...life can be translucent

Menu

Help! Job-searching - turning point - # 51, # 28.2 to 31

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hi guys!

Last week, I got a response in the mail from the car rental company I interviewed with a couple of weeks ago saying that they weren't going to hire me. I really thought I would get that job this time...so I was very disappointed when I learned the news. Anyway, I do not know if you recall but I got very valuable advice and insights from you guys right before that interview?
I feel that I am in a turning point in my job-searching now so I have tried to "retreat" somehow and consulted the I Ching. I have been looking for a job (both in France and in the US) for about two and a half years, it's been most certainly the toughest time I have ever been through in my entire life. I have been through so many ups and downs, along with numerous disappointments. When I started to look for a job about 2 and 1/2 years ago I wasn't psychologically prepared to do so...I had many fears/insecurities I had no choice but to face. ASKING for a job is still not something that I feel naturally comfortable with but I have gone a long way since I have graduated. However, sometimes I feel like I am cursed, that maybe there is something that I was supposed to learn through this ordeal that I haven't yet and that's precisely why I am still looking for a job!

Anyway, my questions were:

Why do I have so much trouble finding a job?
I got 28.2 moving to hex. 31

I do not know if this reading is telling me about
a transitional phase I had to go through to become a Man (as opposed to a child)
or that I have lacked humility throughout my job hunting
or that something in my behavior is too excessive?
Should I overcome one of these obstacles and my personality will be somewhat transformed, which would result in a greater capacity to appeal to employers? That was my little scenario. ;-) What is your take on this one?

What direction should I take with my job-searching from now on?
I got hex. 51 with no moving lines

I do not know if this has to do with some inner (personality) change or something altogether different.

My last question is more specific and isn't really part of my current "retreat":
How about working with this company? (a company that is currently hiring, which I have recently heard about)
I got 17.3, 5, & 6 moving to hex. 30

This reading seems sort of positive but I do not know what the I Ching is trying to tell me more precisely. Are the moving lines at the top speaking of achieving hefty goals or something?

Any kind of input from you would be hugely appreciated.
 
C

candid

Guest
Mr. Taoist,

Nice to hear from you again, and sorry about the last prospect going south.

For now I'll address what I see in your first reading. I think there are two suggestions here. One is that you stay the course you're on. The change line I think indicates being prepared to accept a position lower than what you may be qualified for. The older man taking a younger wife.

It may be of interest to know that this is a common and successful path for people who are getting back on their feet after a large setback. It tests every aspect of one's being, especially the old ego.

When I was going through something similar, my closest friend put it to me this way: Bruce, sometimes the Universe just wants to make sure you are earnest and willing to humble yourself. For me, that job was only interim. Truthfully, I was awful at it. Then there was more down trial time. And then there was pushing upward and the small dragon making his appearance in the field. What I've realized is that I really do not desire the more prestigious and lucrative positions I once held. That was quite a revelation and no small relief to learn.

31 is like wooing, or winning over your prospective employer.

(might as well continue)

51 is calm within the storm. I'm sure you understand.

"How about working with this (or that) company?" 17, Following has success. The question becomes, what to follow? Line 3 follows the strong man, and thus loses the young boy. There are real losses in losing the young boy. But that's life, we make our choices and live with them. (My suggestion is to keep contact with the young boy, just don?t let him call the shots.) Line 5 points to following high ideals, those things which go beyond jobs and such. There?s great power in faith, especially when its hard to muster up. Line 6 accomplishes both, ideals and practical works, and so is welcomed and honored into higher realms.

30, hold onto what you?ve got, what progress you?ve made, and be prepared to grasp the bird of opportunity. Fire holds downward and burns upward.

Hope this helps.
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hi Candid,

First, how do you feel? I have read in the forum you felt better but, tell me, how better? Are your nights almost back to normal?

Thank you so much for sharing your insights and experience with me! That's helped to get a clearer picture of my situation ... I still have a lot to do with regard to calming the mind though... ;-o (hex. 51)

I have a few questions regarding a few things that were in your reply:

? do you understand hex. 28 as meaning carry on, stay the course, in my situation?

? what's your theory about the meaning of 31 in relation to my question:
- you have so much trouble finding a job because (you were looking for jobs for which you're qualified) and you haven't been able to win over the employers with whom you met.

