such a direct way, Liss, though maybe it was as you said. Rather I saw line 4 being the heart level and 6 as being the head level, both which this woman's ego is attached to. Whether or not yours is as well is for you to know. I think what matters is the welfare/nourishment of the group. The thunder may apply to this woman or to you or to the whole group. I do think it's necessary for the two of you to get onto the same page, and in this case I think the direct path is probably the best. If you are hosting the group, you should have a leadership role, and perhaps making a little thunder will clear the air and settle things down some. Then she can decide if this is for her or not. Limits and conditions are part of 27's message that apply to everyone in the group.

 

[pocossin]

How can I get rid of this woman from the group?
Hex 27.4.6>51

Meals are scheduled events. Don't tell her when and where the next meeting will be.

 

[poised]

Goddessliss, soo, I added some info to my original post

….to complete the thought. I hit the send button when I meant to hit space button. Need new glasses

 

[sooo]

I hit the send button when I meant to hit space button.

Was that the spacetime button?

 

[poised]

Cackle, cackle. Good one, sooo. Wish I had a space-time button, maybe on top of my cabeza. Oh, the possibilities

 

[goddessliss]

Pocossin - haha we meet at the same time and place every week, we've been really lucky through the generosity of someone to have space we have to meet.

Sooo and Poised - thank you both. I don't really have any ego attachment to the whole thing. All I want is a group where we all meet, enjoy and whatever evolves from the group is what evolves. I asked a couple of the women why they'd joined and they said for that exact reason, as it's easy going, no controlling and no agenda but I know there's 'always one' in every crowd who just has to be a dickhead.
Yes in my experience the less you react to their issues and the kinder you are the more they tie themselves in knots and ending up walking away although it's not always an easy thing to do depends what else is going on in your own World that day.

Thank you for your support and interpretations and confirming (it seems) I'm on the right track although it would have been preferable if Yi had said give her a hard smack and send her on her way!!

- Liss

 

[goddessliss]

Well she continued to disrupt and I continued to be kind but unfortunately today she just pushed it too far so I decided to remove her from the group - just waiting on the fallout from that.

 

[pocossin]

Well she continued to disrupt and I continued to be kind but unfortunately today she just pushed it too far so I decided to remove her from the group - just waiting on the fallout from that.

Apparently you have a banning ability that I do no know about. Well, welcome to the disciplinarian's club. Somebody must defend group interests against individualism and aggression. In my adventure into moderation, I have banned many at Clarity, some of whom I admired. I regret nothing, including my objection to totalitarian political correctness. Really, the issue is, What is best for us all?

 

[sooo]

Apparently you have a banning ability that I do no know about. Well, welcome to the disciplinarian's club. Somebody must defend group interests against individualism and aggression. In my adventure into moderation, I have banned many at Clarity, some of whom I admired. I regret nothing, including my objection to totalitarian political correctness. Really, the issue is, What is best for us all?

Let's see if I understand this. You are against individualism and totalitarianism? Individualism isn't the same as anarchism, and group harmony isn't the same as totalitarianism.

In a creatively functioning group there should be room for individualism and collective harmonizing. It's no different than a good band, like the Beatles.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Liss - BOOM! the sound of thunder has arrived. Please do let us know the results.

 

[butterfly spider]

I think it takes guts to remove anyone from a group. Hex 27 to me signifies trying to do something positive and bringing like minded people with you. It seems to me that this person will be difficult however you approach her behaviour. When faced with this you need to make roads to remove them ... Which you have done.

A friend of mine called such people low lives. I wouldn't exactly agree with them but it is not just you who will suffer ....

Well done and as long as you wish her well and have not taken the issue on yourself you will have taught her to behave better next time. At the end if the day it is about creating a safe productive environment

It is all to do with managing conflict - and people spend years at business school learning how to do this. ....getting a problem resolved is difficult but people need to feel they have won without necessarily winning. It is like in teaching - there is a fine balance between acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour - where to draw the line and where to let things go.





Xx

 

[pocossin]

Let's see if I understand this. You are against individualism and totalitarianism? Individualism isn't the same as anarchism, and group harmony isn't the same as totalitarianism.

