hex 60>19... what a response!

[mozzer]

Good morning to all, I ask humbly and with all my heart to those who will be kind enough to answer me, to read this post that I expect will be a bit long.

I am a very spiritual person, the circumstances of life have led me to look for non superficial answers to problems that have also been very serious. I am 52 years old and I have been consulting I ching since I was 18.... I should be an expert! But who can say they are about a similar subject...?

The theme here is always the same: love.

I have the presumption of knowing what it is, of having learned it to the sound of hard lessons. Who knows me well always repeats to me that I am a person who has a lot to give, but I am alone, more and more alone, reluctantly I am forced to recognize that in a society like today's, all smartphone and appearance, no one wants to look for a serious relationship, mature, a deep relationship, challenging, that puts us in play, that puts us in front of our most intimate reality, without discounts.

But I still believe in it and I will always believe in it.

I looked for it, I deluded myself that I had found it, maybe I also found it really: more often I was wrong.
But that's life.

I'm here to write to you under a tree that I particularly love, it's just me, the wind and a bird singing.

So... I've known a colleague by sight for years, we always say goodbye, every time she smiles at me with a smile that other people have also noticed: but more than a few coffees I have never been able to offer them. Until recently we talked to each other a bit, to tell the truth I had the impression that it was she who gave me the rope, a bit like saying to step forward, and so I did, I asked her out: invitation accepted!

I first consulted the oracle about whether or not to invite her and I got 60 delimitation, with the fifth mobile, then 19, the approach. What a complicated response...

So she accepts the invitation, but not immediately, the day I proposed, postpones it a few days later (the sweet delimitation?).
The day I set it, she calls me to make an agreement (I didn't expect it!) so let's go out.

She is a beautiful woman, extremely elegant, of great class. 52 years old she too, lives alone, has legions of suitors, travels, does sport, cinema, theatre, 1000 activities... We talk a lot right away, she asks me dozens of questions, she wants to know everything about me, religion, politics, my failed marriage, where I live, what I do, what books I read, what music I listen to. She gives me a lot of compliments, I make her laugh, we drink champagne ..... all right, right?

And here comes the 19th.

With all these questions it seems to me to speak only about me, she speaks of herself, of an important story ended 11 years ago followed by many less important stories always with the same scheme: men leave her because she is too independent.

She asks me how I live in the condition of not having children, like her. I feel that for her it is an immense void, and I realize that all this eagerness to live, people, activities, is nothing more than the desire to fill that void, and the image of independent and autonomous woman, master of his time, is largely a mask.

I tell her that I am an orphan and she is struck by it because she is terrified of losing her parents: she wants to know how it feels and then I am forced to tell her intimate details of my mother's death, and she even gets moved by saying while she dries her eyes "but you tell things so well!

I could still write a lot of things, the evening goes on like this, I'm a little puzzled because suddenly she remembers that she was invited to dinner with her ex and writes to him to cancel the appointment (I understand her busy life but that seems to me exaggerated!).

We decide to meet again for a dinner, next Saturday we will go to the theater, and also accepts the invitation for a future trip to the sea (his commitments permitting, I think ...).

I bring her back home, after 5 minutes she already writes to me to ask me (again!) what a rock band I told her about is called. I answer by thanking her for the evening, she answers in the morning by thanking me for the beautiful, interesting and "dense" words.

The approach was undoubtedly there!
But I also see clearly the next misfortune....

What do you think?