- you have so much trouble finding a job because (you were looking for jobs for which you're qualified) but if you can change that state of affairs you will be able to win employers over.

? As far as the last question is concerned, what does mean losing the young boy? My innocence? Is there anything that would point to danger or deception in this moving line?
How are these lines to be interpreted? I do not understand how they relate to my question.

Thank you Candid.

-- Christophe / French Taoist

Any input from anybody else would be very much appreciated too! ;-)
 
C

candid

Guest
Christophe,

Thanks for asking. I started 3 mg. of Melatonin last night, and so we'll see how that works after a few days. I was told not to expect results too soon but I slept better than usual last night. My batteries are still charging.

You ask good but difficult questions. I'll be able to focus better on them in the morning.

Till then.
 
C

candid

Guest
Good morning!

? do you understand hex. 28 as meaning carry on, stay the course, in my situation?

I interpret 28 as being ?swamped? as in a flood, or as being in something over your head. Being that it is a temporary condition, all one can do is remain true to themselves, remain firmly planted until the flood recedes.

? what's your theory about the meaning of 31 in relation to my question?

31 is a picture of the youngest son deferring to the youngest daughter, not incest but figuratively, as in a courtship. This courtship is akin to the mutual attraction between an employee and employer. Hiring someone is rarely a completely pragmatic decision.

? As far as the last question is concerned, what does mean losing the young boy?

This was in regard to another particular job interview, for which you received 17. In particular I was referring to 17.3. ?If one clings to the strong man, one loses the little boy.? I applied this as meaning, not taking refuge in trivial concerns but stepping up to the plate and taking a mighty swing at the ball. (An American baseball sport term.) My reference to keeping in touch with the small boy was meant half humorously, inferring the value of youth?s light-heartedness and inquisitiveness.

Does this help?
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Good morning Candid,

thanks for answering so promptly! Yes, it did help clarify a few things.

I'm very glad to hear you seem to have noticeably better nights! Keep us updated about your Melatonin treatment.

-- Christophe/French_Taoist

PS by the way, thanks for introducing me to "I Ching expert" humor! ;-D
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hello Dij,

I cannot tell you how thankful I am for your thoughtfulness. When i read your message in the forum I was kind of stunned and it made me smile. I couldn't believe you did that for me! :)

I need to go over the reading again (and might even need some help to extract the essence of it) but as far as I can tell it seems like it could be an extremely helpful reading.

Thanks so much again! :)

-- Christophe/French_Taoist

PS thanks for the link, it definitely can come in handy!
 

heylise

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 15, 1970
Messages
3,079
Reaction score
8
Just looking at the two hexagrams, I thought: it is the time (hex.60). There are cycles, and now is a cycle which makes job-hunting difficult.
If you adapt to the cycle easy (line 4) and sweet (line 5) you will feel relieved.

But of course this is no solution at all to the hunting itself, only to your inner feelings. Maybe in this answer the Yi did not look to the job-hunting, but to your inner 'difficulty'? Comforting you?

LiSe
 

dij

visitor
Joined
Aug 31, 1972
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
Hey C/FT

can I ask you a question?

from your posts I understood that you have been looking [unsuccessfully] for a job for 2.5 years. Is this right?
What I wonder about is how are you supporting yourself all this time, where do your living expenses come from?

I don't mean to pry, of course, it's just that I understood the reading of 60 that I got for casting for you to mean that you are looking for jobs that may be out of your reach at present and that perhaps you should try accepting something else. (I think Candid understood the same from your reading)

On a non- Yi related note it occured to me that if you are not forced to accept any job going in order to pay rent, then you'd likely be way more choosy and consequently hold out for jobs that you may think you want but that you may not be actually ready for.

I hope none of this is offensive, I would hate you to think I'm having opinions about your life of which I know nothing of.

But anyway, I hope it helps. We have all been in situations looking for jobs and encountering some sort of problems, whether external or internal, and sometimes both.