Don't play stupid. Nothing I did was secret. "If you can't take the heat," Truman said, "stay out of the kitchen," and I caught plenty of heat, some from you, as I remember, not that I give a damn. My health was so poor at the time that I did not expect to be alive now, so why not do a little good before the casket lid closes? Your 'individualism' has often gotten quite nasty, even though, I confess, you sometimes spoke the truth. If Liss and other members of her group experienced the person as hostile and aggressive, then the person was hostile and aggressive in effect. Time to do some pruning. "If thy hand offend thee," Jesus said, " cut it off."

 

[goddessliss]

Thanks for your support - sadly she posted on another local group saying who knows what as I'm not privy to that group so we lost one of our members because of it - I knew it was inevitable but who needs that sort of thing especially in a small town. Let's hope it doesn't have a domino effect.

 

[pocossin]

Thanks for your support - sadly she posted on another local group saying who knows what as I'm not privy to that group so we lost one of our members because of it - I knew it was inevitable but who needs that sort of thing especially in a small town. Let's hope it doesn't have a domino effect.

I regret the loss, but people often do not know what is good for them. I know that some resigned from Clarity for some of the impossibles I banned. If people always knew what was good for them, there would be no need for the I Ching or Clarity. It would be nice if you could, but you can't save everyone.

 

[goddessliss]

Well fortunately as the morning's progressed no more loss of members but so much positive support from others - some I barely know and others I don't know at all.
No you can't Pocossin that's right - I asked her to join because I felt a bit sorry for her and her present circumstances but perhaps I should have recognised that there is a reason for that. Oh well lesson learned.

 

[rosada]

Uh, just to be sure there is no misunderstanding here. Moderators do not have the power to ban anyone. That is strictly Hilary's prerogative.

Rosada

 

[pocossin]

Uh, just to be sure there is no misunderstanding here. Moderators do not have the power to ban anyone. That is strictly Hilary's prerogative.

Rosada

A moderator can and should be prepared to do whatever needs to be done. Hilary can't be online 24/7, and if a mistake is made, then Hilary can undo it. Put out the fire before it spreads. Possibly, being kindhearted, you have never learned how to ban anyone

 

[pocossin]

I asked her to join because I felt a bit sorry for her and her present circumstances but perhaps I should have recognised that there is a reason for that.

A person can be a troublemaker in one group and bloom in another. I follow some of the difficult persons who have appeared at Clarity and am impressed by how they can flourish in a proper medium.

 

[goddessliss]

A person can be a troublemaker in one group and bloom in another. I follow some of the difficult persons who have appeared at Clarity and am impressed by how they can flourish in a proper medium.

Yes that's what I'd thought may happen here as not many liked her in the other groups and I thought maybe if she's directing her energy positively things would be different.

 

[Liselle]

For what it's worth, I had a reading just a few hours ago which contained 27.4 and 27.6 (along with 27.2), and I think those lines were advising me to be aggressive in getting what I need (27.4) rather than waiting to see if something better would come along later, and that the success of what I was trying to do depended on that (27.6). Unfortunately I didn't really understand until I let one such opportunity go by - then I regretted being passive, saw what the reading meant, and am now vowing to do better next time.

In your case, since your question was "how to get rid of her," it seems likely (to me) that you did the right thing by removing her. If Yi had wanted to suggest that getting rid of her was the wrong goal, that you try to work things out with her or something, my guess is that "be aggressive" and "this depends on you" isn't what Yi would say as an answer to that question. Giving someone a chance or two or three might be the right thing to do in many cases, but I don't think that's what this reading was telling you this time. (Although I do feel sorry for her - when someone is that nasty to other people, I think it sometimes comes from being really miserable themselves, which I don't wish on anyone.)

 

[sooo]

Don't play stupid. Nothing I did was secret. "If you can't take the heat," Truman said, "stay out of the kitchen," and I caught plenty of heat, some from you, as I remember, not that I give a damn. My health was so poor at the time that I did not expect to be alive now, so why not do a little good before the casket lid closes? Your 'individualism' has often gotten quite nasty, even though, I confess, you sometimes spoke the truth. If Liss and other members of her group experienced the person as hostile and aggressive, then the person was hostile and aggressive in effect. Time to do some pruning. "If thy hand offend thee," Jesus said, " cut it off."

