Hex 29 and Hex 11 - Two Kinds of Flow?

[Hartloper]

Hi all,

in her book "Zapchen Somatic Yi Jing" Julie Henderson lists "Flow" as one of the names for Hexagram 29 while that term is missing from the list of names for Hexagram 11.

In the commentary to the lines of Hexagram 24 I picked up the expression "karmic river". I have received Hexagram 29 quite a few times recently, but have noticed a change in my individual reaction. I don't cringe at receiving it anymore. I know Karcher calls it "Ghost River". To me "Karma River" makes a lot of sense also. I was wondering what others might think. "Karma" can drive us to incessant repetition of the same old neurotic conflicts (the Freudian "repetition compulsion" I would also associate with Hexagram 29). Or you just hold fast the heart and flow through and let it bring you to new destinations.

Hexagram 11 in my personal experience has often indicated positive Flow states, which can be overwhelming at times when that energy hits a rigid psychic structure the individual is not ready to relinquish and open toward change. I wonder whether it would make sense to call Hexagram 11 "The Dharma River".

Hex 29: Karma River
Hex 11: Dharma River.

Just a thought I'd like to put up for discussion here.

Best,

j.

 

[Trojina]

I'm not familiar with Henderson, I don't think it's an approach that would appeal to me since I am not keen when people with particular religious/philosophical perspectives or angles try to lay their vision over the I Ching.

The I Ching is the I Ching IMO, when I consult that is what I want to consult.

In the commentary to the lines of Hexagram 24

I think you meant to write 29?

Hexagram 11 in my personal experience has often indicated positive Flow states, which can be overwhelming at times when that energy hits a rigid psychic structure the individual is not ready to relinquish and open toward change. I wonder whether it would make sense to call Hexagram 11 "The Dharma River".

Hex 29: Karma River
Hex 11: Dharma River.

I really wouldn't like to see hexagram 29 called 'Karma river' or hexagram 11 called 'Dharma river' as that isn't what they are called. I'd rather take the actual translation, the words given, not tamper with them to give a Hindu or Buddhist perspective or any perspective that isn't intrinsically there. Also using those terms narrows meaning. Whilst 29 might connect with karma if you call it 'karma' you narrow the meaning to something spiritual/the concept of karma and the same with calling 11 'dharma river'. Why change what we have been given by the authors of Yi....with every hexagram covering a huge wealth of meaning beneath the hexagram titles.

It would be a great shame surely for a person to consult Yi get 29 and then read 'Karma River' as they would then not be working directly with the words and imagery of Yi itself but with the concept of karma which is not there. Then they'd start thinking about karma and they'd lose the immediacy of what they may be being given. 29 won't always be about karma. I don't mean the concept of karma cannot arise in readings of course, all can be found in Yi but I think it's problematic to rename hexagrams according to one's own religion or philosophy.

However I do see where you are coming from with these names, I'm not saying you are wrong with those connections you make at all - it's just I wouldn't like to see 11 and 29 renamed like that.

Also then again people do creatively rename hexagrams, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as they make it clear that they are making a creative project out of Yi not representing it as it actually is.
I am aware 'representing it as it actually is' is a whole other ball game, clearly translations will differ widely but at least there is the aim of being true to what the Oracle itself says. For me it is very important to stay near to what the Oracle says, I steer away from any versions that are heavily overladen with some kind of world view and of course the concept of dharma is part of a world view as is karma.

 

[Hartloper]

Hi Trojina,

I appreciate your reply. I am totally with you. And my intent was not to rename the Hexagrams as a whole and fix them to a particular meaning. It was just a moment when it seemed helpful to also look at Hex 29 and Hex 11 in this sense, and when I use the terms "dharma" or "karma", they might be of Hindu and Buddhist origin, but I don't use them in a merely conceptual sense.

But I'm not really clear about what I mean right now, maybe later.

Best,

j.