Best..
 

dobro p

visitor
Joined
May 19, 1972
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
3
I think all your problems are arising out of the fact that you've chosen French toast for your nick...
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hello LiSe,

Sorry for the delay in responding. Thanks a lot for your input!
So, LiSe, you see it more as advice from the I Ching on how emotionally to respond to the difficulties with my job-hunting rather than the Yi giving me the reason(s) why it's so difficult for me to find a job, right?

My current take on hex.60 in relation to situation is twofold:
- First, as far as looking for a job I tend to have no limitations, I tend to scatter all over the place, meaning I have applied to quite different positions from Financial Advisor and entry-level Retail Manager and Management Trainee for a car rental company to Office Manager and French Teacher, etc Because what I need right now is to be financially independent so I apply to jobs I feel I am qualified to do (entry-level) but there is no real coherence regarding a specific work objective.
The reason for that is that I do not really know what I want to to do at this point, I just want to make a living (I just know the type of jobs I really do not want to do). With regard to my academic background I have a French License (BA) in Applied Foreign Languages (English-Japanese and Czech), a BA in Business Management, and I have started some graduate coursework in Computer Science.
You see how all this looks quite scattered too!

- My other theory about hex.60 which also felt very right to me (it was sort of a shock of recognition to me) is the following:
Laurence G. Boldt has expressed it perfectly in "Zen and the Art of Making A Living"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140195998/qid=1085865077/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-7491669-4243942?v=glance&s=books
Basically what he says is there are only 2 great fears: the fear of dying and the fear of living. We fear living because we don't believe we are adequate to life. But he argues Nature is intelligent and benevolent, It provides every living creature with all the tools to be adequate to life. It's just that we are not aware of it.
Boldt views work as Art. I'll take the freedom to quote him here:
"Artists play with limitation. They neither deny, nor are they overwhelmed by it. There are only so many words in any language, but that doesn't keep the poet from writing. There is only a certain range of color the eye can see, but this doesn't keep the painter from painting(...) The artist accepts the limitations of form, not with fear and dread, but as the starting point of creation."
He also adds: "You can be the artist of your life by recognizing that, for all of your limitations, you are basically adequate to life. For all of its difficulties, life is basically adequate for you. Accept that, while it may not fit some imaginary conception of perfection, the world is basically adequate; and you are basically adequate to the world. Be here now with what is, and play with the stuff of your life. If you have twelve crayons in your box, use your creativity and resourcefulness to make the best picture you can with these. Don't spend your time worrying that someone else has forty-eight or sixty-four crayons (...)"

Just a remark that could add some meaning to the above, I am known to be a hell of a perfectionist!

I could go on like this for longer but I'll have to stop quoting him here ;-)!

I thought I would share this with you guys.

Thanks again LiSe! Hope your birthday was limitations free! ;-)

-- Christophe/French_Taoist
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hello Dij,

Yes, this is right. I have been looking for a job for the past 2 and 1/2 years.
Here is some back ground info: I started my job search right after Sept.11.On many levels, it was real tough then, so we decided we would move to Europe for a while and ultimately come back live here in North America. From France, I started a distant job-hunt in the London area but I soon realized that if I didn't go to London and once there look for a job I wouldn't get anywhere. However, I couldn't afford living expenses in London, which is one of the most expensive cities in the world. So, I resorted to look locally instead, that is in the French Alps knowing that the job market was pretty bad but at least I didn't have to worry about accomodation and food expenses as I was staying over my parents. After a while, living with my parents was getting tough so I decided to rent a small apartment while I kept looking for a job. Welfare covered most of my living expenses, for the rest my father was loaning me the money. After nearly two years of unsucessful job-hunt in France, my wife and I felt we were just stagnating. Our best bet was now to move back to the US where the job market wasn't at its best but still was much better than in France. However, we could move only if my in-laws were willing to accommodate us at least until I found a full time job as there was no way we could afford paying for rent, especially here in CT.

As for me looking for jobs which I may not be qualified for, i have a hard time understanding that as virtually all jobs I applied to were entry-level ones requiring less than a year of working experience. And some of the jobs I applied to only required high school or 2 year degrees. The first few months we were here, I even applied for part time jobs in food retail to stock shelves, yet they didn't have any vacancies at that time. Later, I decided I would only apply to full-time, decently paid jobs (at least $2,000/mo) because my wife and I want to be able to move into an apartment as soon as possible. This feeling of urgency become more and more real after my son was born, a couple of months ago!

