HELP! It is my son's birthday today. I really want to see him. Will I see my son today? 58.1.2.4 to 8

[ichinglover123]

Hello all. This is my first time posting in shared readings. About a year or so ago, I had a private session with Hilary about a few issues. I read the shared readings if I throw the coins (online), however I have never posted to ask for assistance until today. I am familiar with the IChing but remain very much a beloved novice.

My son will be 26 today (9 Oct). He and I are estranged. To make a lifetime story short. His father and I separated when he was a few months old. I returned under duress to my home country as the relationship was emotionally and mentally abusive. After his father locked me in the house, I felt physical abuse was not far off and left him. I then stayed in the foreign country until his father made it again impossible for me to stay with any peace of mind. So I finally returned to my home country.

Fast forward to today. My son is angry with me because he feels I kept him from his father out of spite. I did not. Due to his father's behavior and bringing in the courts (he initiated that, not I), there were necessary restraints (like having a lawyer hold his passport so he could not kidnap my son), but he could have seen our son by arrangement.

Anyway, now that my son is grown he blames me for his father's non-involvement or I guess maybe he feels rejected by him? My son did not have a bad life, however I understand that he has his own perspective. His stepfather (a man I was with for many years - and practically also raised my son), is still in his life. My son went to good schools and is a professional dancer soon to leave the country in November to join a prestigious show where he will be highlighted. It's the beginning of his professional dance career and I am happy for him.

However, he has continued to blame me for everything and treat me rudely. I tried talking to him but his mind is made up. I was hoping that we could (with his stepfather) at least meet today for dinner to celebrate both his birthday and the coming back of work (it's been a scary 7 months with all theatres closed down). I am an actor/writer/director and his stepfather is a photographer/filmmaker. My son's father is also an actor/writer/musician.

So far, he is ignoring his stepfather's phone calls and texts. He has blocked me from communication as well. I am distraught at the thought that my son hates me so much. He is refusing to see me on his birthday. And soon will be leaving the country for who knows how long and will I ever see or talk to him again??

Not to get ahead of myself, I only asked the one question this morning. Here is my completely novice take on things. Forgive me if I write this in the wrong format.

58. OPENING

'Opening, creating success.
Constancy bears fruit'

So far so good. Opening the mouth and good, happy things coming out. We will meet and talk nicely and warmly with each other? Im not sure if I am putting too much of a positive spin on things. I'm desperate.

Line 1
Responsive opening, good fortune

Line 2
True and confident opening, good fortune

Line 4
Negotiating opening, not yet at rest.
Containing the affliction brings rejoicing.

8. SEEKING UNION

I am willing to not talk about anything other than pleasantries. Particularly as it's his birthday and I really really don't want to argue with him. I'm not even trying to change his mind as I see that course of action fails miserably. But I am having a hard time accepting total rejection from my son. I really do love him and have sacrificed alot for him. Anyway, I can feel myself defending myself. I just don't know what to do or what this means. I'm sorry if I'm breaking a rule regarding yes/no questions,but that is my question. And by "see" I mean in person and that we connect.

The reading seems positive except for the last line. There is an opening, but only if I focus on pleasantries? Sometimes I read positive things about 8 others not so positive. Yes, I am seeking union with my son, but maybe it is saying that's what I want but I won't get it?

Ok, sorry for the novel! Any feedback or suggestions are welcome. If there are follow up questions you feel I could ask please advise. Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it more than you know. Many blessings. Namaste.

 

[Trojina]

Line 3
Negotiating opening, not yet at rest.
Containing the affliction brings rejoicing.

That's line 4 not 3.


How very sad for you. The reading does look auspicious to me for a meet up. There's openness and joy in lines 1 and 2. Line 4 feels like endless negotiating, a kind of indecision that is more painful than either option would be. Perhaps he is very undecided and is weighing things up. It says 'containing the affliction brings rejoicing' which I always find means to set limits to negotiations. I find it's the pain of 'shall I/shan't I' and just going one way or the other is a relief. In smaller matters, in purchases and things it can drive you insane. You say he has blocked you so you can't ask him again ? If you can ask him again then I suggest you do.


Given the situation I hesitate to say it bodes well for fear of disappointment however it does bode well for seeing him. It's a promising reading, I do hope you will meet up since it must be terrible for you.


Not much consolation but if he won't see you remember he will see the truth about his father and you in time, he's still young.

