Haxagram 12 changing line 1 and 5

[Rosemary7]

Hi, I got this haxagram a few weeks ago in relation to a family dilemma, it really resonates my current situation. It has been almost 1 year of very limited communication between my husband and me, the 2 changing lines makes me believe things will start to shift, especially the critical line 5 who has the ability to get out of this stagnation, but I don't know whether this is a positive change or heading to divorce. I understand that if only 2 lines are changing we probably don't need to look at the changing haxagram. Anyone has had similar haxagram and what are the outcomes ?

 

[rosada]

I have never heard of this idea that if only two lines are changing you probably don’t need to look at the changing hexagram.

 

[Liselle]

Neither have I, which is different from knowing exactly what to do with the relating hexagram.

What was your question?

'Pulling up thatch grass, roots entangled,
With more of its kind.
Constancy, good fortune. Creating success.'

'Resting in obstruction.
Great person, good fortune.
It is lost, it is lost!
Tie it to the bushy mulberry tree.'

Blocked / Obstruction's Biting Through. 12 means heaven and earth not communicating, which fits with your description. Then how that mixes with Biting Through, chewing and gnawing down to the heart of things...

I think what the lines might say is pull up tangled stuff (line 1), but not too much. Pull some up, then rest with it for a while (line 5), let whatever progress you make grow on its own. Don't try to weed the whole garden at once, so to speak, but do keep at it.

 

[Rosemary7]

My understanding is If only 1 or 2 lines are changing, only need to look at the original haxagram plus the changing lines, only when 3 lines changed the 2 haxagrams need to be combined.... if 4 lines changed then the changing haxagram becomes the main one etc....but to hear some practical cases of the similar situation and the outcome could be quite interesting

 

[Rosemary7]

Thanks for the reply. At the moment nothing changes, still same old stuff like a year ago. But this haxagram indicates change on the fifth line, I am thinking could be 2 months or 2 years( very worrying). I asked for the outcome of my family future.

Do you read both haxagrams and 2 changing lines? I read that if only 1 or 2 lines are changing then we are still very much in the original haxagram energy, only 3 or more lines changed we need to look at the changing haxagram.

line 1 changing is my action which is not the main driving force here. The line 5 indicates my husband's action, but it would only be positive if he is a "wise" person and keep thinking of "what if I fail, what if I fail". I have no idea whether he is the wise man. he has been beyond unreasonable for a whole year.

 

[Liselle]

My understanding is If only 1 or 2 lines are changing, only need to look at the original haxagram plus the changing lines, only when 3 lines changed the 2 haxagrams need to be combined.... if 4 lines changed then the changing haxagram becomes the main one etc....but to hear some practical cases of the similar situation and the outcome could be quite interesting

This isn't the way I've learned it or have ever done it, so I can't speak to whether or how well it works.

You asked for an outcome, and I had looked at it as if you'd asked for advice. And you think line 1 is you and line 5 is your husband.

I could see line 1 as you. You see a need to untangle the tangled mess in order for your family to have a future. I'm not having any ideas about line 5 as your husband, though.

 

[rosada]

Do you remember where you got these ideas about only reading the second hexagram when you get three or more changing lines? Just curious.
Also if the fifth line reads to you as if it is referring to your husband then you may get some insight from considering that possibility, however this is not the only interpretation of the fifth line position. I usually interpret the fifth line as describing the goal or higher perspective. It might mean an authority figure. For this reading the great person could be you and is thus advising you that if you follow the advice of the line you are acting as a great person. The advice seems to be that you are conflicted about how to move forward with your life. Perhaps you are feeling 12. Stagnant in your marriage and even wondering if your husband feels that way too and wondering if you should separate (12.1). However 12.5 seems to caution that you don’t have to cut ties completely to resolve misunderstandings.
Or perhaps the great man in 12.5 is a marriage counselor.

 

[Liselle]

Following along from Rosada, when there are a lot of moving lines it might be helpful to think about the two hexagrams being closer to perfect balance or opposition. At the extreme if all 6 lines change, they'll literally be complement/opposite.

Another thing to think about is what Hilary says, that more moving lines probably reflects more complication in the situation. More points of change and so on.

But I'd think the primary hexagram is still primary for a reason. Yi could easily just give people the second hexagram if it wanted to, but it didn't.

 

[Trojina]

Hi, I got this haxagram a few weeks ago in relation to a family dilemma, it really resonates my current situation. It has been almost 1 year of very limited communication between my husband and me, the 2 changing lines makes me believe things will start to shift, especially the critical line 5 who has the ability to get out of this stagnation, but I don't know whether this is a positive change or heading to divorce. I understand that if only 2 lines are changing we probably don't need to look at the changing haxagram. Anyone has had similar haxagram and what are the outcomes ?

You don't have a reading at all without the relating hexagram - it is an integral part of the reading. Whoever told you with only 2 lines changing you don't need to consider the relating hexagram they are wrong. That would be like saying you can have a tree without a sky.

So your relating hexagram here, importantly, is 21, Biting Through. I do take 12.1.5>21 Biting Through Separating or Separating's Biting Through - it's a nice answer for sure for people trying to cut through the dead stuff and find the truth of things again.