On the other hand, I completely understand that I should start from the bottom up (entry-level jobs, management training programs, etc.) as I have very little experience.

The problem with doing a full time job stocking shelves is that I won't be able to be financially independent, meaning I would still have to depend on my in-laws for accommodation and I won't get any experience in my field.

One last note, I currently have a small part time job (as an independent contractor) but it hardly covers toiletry expenses!

I hope this answers your question.

Thank you for your insights and your interest!

-- Christophe/French_Taoist
 

hilary

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
14,193
Reaction score
154
Salut Christophe...

Not a whole reading but a fragmentary thought on #60. The way you describe your job search - 'no limitations, I tend to scatter all over the place' - this is pure Hexagram 59. No limits, artificial barriers swept away or dissolved, leaving wide, wide horizons.

59 needs 60 to complete it. Having got rid of the artificial limitations - for instance, not looking for a job narrowly defined by your academic qualifications - you need to find some real, vital limits. Or to borrow a better translation of the title from Ritsema/Karcher: to articulate what you are looking for. I would guess that 'money to live independently!' is very sensible in itself, but not clear enough - not something you can actually taste. Or borrowing your image: you need to use your twelve crayons to draw a crisp, clear picture for yourself.

Of course, this is only a small fragment of a third of a reading, but does it make sense to you?
 

heylise

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 15, 1970
Messages
3,079
Reaction score
8
Now I have to thank you, Christophe, because you gave a whole new dimension to 60.
And Hilary for making it concrete.

LiSe
 
C

candid

Guest
Hi Christophe,

First, whatever cause there may be to not finding suitable work, based on your responses here, openness certainly isn't one. You seem open and clear, far as I can tell.

One other thought on 60: It isn't always a matter of narrowing or limiting. Sometimes its just a matter of organizing, such as organizing your talents, aptitudes and natural interests.

Its like consulting Yi on love issues and wishes, Yi will usually reorganize one's priorities so that one does not only the 'right thing' but does it for the right reasons, in the right spirit. When a woman is courted to suit a purpose, innocence and natural flow is lost. When it is a matter of natural and spontaneous attraction, things just flow together (31).

When a person wants to escape poverty they can search out of need. For the common person this is acceptable. But for one who lives the Way, searching from a position of need can be inappropriate. In order to achieve one's larger purpose its important to define that purpose. A Biblical example of this is - seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, and all these (specific) things will be added unto you. Establish a picture of your wholeness, and from this, one can organize the details and priorities within it.

As difficult as it sometimes seems, believing that the Universe has no needs, and therefore neither do you, is a big step in reorganizing priorities. Of course at such times we must be careful not to slide into idle waiting. The creative action of the sage never ceases, but it does know how to limit itself.

There is something for you. I truly believe this. What that is and how you get there is matter of establishing priorities, and then acting, tirelessly. Knowing when to act and when to return is the art of living. It therefore is the art of working and finding appropriate work.

At first I thought, perhaps your mind is closed to accepting a humble position, but based on what I've read here I don't think this is the case. It sounds more like narrowing your field of activity than expanding it.

See the big picture, not forgetting the spiritual (for lack of a better word). From this an image will appear. It may be big or small, complete or partial, but following brings success when you follow out of Tao rather than need.

I'm rooting for you!

Candid
 

dij

visitor
Joined
Aug 31, 1972
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
Hi again

thank you for the background Christophe, you have no idea how helpful it is to learn about other people's struggles - I was in a similar position, desperate to find a job, but only for 4 months, and I have to be honest, I wasn't really trying that hard. {chuckle}

It does seem as if you need to formulate a 'plan' or a strategy. Narrow down your search.
Good luck with that. You may need career advice rather than Yi advice.


In the meantime, as someone who has some experience from both sides of the recruitment process I can tell you that employers are reluctant to employ overqualified people. I have said this so many times to people, but I guess when you've worked really hard on something it's difficult not to take pride in it.

I think you misunderstood what I meant by 'ready for'. You may be very qualified for a job, but if life wants you to have an experience of some sort first, it will find a way for you to have that experience whether you want it or not. So maybe (on some level) you are not ready to live the life you are trying to live.