 

[ichinglover123]

Hello Trojina!

Thank you for your reply. Your responses are always very measured and wise. I appreciate it. I tried to change the mistake in the message but it would only let me change the title (which is correct). I'll look around on the system more to see how to edit the text in the message. (EDIT: I fixed the line number in my original post)

I am unable to contact him. I hesitate to just show up at his door as I feel that is forcing the issue and it will not go well. I did that last month, just show up at his door and he wouldn't let me in his apartment. We spoke in my car. And it ended with him being very upset and leaving. I knew then that my worst fears were coming true. That he blames me for everything.

I don't know if he ever will see the truth about his father and I. At this time, it doesn't seem possible. But if I don't see him today or before he leaves the country I don't know how I will go on. I am completely bereft. If I could ask him to see us on his birthday somehow (he's blocked me on the phone and facebook), I'm nervous that I will say the wrong thing and ruin it all any way. I just don't know what to do anymore. I guess I am just left with this suffering?

 

[Trojina]

I tried to change the mistake in the message but it would only let me change the title (which is correct). I'll look around on the system more to see how to edit the text in the message.

Doesn't matter I just wanted to highlight it especially for other respondents who I hope will show up.


The strange thing is this is a happy hopeful reading. It doesn't seem at all to describe the awfulness of this separation. I don't think the I Ching is saying you won't see your son or that this will go on forever not at all, quite the reverse. I don't understand why this is but I do trust Yi's answers and so I don't feel it's over.


His behaviour does seem pretty extreme, cruel even, so clearly he is incredibly upset which is a pity for both of you. Why does Yi give this reading then. As a sentence it says 'Opening's Union' or 'Joy's Uniting' you know it's a very happy cast really. Perhaps he will make a move to you before he goes, I do hope so.

 

[rosada]

58.1
Hexagram 58 is about the state of communication and joyful sharing and the first line describes the state one is in before entering into this experience. Line 1 says that in order for there to be joyful sharing one must first be in a place where their personal joy is not dependent on other people.
So I think the I Ching is saying you have got to be strong, basically you have to be a free spirit who is not manipulated by your son's hostility. Perhaps it is also saying to think of your son as a free spirit who needs to experience himself as independent so he can step back from his family issues and no longer look for anyone to blame for his troubles and indeed to recognize that he doesn't need to continue to think of himself as having troubles. Whatever, the sense here is to recognize you mustn't let him lock you into a house of unhappiness as his father did. "If there is no reason to be happy then be happy for no reason."

58.2
This line represents the importance of sincerity but also the dangers of putting on a false show. It may be his birthday but to try to wish him well now may not be possible if he's not feeling it.

58.4
Again, false displays of affection aren't helpful but there is a possibility here of his realizing his inappropriate attitude towards you and moving towards making amends.

Altogether I think the I Ching is saying do nothing, take care of yourself and don't reach out to him pretending that all is fine and dandy. You may have to let this day go by without contact but by doing so he may come to 8. Seek Union with you later on. There's an old saying, "How can they miss you if you don't go away?"

 

[marybluesky]

Hello;

did you meet your son?

 

[Trojina]

One other line 4 related thought is that this may take a while to sort out. I think it bodes well long term.

 

[long yi]

Hello all. This is my first time posting in shared readings. About a year or so ago, I had a private session with Hilary about a few issues. I read the shared readings if I throw the coins (online), however I have never posted to ask for assistance until today. I am familiar with the IChing but remain very much a beloved novice.

My son will be 26 today (9 Oct). He and I are estranged. To make a lifetime story short. His father and I separated when he was a few months old. I returned under duress to my home country as the relationship was emotionally and mentally abusive. After his father locked me in the house, I felt physical abuse was not far off and left him. I then stayed in the foreign country until his father made it again impossible for me to stay with any peace of mind. So I finally returned to my home country.

Fast forward to today. My son is angry with me because he feels I kept him from his father out of spite. I did not. Due to his father's behavior and bringing in the courts (he initiated that, not I), there were necessary restraints (like having a lawyer hold his passport so he could not kidnap my son), but he could have seen our son by arrangement.

Anyway, now that my son is grown he blames me for his father's non-involvement or I guess maybe he feels rejected by him? My son did not have a bad life, however I understand that he has his own perspective. His stepfather (a man I was with for many years - and practically also raised my son), is still in his life. My son went to good schools and is a professional dancer soon to leave the country in November to join a prestigious show where he will be highlighted. It's the beginning of his professional dance career and I am happy for him.