Oh, I'm hostile; okay. Heat? Bring it. All I hear is a lot of bluster. So, nasty individualism is okay so long as you're doing the cooking in the kitchen. You have no idea of what I do that's good in real life, nor does it matter to me. God, listen to you lecture me, and preaching scripture. Shall I call you pasture Tom now? Am I to seek repentance before thee, oh righteous one? I know, I know, you don't cast your pearls before swine.

 

[pocossin]

Am I to seek repentance before thee, oh righteous one?

Not at all. I think I have improved you. You are so much nicer now. And Liss may have improved the troubled person from her group. Man may be born to trouble as the sparks fly upward, but that's no reason to fold hands and let them set the world on fire.

 

[rosada]

Although the I ching often answers questions we didn't ask or tells us things that weren't particularly pertinent to the question we did ask, I think it's always good to at least try to interpret the answer as a direct intentional response to our exact question. This requires being clear about what the question was. In this case the question was not "Should I ban her?" or "How can I treat her so she will harmonize with the group?" The question was "How can I get rid of her?"

27. Mouth and words > 51. Shock.

This reads to me to be saying that she would not leave on her own, that the way to get rid of her was to not mince words but to flat out tell her even if it was shocking - for both of you. ( 51. Image: The Superior man put his life in order.)

The change lines suggest to me that you would need to recognize that while you might have thought you had no ego role, you actually did have one - to watch people like a bright eye'd tiger and only select the best and the brightest. This is not a negative thing. This is what we are supposed to do. Look at 17.Following. We are to chose whom we will follow and we ought not follow little children. We are to follow are highest ideals. You had naively assumed everyone in your group had already grocked that truth but along came this woman who was not coming from a place of wanting to create the experience you and the group were wanting to experience. Furthermore, 27.6 suggests once you recognized the disharmony she was creating it was your job to cut her loose. Your experiment in bringing people together to be creative is the start of a long journey. People who aren't up to the trip shouldn't be part of the group.

51. First shock oh, oh, then laughter ha, ha.
I bet by now you are feeling that it wasn't as hard or awful as you thought it would be. And maybe she'll do some soul searching too, and come to realize her responsibility in what happened.

Anyway, bottom line, I think the IChing was saying that the way to get rid of her was to first recognize that like a casting director, you had a the right to bring together the best people to act out this improvisation you had envisioned, that that awareness would give you the inner clarity to do what needed to be done to set your life and the group's life in order.

 

[goddessliss]

Thanks Lisa for your input.

Thank you Rosada 100% right on all points you made - it certainly shook me up as a person and helped me do some soul searching myself and I know it certainly shook her up but that doesn't concern me.

The craft group met this morning, in a different location as well, and it was soooooooo much better, a joyous, positive vibe. It's given me the inspiration to continue and not only that, a couple of hours later, I found a new rental for myself in which the member I've really connected with just happens to live in the same street. Synchronicity at it's best!

 

[Liselle]

Oh my goodness So you don't have to move far? I'm happy to hear that!

 

[goddessliss]

Oh my goodness So you don't have to move far? I'm happy to hear that!

Thanks Lisa - no not far. Exactly 4.6kms

 

[sooo]

Not at all. I think I have improved you. You are so much nicer now. And Liss may have improved the troubled person from her group. Man may be born to trouble as the sparks fly upward, but that's no reason to fold hands and let them set the world on fire.

Tom, you're a riot.

Anytime Hilary would wish me to be gone from her group, she wouldn't have to ask nor tell me twice. Thus far she has never suggested it. My vacations and returns were strictly voluntary. If a majority would request it, I'd respectfully oblige to withdraw from the group. But a couple of curmudgeons have no such power or influence over me; they simply have a right to their opinions.

As far as having a brush with the reaper, I think many here, including myself, have been there. It affords no further liberties or privileges, here or elsewhere. Eventually, we'll all succumb, as those who have gone before us. My experience and observation has been, it either makes one softer or harder, but nearly always less concerned with ones own popularity once awakened to ones own mortality. Kind of a 54 thing.

I've had to fire many employees and lost as many nights of sleep over it. It's the worst part of any job I've ever had. I've had to prune some friends and even family ties to maintain my individuality, and learned to ignore many more. I've been fired and cut off too, and have survived intact. Kind of a 32 thing.

Life goes on until it doesn't, and even then it might.

Valuable experiences, all.

 

[pocossin]

a joyous, positive vibe

That's holding onto the sacrificial spoon and chalice. It makes life worth living, doesn't it?