 

[GeraldC]

I'm not able to see where all your negativity comes from, to be honest. You got a great response to your initial question. 60.5 talks about a perfect condition to advance. And in the literary sense, restrictions leading to approach, that's just what happened. Every contract and every appointment is in it's own nature restrictive. I.e., to say: "Let us meet at the theatre at 9 o'clock" is a form of restriction, which excludes the option of meeting at 6 o'clock. The 5th line does not talk about negative restrictions, but good restrictions that will lead to the approach of your intent. That is just what happened in this case.
The date you enjoyed with her seemed to be perfectly fine, she even make it known to you, that she would cancel the meeting with her Ex, to show you that she is committed to get to know you better, which might probably lead to a relationship. She would be in for it, but of course you two need to know each other better over time. In your current position, you would have all reason to be optimistic and positive about this situation, don't overthink it, overburden it with negative thoughts, it does all sound pretty good and cool and I couldn't make up the "misfortune" you are talking about.
There might have been some drawbacks in your past, but don't let it contaminate your new love interest. It's not her fault. Things don't work out sometimes, I myself had to experience it this week, and it does hurt profoundly. But we can't help but try again, try to find our luck and give someone a fair chance to be the best person in our life. So, I hope you find a way to enjoy this encounter and don't infuse it too much with negative thinking. I wish you the very best!

 

[Freedda]

I am a confused here.

It seems you asked a yes/no question - should you invite this person on a date? Is that right?

But did you consult the i ching before you asked this person out and had a date, and are ypu now relaying how it went, and wondering if we think it matches up with your reading?

Or is your query after the fact, more asking about how the date had gone?

Or something else?



D.

 

[mozzer]

I asked about the opportunity or not to invite out this person, and I received 60.5>19.

Few minutes ago I used the free i ching reading not knowing how it worked, without looking for a response (so no question) by pure chance and came out 42.1.6>8. Same scheme, initial luck, then misfortune. It's a bit disturbing!

 

[mozzer]

I asked about the opportunity or not to invite out this person, and I received 60.5>19.

Few minutes ago I used the free i ching reading not knowing how it worked, without looking for a response (so no question) by pure chance and came out 42.1.6>8. Same scheme, initial luck, then misfortune. It's a bit disturbing!

 

[Freedda]

I asked about the opportunity or not to invite out this person, and I received 60.5>19.

Thanks Mozzer, I get that part. What I'm wondering about is did you ask this question beforehand, and did you then go out on the date with her? What happened and the sequence of things (when they happened) is what is confusing me a bit here.

D.

 

[mozzer]

Thanks, I'm sorry, it's true I asked in advance if it was a good thing to ask this person out, the response seemed positive to me and so I invited her and the evening was just what I told at the beginning. The fact is that the response refers to the future, which in 19 is not positive.

 

[diamanda]

Hi mozzer,
Sorry to say this, but I can see about a thousand red flags in the whole interaction... There's something seriously off about her.

 

[mozzer]

Hi mozzer,
Sorry to say this, but I can see about a thousand red flags in the whole interaction... There's something seriously off about her.

Thank you Diamanda, your comment obviously majes me a little sorry, but it's what I suspect about her too.

 

[Trojina]

Thanks, I'm sorry, it's true I asked in advance if it was a good thing to ask this person out, the response seemed positive to me and so I invited her and the evening was just what I told at the beginning. The fact is that the response refers to the future, which in 19 is not positive.

This is a very good answer, why ever would you think it wasn't. The idea that 19 as the future is 'not positive' is quite bizarre to me.

60.5 shows a very balanced communication, boundaries comfortably kept, it bodes extremely well for conversations, for making agreements and sorting things out.

The relating hexagram is not 'the future' anyway, it's the entire context.

 

[mozzer]

Thanks Trojia, I probably got it wrong to interpret the 19th as an evolution of the relationship that was beginning, which would have encountered difficulties "on the 8 month".
Actually, my doubts emerged already at the end of the evening!
I didn't know this person, but I never thought I would find myself in front of a similar situation, too much everything.

 

[mozzer]

So now everything is clearer: I asked if it was appropriate or not to invite this woman out, and the response said that there would be an interesting dialogue. But soon I realized that this person is not for me, it's not what I'm looking for: he would have so much potential, but I don't like his lifestyle and all his questions in a row from the moment we met seemed to be a speed date.
The response was correctly referred to the only evening in question.
I'm sorry to admit it, but I was wrong again: and as I explained at the beginning, it's more and more difficult to try again.
Love is not really for me.
Thank you all.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[mozzer]

So now everything is clearer: I asked if it was appropriate or not to invite this woman out, and the response said that there would be an interesting dialogue. But soon I realized that this person is not for me, it's not what I'm looking for: she would have so much potential, but I don't like her lifestyle and all her questions in a row from the moment we met seemed to be a speed date.
The response was correctly referred to the only evening in question.