However, he has continued to blame me for everything and treat me rudely. I tried talking to him but his mind is made up. I was hoping that we could (with his stepfather) at least meet today for dinner to celebrate both his birthday and the coming back of work (it's been a scary 7 months with all theatres closed down). I am an actor/writer/director and his stepfather is a photographer/filmmaker. My son's father is also an actor/writer/musician.

So far, he is ignoring his stepfather's phone calls and texts. He has blocked me from communication as well. I am distraught at the thought that my son hates me so much. He is refusing to see me on his birthday. And soon will be leaving the country for who knows how long and will I ever see or talk to him again??

Not to get ahead of myself, I only asked the one question this morning. Here is my completely novice take on things. Forgive me if I write this in the wrong format.

58. OPENING

'Opening, creating success.
Constancy bears fruit'

So far so good. Opening the mouth and good, happy things coming out. We will meet and talk nicely and warmly with each other? Im not sure if I am putting too much of a positive spin on things. I'm desperate.

Line 1
Responsive opening, good fortune

Line 2
True and confident opening, good fortune

Line 4
Negotiating opening, not yet at rest.
Containing the affliction brings rejoicing.

8. SEEKING UNION

I am willing to not talk about anything other than pleasantries. Particularly as it's his birthday and I really really don't want to argue with him. I'm not even trying to change his mind as I see that course of action fails miserably. But I am having a hard time accepting total rejection from my son. I really do love him and have sacrificed alot for him. Anyway, I can feel myself defending myself. I just don't know what to do or what this means. I'm sorry if I'm breaking a rule regarding yes/no questions,but that is my question. And by "see" I mean in person and that we connect.

The reading seems positive except for the last line. There is an opening, but only if I focus on pleasantries? Sometimes I read positive things about 8 others not so positive. Yes, I am seeking union with my son, but maybe it is saying that's what I want but I won't get it?

Ok, sorry for the novel! Any feedback or suggestions are welcome. If there are follow up questions you feel I could ask please advise. Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it more than you know. Many blessings. Namaste.

My two cents worth comments are as follows:

Hex 58 is 011-011 (0 = yin line, 1 = yang line). Both trigrams are tui.

Tui is a female and there are two females involved.

Hex 58 is a six strike hexagram. Line 1 & 4, line 2 & 5, line 3 & 6 conflict each other.

Hex 8 is a soul returning hexagram.

58.6 (0) host line – parents ding wei earth; 8.6 (0) guest line - child mou zi water

58.5 (1) brothers ding you metal; 8.5 (1) parents mou xu earth

58.4 (1) child ding hai water change to 8.4 (0) brother mou shen metal

58.3 (0) guest line – parents ding chou earth; 8.3 (0) host line: wife yi mao wood

58.2 (1) wife ding mao wood change to 8.2 (0) officer yi si fire

58.1 (1) officer ding si fire changes to 8.1 (0) parents yi wei earth

Time domain: on the day of your reading:

Wu fire, wei earth is both month void and day void. Parents line wei earth is void. There is no bottom to your heart on this matter.

Month is xu earth; Day is you metal.


Question: Mother and son relationship

Mother: parents line; 58.6 host line parents wei earth which is day and month void, this is you because you are the parents and the host at present. Under time domain and the element is void, you do not exist is his life.

There is a guest line 58.3 parents chou earth. Guest line is son, 58.3 is a yin line in the yang line position. This position is powerless. In the son’s mind, he ignore his stepfather.

Son: child line; 58.4 is the child line hai water which is also the movement star line. He moves towards 8.4 brother shen metal. Brother is a friend or someone else at the peer level (similar age). However, metal produces water. The other party pushes him back (not to run).

The child line is at the outer door position (line 4) and you are far away at the line 6 position.

Hai water child (son) + wei earth (parents) + mao wood (line 58.2) form a three part union.

Line 58.2 is a key line out of three change line. That change counts.

58.2 (1) wife ding mao wood change to 8.2 (0) officer yi si fire. The female at 58.2 pushes the officer (probably man). She is not trying hard enough to connect that union of son and parents. It is not the officer’s job to connect the son and the mother.


58.1 is the officer line.

58.1 (1) officer ding si fire changes to 8.1 (0) parents yi wei earth

He is engaged to help with the improvement of the parents – son situation, but this is not his place.