You haven't said what the question is exactly only that it is in relation to a family dilemma. You say you don't know if this means positive change or heading for divorce. Nor do I but either way it's a good reading for really getting to the core of (21) what's good in something that may have been in quite a disengaged state(12). If your urge is to get back together I think it's a great cast, I don't really see it as heading to divorce.


I'm cautious in saying that because sometimes people might 'bight through' the stagnation of a marriage and be happy to leave BUT my sense of this, given you want to stay together I think, is that using very clear focus things can be uncovered, things can come to light (12.1) and 12.5 asks you not to fret but to be vigorous in holding to basic truths, I think Hilary says something about holding to the strong new growth. The mulberry tree referred to in the line grows back with vigor when cut back. It looks like quite determined (21) working through of issues without any compromise in honesty...and then things begin to unfold and maybe all the things that made you love one another in the first place can grow up again?

As advice be clear and sharp and discerning in moving out of stasis and into life again. It appears to be you already are being, you are already sort of almost seeing your issues in almost legal precision which is what 21 requires, and truth is everything in 21. It looks like truth gets things moving again here rather than truth getting in the way of harmony, truth in this instance seems to move you forward out of this dead phase.

 

[Rosemary7]

My family dilemma is very complicated, it would be a long essay just to paint a basic picture. He did the unthinkable to me and I had to ask for divorce. After months asking and he finally filed. The reality is we can't stay together because of what happened, but getting divorced is very daunting and we have a young child. It isn't fair on her. I don't think he wants to stay married or he wouldn't have done what he did, all our hearts are broken but I cry alot feeling guilty about my child.

I wish there could be a miracle, at the moment, my husband has upper hand in everything, he single handedly instigated this situation which resonates perfectly in this haxagram, if I did I ching last year, it would have adopted a totally different approach and hold back all my actions. Every step I took was a mistake looking back. The lower part indicates me who is suffering, the upper haxagram is him, hold all the power, but if he changes his action or "a great man" made him change, there could be hope. He definitely wouldn't listen to me as he has been winning all the way.

I am somewhat worried about this 21, indicating more fighting, biting through, legal, court battle. Or it could be we finally come to an agreement after more fights, but it could mean we part ways and put an end to it. I am unsure which way that is heading. The situation can evolve into that haxagram. But I don't think we are out of this 12 yet, things can change again in 2 months. I also read I can cast another haxsgram in 3 months. That might be more accurate on the future. I guess tje whole thing about iching is constantly changing. Right now this 12 couldn't be more accurate. That's why I am keen to hear other's experience on this haxagram. My experience with 12 is so negative, I have been in this energy for a whole year, negative is an understatement, it is nothing less than devastating. I am definitely not looking forward to 21. I don't understand it quite well, but it smells trouble.

 

[Trojina]

You've given far more detail in your last post than in your first post and it would have helped if you'd told us all that to start with....but anyway

Your way of interpreting is very far from mine. You are worrying about the 21 but 21, the relating hexagram is not the future, not a prediction of how things will be it is just where you are now trying to get justice, to get clarity.

So he cheated on you and ruined the marriage? But you don't want a divorce because of the child so you want to stay married but don't want him back? Is that right?

I mean you do have some choice in how things go don't you, even a little bit? It's just you are asking as if you don't have any choice in how this goes and it's all down to him but what do you want to happen next? I can't figure that out from what you've written.

Answers aren't only flat out predictions, they involve you. So

The lower part indicates me who is suffering, the upper haxagram is him, hold all the power, but if he changes his action or "a great man" made him change, there could be hope. He definitely wouldn't listen to me as he has been winning all the way.

I'm lost. When you say 'the lower part' do you mean the lower trigram of 12? But then you say 'the upper hexagram' not trigram so I'm not sure what you mean here? It doesn't make sense to me why you would say 'the upper hexagram is him'. I mean he may hold all the power but it's not in the answer explicitly other than 12 can be quite an oppressive time.

Can you say where you are getting this way of interpreting from?

I am somewhat worried about this 21, indicating more fighting, biting through, legal, court battle. Or it could be we finally come to an agreement after more fights, but it could mean we part ways and put an end to it. I am unsure which way that is heading. The situation can evolve into that haxagram.

Well 21 is not the fixed future nor 'the result' it's the situation you are in....the situation is not evolving into that hexagram it is evolving from 21, where you are into the lines of 12. I mean both occur together.

I'll leave my interpretation as it stands in post 9. You can adapt that in a way that makes sense to you if you want. It is important to know what you want to happen because we have to interpret from that angle. You have to pinpoint in your answer where this overcoming of stagnation applies. It's a good answer, no doubt about it. Looking at 21 and worrying about it is not the way to go here at all IMO.

I guess my confusion is that he's wronged you so you don't want him back but you also don't want a divorce at all so I don't understand what for you would be the ideal outcome. Like in a perfect world what would you want to happen next? Not being able to place where you are in this situation - and it is hard for people trying to help to sometimes just understand the situation, it takes time and energy and one can still be puzzled....and to understand a reading one does need to understand the situation and I don't. I thought from the first post you didn't want divorce because you wanted to reconcile.