I'm sorry to admit it, but I was wrong again: and as I explained at the beginning, it's more and more difficult to try again.
Love is not really my thing.
Thank you all.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[diamanda]

but I don't like her lifestyle

It sounds like you already knew about her lifestyle, before this meeting. Fancying someone is great, but it's good to also think rationally about how this person could fit in within our own life. 60.5 is about limiting something sweet, so maybe it was a warning to you to not be too sweet with her.

Don't give up on love while you're still breathing. Just because you misjudged this particular situation it doesn't mean there isn't someone more compatible out there for you. Learn from this so as to choose more efficiently in the future.

 

[mandarin_23]

Hi mozzer,
well if you don't like her you don't.
However, when you write - love is not really my thing - well. Sounds a bit judgemental, or there might even be a bitter note. Why don't you just get to know her a bit, you don't need to marry her right away -- 60.5, doesn't it ask for some sweetness?

 

[Freedda]

Mozzer, if I understand this correctly, you asked the Yi about going out with a woman, got 60.5 > 19 as the response. It seems you went on the date, had a lot of sharing, perhaps some awkward or confusing moments as well -- in short, a first date that went fairly well and left the door open to seeing each other again.

But now, afterwards, you've decided that this is not the right person for you. That's fine if it's really how you feel, but if you're basing your decision on what you think the Yi is saying, I'd advise you to think again and reconsider.

Hex. 60 is called Boundaries. The two trigrams are Water above Lake, and to me it is all about setting boundaries: when we need to do that, when we should be a bit more flexible, and when we should just let the waters overflow the banks of the lake.

Line 60.5 reads: 'Sweet limitations. Promising. To continue has merit.' If it were me, I'd take it to mean that now is not the time to set hard and fast rules about what I want and don't want, or be too quick to set boundaries that shut someone else out - especially if that is what I would normally do.

And maybe it means too that it's neither the time to decide that you've met the love of your life (no boundaries), OR, that this person is not someone you could ever get along with (too strong a boundary).

So, here, maybe 60.5 means: 'Hmmm, that was a pretty good first date. We did a lot of sharing, and she seems interested in getting together again - and even if I have some reservations that we might not be a good fit, it's maybe too soon to tell.'

For me, that's a darn good example of a 'sweet limitation.'

As to the related Hex. 19. I offer two cautions:

First, the related hexagram is NOT telling what a future outcome is going to be - at least usually (and I dont' think in this case). Instead, for me it points to an attitude I might take, a 'direction' to consider. For example, if a hexagram is named 'East' that doesn't necessarily mean I will be traveling 2,500 miles east to dip my toes in the Atlantic! But instead maybe in indicates that I should face East in the morning, as the sun comes up over the Cascades. A direction, an attitude, not a destination.

Second, Hex. 19 is related to the 12th month of the Chinese calendar, it is late-winter, early-spring when the waters in the earth begin to thaw and start to flow. It's a time to start to plan and get ready for planting and for what eventually will be the 8th month - when you harvest what you started back in the 12th month!

So, when the Oracle for 19 says: 'Taking charge. The greatest fulfillment rewards persistence. To arrive in the eighth month would be unfortunate' ... for me it doesn't mean, 'Oh no, this is going to end badly!, but instead it means that at the start of a task or situation, or adventure (or a relationship!) you shouldn't get ahead of yourself: that here, just after the first date might not be the time to 'jump ahead' and decide that the relationship is going to end badly or that you have found your soulmate! (and it's seems to be very much in snyc with what 60 is saying as well).

