Help for regal pine tree

[flashlight]

The master tree on my land is an old and very tall pine tree, who can be seen from far away. He (I have always thought of him as a he) is regal, though not as in great esthetic shape as he once had been.
We've had horrendous wind storms of late, and the apex came last night. This morning I went out to survey the damage(s) and I saw my tree angled, with the soil at the base suddenly raised on the side toward which he bends. At each breath of wind, he would bend further.
If he falls, he will cause major damage: electricity cables, garage, wood shed etc. There is a better than even chance that he would fall if such a wind storm repeated (and we've been getting them more frequently, more forcefully and longer lasting in recent years. Those who don't believe in climate change probably don't live in the country..)
Cutting him down, killing him, is violent, radical and the property would look weird. He is not terminally ill, he is fragilized (two years of rain, no wonder his root system has a hard time hanging on!)
Reducing his height by 6-7 meters would mean that even if he fell, he'd not cause major damage, but I don't know if that wouldn't leave him wide open to tree diseases or whether his root system is currently strong enough to withstand even a reduced size with any certainty. I am exploring the option, if possible, of having him equipped with cables anchored with two other trees to help him recover if those trees are strong enough to help him. I have to make a decision soon, both the insurance (unlikely to take on the expense of a "let's try to save him approach"...) and the tree team are waiting for an answer).

So I had a chat with Yi.

What should I do for my pine tree? 12.1 to 25
Legge "The good fortune through firm goodness, suggested by the pulling up of the grass, arises from the will of the parties intended being bent on serving the ruler."
Am I reading this too literally - that I should pull up his roots??

What would be the effect of cutting down his height? 32.3 to 40
The noble one stands firm in thunder and rain (he's been trying to!) L.3 cutting down his height would be a shameful gift, he'd not be lasting in character?

What can make my tree survive and thrive? 57.5 to 18
I like 57.5, as Hilary expresses it "Constancy, good fortune, regrets vanish.
Nothing that does not bear fruit.
With no beginning, there is completion.
Before threshing, three days.
After threshing, three days.
Good fortune."
But 18 is not a happy hex for my tree....or is it suggesting that the context is one of corruption (why he is having problems, that there is something ill for him - in the soil or elsewhere?)?

I need to find a solution quickly where things are safe (if the electical cables are ripped down in a later storm, i am in big trouble and the insurance wouldn't cover me since we know the risk exists today) and where my tree could possibly with care and time return to health.
I don't know what to do, not sure what Yi is suggesting and don't want to ask too many questions on the same subject...

Thanks for your help to my regal tree...

 

[Liselle]

Hi Flashlight,

12.1 > 25 - This reading might be saying that the root systems of all these trees are bound up with each other, and if you were to try to uproot the main tree, you'd be harming the root system of the others as well.

I think the Legge quote is supporting the idea of tying the main tree to the other trees, until the main tree can stabilize. "...the will of the parties intended being bent on serving the ruler" - the "parties" would be the other trees, the "ruler" is a clever description of your "regal" tree , and so the other trees would be serving their ruler.

32.3 > 40 - I think your interpretation is correct; cutting down his height would be a shameful gift, and something you'd be doing too hastily. "Not lasting in your character" may even refer back to othe 12.1 reading, which I think was your answer. Yi might be saying to spend some more time with that reading. 40 could mean that if you do that (think about the 12.1 reading some more), you will find liberation and relief there (in other words, a solution).

57.5 > 18 - Yi repeats a phrase from 12.1: "Constancy, good fortune," and adds "regrets vanish. Nothing that does not bear fruit." I think that's saying you have your solution already. And then I think the rest of the line text is just encouraging you to think about the original reading some more before you go any farther. 57 can mean penetrating - penetrate the meaning of the first reading.

Maybe someone else can explain 18 as the relating hexagram. You're right that it can mean corruption, and that often it's not a good sign. In this particular case, though, I think the readings are strongly in the other direction - letting the other trees help will work. So even though I can't explain what 18 means, I wouldn't worry about it.

Good luck. It makes me really happy that you're trying so hard to save this old tree , and I think the readings are saying you'll succeed.

 

[Liselle]

12.1 might also be saying that only a small part of the main tree's root system has been damaged, but it has a lot of other roots, ones which you can't see, which are in better shape. (It might still be that all the trees' roots are intertwined below ground. It could be saying both those things.)