The outcome is embedded in hexagram 8 (soul returning hexagram). In Tao, closing the way or keeping it open to make peace.

In hex 8, the host line is 8.3 (0) host line: wife yi mao wood. The female has to take charge.

Under time domain of you metal month, wife mao wood is month conflict under the parents’ relationship month pillar. Line 8.5 parents xu earth and 8.3 wife mao wood couples. The female has to work to change things.

If you carefully at the Hex 8.6 child line zi water host line and the hex 8.3 guest line is wife mao wood. The water produces the wood, but it cannot get to the wood because of line 8.4 and 8.5.

Hex 8 is li fire above kun earth. The kun earth part is too lean back and not doing enough to build the relationship. The female has to do the work herself than to count on her partner to build the bridge. Sincerity means that the female should not push the work to someone else.

Hexagram 8 shows the relationship is dissolving. One must find new ways to group things and strip away old ideas. Harmony is the key. Help to join things together and connect with all the different people to rebuild a relationship before the way is closed.

You are inside the origin of the group at 8.2. Do not slip away and put your ideas to trial.

Hex 8.4 represents the brother line person is outside the group. If this person has value and is willing to put new ideas to trial, then the relationship rebuilding may work.

Take home lesson: try new ideas to connect before the way is closed. Ask for help when needed. Do not ask your partner to do your work. Check around who is the person of value outside your mother – son dispute. He/she can help also.

 

[moss elk]

In 58 as in 8,
the jun zi does something about it
Joins with friends...
Seeks to Join...

Lines 1 and 2 are promising.
Line 4 tells how to manage the emotions to make it successful: Regulate the Anxiety you may have about it.

So, overall, the reading advises YOU to reach out to him and to limit the anxiety you and he may both have that gets in the way of happiness, or makes you quickly speak words that can botch things up.

When I got line 4, I met the person and immediately said, "I feel nervous right now." The other person said, "me too!"
We both laughed, lightened up, and had good communication afterwards.

If you were only asking about that day, I would say No, he had plans with friends.

 

[Trojina]

Tui is a female and there are two females involved.

No it's a mother and son. Also it doesn't follow that double Tui = 2 females. It's just not like that, it's not like any time a person casts hexagram 58 there's 2 women involved.

 

[moss elk]

Also it doesn't follow that double Tui = 2 females. It's just not like that, it's not like any time a person casts hexagram 58 there's 2 women involved.

Exactly, the other three feminine doubled trigrams (2, 29, 57) also don't mean that.

They mean what they mean.
And the meaning is found in the text.

 

[ichinglover123]

Hello Trojina et al!

I appreciate each and every one of your posts. Thank you so much for helping me. I very much appreciate it and you.

So, the update. I did get to see my son on his birthday Friday 9th Oct. Prior to that day and on that day (which is why I posted) I was feeling desperate and upset. But after throwing the I-Ching and writing it all down, I felt calmer. I instinctively knew not to chase him. As Rosada said in her post: There's an old saying, "How can they miss you if you don't go away?" So although I was not physically near him, energetically, psychically I gave him space. I say I did it, but I didn't really do anything. I just suddenly felt still inside. I could not contact him as I cannot call him or use facebook (he has blocked me from both). I did contact his stepfather who made the calls and sent texts for us all to meet. Then I just let it go.

Late afternoon I received a text from my son's stepfather (we are no longer together), that we would meet at a restaurant in my neighborhood. I took an uber there and met them at 7pm. We said hello. Made small chit chat and were seated. The evening went pleasantly enough. We didn't speak of anything particularly significant and I made a concerted effort to keep everything light and breezy. I had no wish to discuss anything heavy or that would upset him on his birthday anyway. Afterwards, we had a light hug goodbye and I got into my uber and went home.

When I got home I was grateful to have seen him but sad too. I haven't seen him since that night. He will be going away on 9th Nov to do a job in Australia. So I guess if it looks like he'll be leaving the country for years without saying goodbye I'll be back here throwing the Yi!

In terms of interpretation, Trojina and Rosada were on the money and accurate in terms of what actually ended up happening, the underlying issues and how I should handle it. I felt very supported. Thank you both so much! I feel grateful for all the responses and attempts to help me understand the situation. Have a wonderful evening

 

[marybluesky]

Happy to read that ichinglover!

A proof that we can be hopeful about promising casts