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"Modesty is a little weak here as the Gua Ming, even though, ironically, this is the best translation of the word Qian as used in several of the lines. Several of the lines describe what is wrong with our conventional understanding of modesty, especially the disingenuous self-effacement. This understanding is confirmed by the Mawangdui Gua Ming, also Qian, which toadies and sycophants would use to describe themselves as Unworthy. Humility is weaker still, this coming much closer to the subject of 62. Honesty would be a better gloss for the core meaning of the Gua, and "tell it like it is" or "call a spade a spade" a better description. In the Da Xiang many translators drift towards saying the objective is to make things equal, to level things out. This is incorrect. The objective is to know them for what they are, to give a fair assessment. There is in this Gua a little bit of holding back or conservative reluctance to go too far in assessing things. Note that the unbroken line is back of center, suggesting reticence."
This quote is taken from the other thread and in it Hilary also talks of the 'rat' or 'hamster' that inhabits this world, however my thoughts remain on The Greek War Horse so I'm going to leave our rodent friends quietly playing in the corner for now.The basic idea...
- the name of the hexagram in the received text means modesty/ humility/ meekness - emphasising the worth of other people rather than one's own.
So even in the severity of War, and perhaps, especially in the severity ofWar, having the qualities of a 'praus' man filled with 'controlled strength' allows the War Horse to bring mutual gains to the outcome of any battle.Six in the fifth place means:
No boasting of wealth before one's neighbor.
It is favorable to attack with force.
Nothing that would not further.
Modesty is not to be confused with weak good nature that lets things take their own course. When a man holds a responsible position, he must at times resort to energetic measures. In doing so he must not try to make an impression by boasting of his superiority but must make certain of the people around him. The measures taken should be purely objective and in no way personally offensive. Thus modesty manifests itself even in severity.
Hi DavidThis might be describing war horses (or horses in general), or dogs, or herons .... But most strongly for me it describes the qualities of being in relationship with or co-depending upon one another, as a (war) horse might be with its human rider; or a retriever with their hunter, or (perhaps newly-) wedded, wed-wings.
'The wealth of the earth in which a mountain is hidden is not visible to the eye, because the depths are offset by the height of the mountain. Thus high and low complement each other and the result is the plain. Here an effect that it took a long time to achieve, but that in the end seems easy of accomplishment and self-evident, is used as the image of modesty. The superior man does the same thing when he establishes order in the world; he equalizes the extremes that are the source of social discontent and thereby creates just and equable conditions.
A person who is codependent with another is one who has given away their power to this other.
I get that. Mine is not a classic nor psychological definition of 'codependence' - it is more of a gut response, which is why I described it in more detail. It is, in fact, about being 'inter-dependent'.I'll just add that co-dependent is an unhealthy relationship; interdependent is healthy.
Chalk and cheese.
... the word 'co-dependent' - it represents for me an unhealthy relationship; interdependent is healthy.
Yes it is good to have diversity and different ways of saying thing. Remember though however you pronounce 'potato' it remains one and the same thing.What about ash and cheese: "Vegetable ash helps to neutralize the surface pH of the cheese."
Or ... interdependence and ' depending upon others' .... (You say potato, I say potato ....)
Focussing on the word 'meeked', you have picked up here on only a very, very, very small part of what I wrote in my original post. I'm normally in the habit of saying what I mean and not saying what I don't mean. So, I'll invite you to read again the paragraph from which you lifted your quote, and any of the other passages I have written here if you need to. Then I'm certain you'll be informed enough to answer your question for yourself.Are you saying that Greek War Horses were gelded - or castrated - against their will? That certainly seems like making another being - or person - do something against their will - and in direct opposition to their 'true, wild nature'; it makes their 'training' feel like a forced codependence - an actual physical manipulation or mutilation.
There are many different vantage points to look at the meanings of co-dependence, interdependence and now co-existence. My preferred vantage points when it comes to word meanings or usage is a dictionary or thesaurus.There are lots of different ways - and vantage points - from which we can look at co-existence and "co-depending upon" .... My sense is, this is what diviners, shamans, and curanderos (Span. 'healers') do .... and I assume that even some shamans are 'dependent upon' certain plants and chemicals (peyote, psilocybin, acid, DMT, ayahuasca) to achieve their trance-like states.
I'm normally in the habit of saying what I mean and not saying what I don't mean. So, I'll invite you to read again the paragraph from which you lifted your quote, and any of the other passages I have written here if you need to. Then I'm certain you'll be informed enough to answer your question for yourself.
Irfan used this as a great alternative in another thread which is brilliant
"I don't recognize my own ideas in your restatement of them."
With your most recent post (#16) you have kind of dazzled me with your headlights ... so (I) would be grateful if you could ... clearly condense the essence of your meaning here.
Focusing on the word 'meeked'
I'm not familiar with Field's translation so I'm unable to reply here from a place of personal experience.
The Ideal of Hexagram 15 is Hexagram 42 'Augmenting /The Blessing' (aka Increasing)The Ideal gives insights into the potential of the situation and represents the most effective way to think about the entire situation.
So you could say that the most effective way of looking at Hex 15 when you receive it is that it is drawing your attention to the potential that could be unleashed through behaving in positive ways and correcting your shortcomings when you recognise them.The superior person follows the good when he sees it,
And corrects his fault when he finds it. (A Huang)
The shadow site of Hexagram 15 is Hexagram 50 The Vessel.The Shadow gives pointers to a necessary transformative potential that is, for the moment, shadowed and unavailable but will manifest spontaneously if you do not seek it out.
So nestling within any Hexagram 15 reading is a potential for personal transformation; an establishing of a new changed you. This change though manifests spontaneously as a 'will of Heaven' and the more you try to fulfill this change through your own conscious actions, or thoughts or words or behaviours the farther it will move away from you. It seems to be a case of just go about your day to day business and 'Do you know what you?' you might well win the lottery too. This personal transformation is elusive like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and you will only find your treasure if you do not even try looking for it in the first place.The superior person rectifies his position,
And fulfils the will of Heaven. (A Huang)
"Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth" Matthew 5:5
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