So, yes, you might be right and this is not the right person for you. But you might also be jumping to conclusions based on your own fear and on what you think the Yi is saying, when in fact the Yi is only saying that you should coinsider 'sweet limitations' and that you shouldn't jump ahead to the divorce right after the first date! Maybe you need a second or third date to truly decide? But it's your call.

D.

 

[mozzer]

First of all, thank you, thank you all.
You are so wise and precious!
I should have asked you before the date...!
I will certainly see this person again, and I will try to be lighter, to have no expectations. I wrote earlier that behind the mask of a brilliant woman with an intense social life, even a little arrogant, I perceived a fragile person, with a great emptiness inside, like everyone or almost everyone.
I will try to love her a little, without expecting anything in return: this is never a mistake.
Maybe we'll be friends, who knows?
Thanks again.

 

[diamanda]

I will try to love her a little, without expecting anything in return: this is never a mistake.
Maybe we'll be friends, who knows?

Mozzer, I'm sad to hear you think in this manner. How can it be correct to have zero self-esteem? Why not expect something in return? Except if you belong to the type of people who are happy in a master/slave dynamic, in which case perhaps you will thrive in such a setting.

 

[mozzer]

Besides everything, I must add that 19, with that prediction of such a precise disaster, has always upset me. In 1990, as every year, I asked for a forecast for the whole year: in August my father died.

 

[Freedda]

Mozzer, I'm sad to hear you think in this manner. How can it be correct to have zero self-esteem? Why not expect something in return? Except if you belong to the type of people who are happy in a master/slave dynamic, in which case perhaps you will thrive in such a setting.

I don't think that when someone says they have 'no expectations' that it means they have zero self-esteem, or that there is a master/slave dynamic.

Instead I think it means being open to seeing what the possibilities of a situation or a relationship are, wihout making assumptions. It is a healthy and necessary attitude, just like wanting to be loved is. Or ... at least that's how I would define it. But of course Mezzer may mean something else here - so it's best if I don't hold too firmly to my assumptions and expections either!

D.

 

[mozzer]

Dear Diamanda, let me disagree: try to be nice to this person (who is a colleague, so I will see her again anyway), as to anyone for me is not wrong. And then, as I said, it seems to me that she has so much need. Giving kindness, affection is always positive, in my opinion. Of course if it's reciprocated it's better.

 

[diamanda]

Sure, as you wish. I hope it works out for you.

 

[mandarin_23]

Friendlyness will most probably be answered, and if not, then we usually don't really stay in touch, anyway. Maybe you both have some need - in one way or another - and it doesn't have to turn out to be a relationship. But anyway, it's best to be relaxed! "Sweet measuring", 60.5., a nice reading.

 

[mozzer]

Update:
Saturday we had a great date, I was serene and light-hearted, and we had a great time.
Afterwards I took her home and she immediately wrote to thank me, adding "you make me laugh and feel good".
Everything seems ok, for now!
Before the appointment I asked the 'i ching how
What's the best attitude to take with this woman...?
54.1.6>64.
Not the best answer, i guess...

 

[mozzer]

54>64 anyone?

 

[mandarin_23]

Good to read that you had a great time!
The question you posed before "what is the best atttitude to take with this woman" sounds very distanced, though, to say the least. It is a funny answer - probably saying to "go with the flow". The marrying maiden, a humble person, tactful, maybe one of you two … as this is not a stable relationship, there is no confinement. (Not yet).

 

[diamanda]

What's the best attitude to take with this woman...?
54.1.6 > 64
You're not in a position to influence the situation, it will not continue for long.
And/or do not accept to be second best for her.

 

[mozzer]

Thanks for the answers, even if they do confuse me a little.
Surely in this situation I am in second place at this time: if not exactly after one or more suitors (which is very likely), I come after her job, her friends, her travels, her 1000 activities, as I said at the beginning of the thread.
In this the IC has perfectly photographed the situation, in my opinion.
I'm still not sure about the 64.