 

[flashlight]

THanks Lisa for caring about my regal tree! It's such a hard decision - and a dangerous situation.
Last night, I called my super duper tree expert, who is not going to be in the area for 6 weeks... so long, such risk.. and I will send him some images today. He is the one who'd suggested strapping the tree to others, if the others can withstand the extra pressure when the high wind blows. He wants to save it if possible, but is limited in what he can diagnose at a distance, even if he does distance healing (as strange as that can sound to some).
I do think the Yi is for the strapping idea. I seriously question whether we could avoid reducing his height, he is huge and the wind just makes him dance terribly.
I asked this morning how the tree would feel about being reduced in height AND strapped to his buddies.
And got 28 4.6 (how apt a description) leading to 57 -- which again points to a problem with the soil in my mind.
I'm not impartial enough -- do you get the sense that this is the optimal solution? Provided the insurance company goes for it....

 

[Liselle]

Well...57 can mean rooting - it could be a reference to roots, or reminding you that the tree is much more rooted than it appears. A tree that old probably has a vast network of roots below ground, which you can't see. You only see the small portion of the root system that has been damaged and has pulled loose. Sort of like an iceberg, where most of it is below the water line. (That is my guess, from the readings.)

I think 28.4 might be saying that the situation is as bad now as it's going to get - that it won't get any worse.

28.6 might be a direct answer to your question - how the tree would feel. It might be saying that the tree would know that lopping off its head is going too far, and there will be "pitfall" from doing that (it will make the situation worse rather than better), but that there will be "no blame." In other words, the tree will understand and won't blame you.

But understanding and not blaming you doesn't mean that what you're proposing is necessary - just that it wouldn't be blameworthy. My guess is still that a conservative approach will work. You don't have to do anything drastic; it's not going to get any worse than it is now.

BUT - that's just me trying to interpret I Ching readings, which, heaven knows, is VERY FAR from an exact science.

Is there any other tree expert who's available any sooner? Could you anchor the tree yourself (I ask dubiously)?

 

[Liselle]

I should also mention that I don't know one single thing about trees; I'm just looking at readings uch:. If you know what specific kind of tree yours is, maybe you could look up, or ask someone who knows, what kind of root system that kind of tree develops. It may be the case that the roots are vast and deep, but maybe there are varieties of trees with much more shallow roots.

 

[flashlight]

Hi Lisa,
Sorry about being slow at responding, it's a busy time with work and trying to deal with the various consequences of this storm.
An epicea's root network, unfortunately, is not deep, but superficial and it is one that variety's weaknesses. Around me with this wind storm, the only trees that fell (totally uprooted) were these pine trees. Anchoring the tree myself is not even in the cards LOL!
No firm decision still has been made - save that I will not lob off a few meters of the height of the tree. I did my research and apparently that would fragilize his root system even more and make him wide open to illness coming in (invisibly) and weakening him further.
I would like to rope anchor him for the time being and then in spring have my tree doctor do a proper guying. But there are a bunch of uncertainties to that process:
- the insurance expert, who is due to come, might refuse outright (which would leave me uninsured if the tree fell and caused severe damage subsequently)
- the support trees are a bit far from the regal pine and not at the best angle (45°) to do so; the most suitable tree location wise is not well, attacked by mushrooms at the base eating inside the trunk.
- my gardner (whom I did not think was old/uninformed school on this type of stuff) doesn't believe it would work and is not keen on having to rope anchor it until *another person* comes to do the guying (which he is not trained to do anyway -- a bit of an ego thingie here). He still thinks either cutting it down totally or reducing his height severely is the right answer. The former may be, the latter is a recipe for greater weakness.
- no there is no other tree doctor in the area; all the "pruners" I had interviewed for another tree some years ago all wanted to just cut him down to 3 meters tall. He'd be dead by now if i'd done that (and ugly as sin). There are a lot of charlatans out there...

So since all this is taking time, and no rapid action is being implemented (which, if we have another storm, scares me silly), I asked:
how will tree fare in the next three months? And the Yi replied 10.5 to 38 - treading firmly and correctly, but there will be peril. I really don't like this answer at all, it's like it is announcing the worst scenario (tree falls, lots of damage, insurance battle) or is my anxiety over this making me read it all wrong??