Make sure and keep us posted and congratulations on the birth of your child.
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hello Hilary,

Very nice to read you. Yes, I think it makes sense. I would just need some clarification about what you said. To the question "why am I looking for a job/do I want to find a job?", are you saying that my answer isn't clear enough? that I should be able to come up with something that is more tangible, clearer, and better defined?

Hilary, your "fragment of a third of a reading", as you put it, was very much appreciated! :) Thank you.

-- Christophe/French_Taoist
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
LiSe, coming from you, I'll definitely take this as a compliment! :) Thanks!

-- Christophe/French_Taoist
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hi Candid,

You know, through the job-hunting process I had to do some serious humbling. For example, to my family, living off welfare was unthinkable, something shameful, however I thought it was the only responsible way of proceeding at the time. Also, I had to swallow my pride when I applied to jobs consisting of stocking shelves in retail...as when I applied I 100% assumed the choice I had made...I wasn't like "damn, I have to apply to that crappy job...". In addition, in France, very few people who have a four-year degree would apply to that kind of jobs (hence the high unemployment rate).

As for your idea of searching from a position of need, which can be inappropriate, it does make a lot of sense to me. It's just that it isn't very easy to apply in the "real world" we live in. Or at least, so it seems when you look around you. I mean, establishing a picture of my wholeness could take years or a lifetime! That's what I am worried about, because naturally I would proceed from the inside out.(establishing the spiritual to reach the physical) (eventhough Jung, for those interested in Jungian Psychology, warned young people -between 20 and 40 of age- against turning too much inward)

Anyway, what you have pointed out in your post is likely to be at the center of my inner work and endeavors in the next few months.

Thanks so much for your encouraging words and extremely valuable insights!

-- Christophe/French_Taoist
 

french_taoist

visitor
Joined
Aug 26, 1972
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hello Dij,

I was thinking, do you think 28.2 I got when I asked "why do I have so much trouble finding a job?" can refer to my being overqualified and that maybe I would be better off if I modified my resume accordingly and didn't mention all my qualifications?

ok. So, by "not being ready" do you mean, like Candid said, that my position of need may be inappropriate and keeps me from achieving anything worthwhile within my job-hunt?

Thanks for your input and your kindness!

-- Christophe/French_Taoist
 
C

candid

Guest
Hi Christophe,

Its a pleasure to assist you in whatever way I can. You seem genuinely engaged in all of this.

While reading your last comments to Dij, two things came to mind about your resume. Do the French not say "less is more?" And on the application of 60, limiting your resume to the job at hand. In other words, dumb it down. Employers in general care only about your last 7 years of experience. More than that appears as baggage. There are exceptions to this, but this is generally true.

I was in a predicament similar to yours not so long ago, and I may again be someday, so I can't speak proudly. During this time I happened upon a book called 'Communion with God' by Neale Donald Walsch. In it, the author listed the 10 illusions in life, the first being 'the illusion of need.' He then hung the 9 other illusions upon the first, as these illusions are all built one upon the other, each one attempting to justify the illusion before it. I wrote these 10 illusions onto a mirror with a bold black marker pen, so that each time I looked at myself I had to also look at my illusions, need always being the first. From this I was able to find new faith in the idea that if the Universe has no need, neither do I. Since the illusion of failure rests on the illusion of need, failure was no longer an option. Neither were disunity, insufficiency, requirement, judgment, condemnation, conditionality, superiority or ignorance. In order to justify one we create the others. If you're inclined to read the book, I think you will find it liberating and empowering.

I don?t know your age, or if you?re between 20-40. I understand why Jung warns of engaging the unconscious too deeply at these younger ages. What I?ve referred to above isn?t a mystical belief but rather a logical pattern of reasoning. Developing life upon your true core can not be a mistake, regardless of age.

We don?t all live by the same rules. We each live by the rules we create and accept. These rules are most often based upon the illusions which support them. In the final analysis, there?s no such thing as need, but what manifests as need can be invaluably useful, much as tools help to build a house. So its not as though we throw out illusion, we just recognize it as potentially useful tools to help build our lives.

Do you need to breathe in order to draw your next breath? If you think you do, you will probably have more difficulty breathing.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top