I think I will give up and let others have a go.


Actually whatever you want it's a good cast for getting yourself out of a crap place and into a better place so that's the main thing. You certainly aren't being advised to fret more that's for sure. Perhaps you could focus on what, given all the circumstances, you would most like to happen and go from there. This is a good cast for things getting better for you. You picture what you want as best case scenario in this unhappy situation and go towards that because you have a good chance of getting there.

 

[Rosemary7]

The upper 3 lines of 12 is his energy, winning, bad leadership leading us into the wrong direction. The lower 3 lines of the 12 is me being oppressed, but the best course of action should be just go hiding and bide my time, waiting for the crazy tide to subside, any actions during this period are deemed to be futile even back fire. This proven to be true.

I wish it was just cheating, something much more sinister, he called the police and made false allegations, took my child away made me homeless even given me a criminal record of damaging his coat !! Yeah you read it right, i am appealing the decision but it did happen. all these seemingly ridiculous things can happen during haxagram 12, that's why it's better to hide in times like is, going out would likely to be hit by a bus, and do not expect any justice as the world is crazy, at least in my part of world. We spent all our money (our baby's education fund) already fighting in court for custody. I don't think neither of us planned for this, it literally happened overnight, my world collapsed in a blink of eye. He seems devil possessed, took me months to even come to terms of what happened, that is what haxagram 12 do to people, coming from 11 to 12 takes 2 seconds, to get out of 12 is a slow process.

He has been winning all the way miraculously, but this 12 won't last forever, the million pound question is when is going to change..... the fifth line is the right line to change, I wished it was line 5 and 6, but unfortunately it is line 1 and 5.... which gives a 21. Do you really think this is positive haxagram? biting through, court, legal and punishment does not sound too positive even the outcome is "solved", but what kind of fight do we need more and what are the price to pay to bite through.... I have no energy left to fight, I just want him to wake up and put down the weapon...no one is benefiting from this including him, there is no winner in any family drama but long lasting consequences for years and for all of us.

I have been studying I ching from various online source for the past month....and read a few books including Japanese book written by a guy who predicted all outcomes during the war time. I think it takes time to understand the it, especially I am in the middle of it. I know it would change, but in what way and when

 

[Trojina]

The upper 3 lines of 12 is his energy, winning, bad leadership leading us into the wrong direction. The lower 3 lines of the 12 is me being oppressed, but the best course of action should be just go hiding and bide my time, waiting for the crazy tide to subside, any actions during this period are deemed to be futile even back fire. This proven to be true.

No because the trigrams of heaven and earth here pull away from one another, earth goes downwards, heavens goes upwards. Heaven is not crushing down on earth and his energy isn't winning - at least not in this answer. I suppose you could see it how you do - 12 is a time when good people have to bide their time due the prevalence of ignorance around them. However it really isn't necessarily the case that he is the upper trigram and you the lower, I don't see that as a helpful idea. 12 can be the overall situation and you didn't give an exact question so ...

He has been winning all the way miraculously, but this 12 won't last forever, the million pound question is when is going to change..... the fifth line is the right line to change, I wished it was line 5 and 6, but unfortunately it is line 1 and 5.... which gives a 21. Do you really think this is positive haxagram? biting through, court, legal and punishment does not sound too positive even the outcome is "solved", but what kind of fight do we need more and what are the price to pay to bite through.... I have no energy left to fight, I just want him to wake up and put down the weapon...no one is benefiting from this including him, there is no winner in any family drama but long lasting consequences for years and for all of us.

There is no such thing as a positive hexagram or a negative hexagram, it's all about context. 21 is not always about actual legal battles you know although if you have been involved in legal battles maybe.

But as I keep on saying 21 does not represent the future here anyway. Your online sources have misled you quite a bit especially with the idea that with 2 change lines you don't bother with the relating hexagram.

The I Ching is more than prediction, prediction is just an occasional by product. Your situation seems very complex.

 

[Rosemary7]

What I meant online is a professor in university teaching philosophy, also published a gew books on it. not random youtube channel, the upper changing line is the answer to my question and the haxagran is the overall energy.... I do think the changing haxagram can be relevant depending on the situation.....especially when the changing lines doesnt quite clearly answer the questions. judging by my situation, I think it could well be. I just need to wait it out and see. I will come back and update this post if its good outcome so others can make a reference to this when they encounter 12 and the same changing lines.

 

[rosada]

Hexagram 12 is indeed a daunting hexagram. Consider reading it as advice for dealing with the Stagnation rather than as an irrefutable curse that you must stay stuck in it!

Starting with line one read all the lines as advice for how to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start all over again.
12.1 The first step in rebounding from this awful position where you feel there is a complete lack of communication between you and the father, is to recognize that this is indeed the state of things. What ever loving feelings of 11. Peaceful Connection you two experienced before have flat lined and turned into 12. Stagnation.
The good news is that by recognizing you are no longer emotionally attached to the other, by no longer trying to revive the old relationship, you are able to feel your own true inner nature. Shed those old ties!
12.5 "Tie it to a berry bush" is like our expression "Hedge your bets."