 

[flashlight]

Hi Lisa,
Sorry about being slow at responding, it's a busy time with work and trying to deal with the various consequences of this storm.
An epicea's root network, unfortunately, is not deep, but superficial and it is one that variety's weaknesses. Around me with this wind storm, the only trees that fell (totally uprooted) were these pine trees. Anchoring the tree myself is not even in the cards LOL!
No firm decision still has been made - save that I will not lob off a few meters of the height of the tree. I did my research and apparently that would fragilize his root system even more and make him wide open to illness coming in (invisibly) and weakening him further.
I would like to rope anchor him for the time being and then in spring have my tree doctor do a proper guying. But there are a bunch of uncertainties to that process:
- the insurance expert, who is due to come, might refuse outright (which would leave me uninsured if the tree fell and caused severe damage subsequently)
- the support trees are a bit far from the regal pine and not at the best angle (45°) to do so; the most suitable tree location wise is not well, attacked by mushrooms at the base eating inside the trunk.
- my gardner (whom I did not think was old/uninformed school on this type of stuff) doesn't believe it would work and is not keen on having to rope anchor it until *another person* comes to do the guying (which he is not trained to do anyway -- a bit of an ego thingie here). He still thinks either cutting it down totally or reducing his height severely is the right answer. The former may be, the latter is a recipe for greater weakness.
- no there is no other tree doctor in the area; all the "pruners" I had interviewed for another tree some years ago all wanted to just cut him down to 3 meters tall. He'd be dead by now if i'd done that (and ugly as sin). There are a lot of charlatans out there...

So since all this is taking time, and no rapid action is being implemented (which, if we have another storm, scares me silly), I asked:
how will tree fare in the next three months? And the Yi replied 10.5 to 38 - treading firmly and correctly, but there will be peril. I really don't like this answer at all, it's like it is announcing the worst scenario (tree falls, lots of damage, insurance battle) or is my anxiety over this making me read it all wrong??

 

[Liselle]

My guess about 10.5 - and it is only a guess - is that how the tree will fare in the next three months depends on what you do.

Wilhelm-Baynes says:

"Resolute conduct.
Perseverance with awareness of danger.

This refers to the ruler of the hexagram as a whole. One sees that one has to
be resolute in conduct. But at the same time one must remain conscious of
the danger connected with such resoluteness, especially if it is to be
persevered in. Only awareness of the danger makes success possible."​

Something I'm confused about:

You said that

Anchoring the tree myself is not even in the cards

but then you said

I would like to rope anchor him for the time being and then in spring have my tree doctor do a proper guying. But there are a bunch of uncertainties to that process

and

my gardner (whom I did not think was old/uninformed school on this type of stuff) doesn't believe it would work and is not keen on having to rope anchor it until *another person* comes to do the guying

To me, it sounds like you're saying on the one hand that you can't anchor the tree yourself, but on the other hand, rope anchoring is a possibility (more or less by yourself, with only the help of your reluctant gardener).

Maybe the crucial difference is between "rope anchoring" and "proper guying"? I don't know what either entails.

Am also wondering if 10.5 is referring to your gardener. You mentioned he has "a bit of an ego thingie" about rope anchoring until "*another person*" (not him) comes to do the real work (if I'm understanding that correctly?). Hilary's commentary on line 5 says:

"Your treading embodies who you are; what you choose declares your identity. When you decide to be fully present in everything you do, with nothing grudging or half-hearted, you make this your life. Constancy on this path is dangerous: when you are highly individualistic, you may not fit in so well; people who are less sensitive to their surroundings, and to whatever isn’t a part of their own identity, are not so easy to relate to."

The underlined parts remind me of what you're saying about your gardener. Maybe the point is that you have to be decisive, and make your gardener help you do the rope anchoring anyway, despite him not wanting to? And that you'll have to be firm with him because you know the danger you're in otherwise? Maybe that's what 10.5 means?

Wilhelm-Baynes's commentary makes it sound (I think) as if the danger lies in the perseverence - that it's the resoluteness and the perseverence that cause the danger. But the text itself merely says to be resolute and to persevere "with awareness of danger," as if the danger simply exists alongside the resoluteness rather than being caused by it. So resoluteness might mean being firm with your gardener about doing the rope anchoring, because there is danger if you don't - and maybe it doesn't mean that there is danger in bossing your gardener around? (Maybe this is a good example of paying attention to the text itself and not being swayed by commentary?)

 

[flashlight]

Oh nuts! I had written a quick response, still confused about 10.5 too, but it din't post. Love my country Internet propelled with a 3-legged hamster who takes regular breaks...

Anywhoo, the gardner roped the tree up to three other trees, so immediate security is assured. And we have an action plan (super tree doctor comes to see what gives in march, and depending on his assessment, he does the guying in spring, or the tree gets cut down). Now the big question is whether the insurance and its "expert" will agree and cover the cost (I cannot self fund all this) or whether they will only pay for cutting down the tree (or nothing at all -- you know insurance companies, you pay for coverage and then they find ways to wiggle out of coverage...). The gardner and his boss still believe that cutting off 7 meters of the trees height is the right route (apparently they did that to one pine tree some years ago and it is OK), but all my research does indicate that doing that can indeed weaken further the rooting system (and leave the tree wide open to diseases). I am against that idea, full stop.
Lisa, thanks to you and Yi for exchanging with me on this, it was a pretty tense and scary week. I feel more tranquil now that the tree is roped up; had there been another wind storm on the heels of the last one, it had a better than even chance of falling and doing lots of damage...

 

[flashlight]

Oh nuts! I had written a quick response, still confused about 10.5 too, but it din't post. Love my country Internet propelled with a 3-legged hamster who takes regular breaks...

Anywhoo, the gardner roped the tree up to three other trees, so immediate security is assured. And we have an action plan (super tree doctor comes to see what gives in march, and depending on his assessment, he does the guying in spring, or the tree gets cut down). Now the big question is whether the insurance and its "expert" will agree and cover the cost (I cannot self fund all this) or whether they will only pay for cutting down the tree (or nothing at all -- you know insurance companies, you pay for coverage and then they find ways to wiggle out of coverage...). The gardner and his boss still believe that cutting off 7 meters of the trees height is the right route (apparently they did that to one pine tree some years ago and it is OK), but all my research does indicate that doing that can indeed weaken further the rooting system (and leave the tree wide open to diseases). I am against that idea, full stop.
Lisa, thanks to you and Yi for exchanging with me on this, it was a pretty tense and scary week. I feel more tranquil now that the tree is roped up; had there been another wind storm on the heels of the last one, it had a better than even chance of falling and doing lots of damage...

 

[flashlight]

It's been a while, but it has taken a while -- insurance companies are not known to be swift! And though usually they strive to find every which way to not take on a claim, I was delightfully surprised this one (I'd changed insurers 6 weeks before the wind storm!!!) is.
So among the other repairs (roof, outside lighting), and because I have special coverage for my trees (smart I did that -- prescient?) they are paying for 75% of the guying, which is bloody expensive. It will be done within the next two weeks. Regal tree, hopefully, will build up his roots again and return to full health. He's looking a bit shabby, but no wonder after years of excess rainfall and getting whacked in February!

 

[Liselle]

Flashlight, thank you so much for coming back and letting us know what happened! That is really helpful for the forum and trying to understand what the readings mean, and unfortunately a lot of people don't ever do it.

I am absolutely delighted that this is ending so well, both for you and your regal tree. Virtual hugs to the insurance company (they deserve hugs so rarely), and to you for being smart and prescient, and especially to the I Ching for being so helpful. :hugs:

 

[flashlight]

Oh you're welcome -- it's normal: people invest time to try to help others, the least is to say thank you and tell the end of the story!
With the insurance, I was lucky as heck. I'd been with one company 20 years without an incident, and when there was one, that was covered, they had an "expert" call to assess the situation. The babe did not even understand the terminology involved. After battling for a year, I left them - they didn't care they were losing not only a client, but all of that client's policies. The poor new company, I'm barely with them a month and wham. It took time, but I can't say they gave me any grief, idiocy or sassiness.
I've reviewed the thread, but I can't say I gained tremendous ex post facto insight / understanding of what the Yi was trying to tell me, save for the obvious

 

[Liselle]

Things often seem "obvious" once we know what happened, though. For example, since we now know that roping the pine to the other trees was one step in a successful solution, we know for sure that's what 12.1 meant, rather than just guessing about it.

So two good things happened here, I think: the readings were encouraging; they helped fortify your own good sense about not doing drastic things (lopping off the tree's head, for example) and now we can state with certainty what certain readings meant in a specific case.

A highly successful bunch of readings, I'd say .