Hexagram 33 - The Land of the Pig?

[charly]

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For those interested in Wu Jing Nuan:

Dr. Wu was a Master of TCM, native chinese living in the USA, he had studied ancient chinese characters, as a sample of his original with a touch of humor points of view:

From the jackets:
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Wu Jing-Nuan: «Yi Jing»

Other sources:

A reporter in a 1985 profile in The Washington Post wrote that "there is something about this man.​

You believe him. His smile defuses skepticism. His Chinese slippers make no noises. . . .​

In a city founded on convention, Wu is a soothing reminder that there is another way."​

Source: The Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/12/06/acupuncturist-and-artist-wu-jing-nuan-at-69/7be63ab4-7a02-4406-b628-8c979e26782c/

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All the best,

Charly

 

[charly]

More about the Piglet:

Freeman Crouch : «Chameleon Book»

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Full preview available inGoogle Books:

I Ching

The I Ching (Yijing) is an important text in the canon of world literature. It is also a divination tool familiar to millions of modern users. Books on the I Ching tend to approach it exclusively as one or the other: literary text or oracle. This annotated translation is designed to reconcile a...

books.google.com.ar

All the best,

Charly

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[charly]

Following with Freeman Crouch:

The notes on H.33 ...

All the best,

Charly

 

[charly]

H.33 Freeman Crouch: 遯 dun4, think that the 豚 tun2

The hexagram name Abduction (Piglet), says the translator, is a phonetic susbstitution of 遯 dun4 (retreat, run away, conceal) or of 豚 tun2 (piglet, young pig) for 敦 / 𣀦 dun1 (honest, sincere, thick, dilligent, intimate ...)

I didn't find CAPTIVE RAID or ABDUCTION among its meanings although, of course, 𣀦 is an old compound of 𣀦 dun1 LAMB (victim for sacrifice) + 攴 / 攵 pu1, HAND holding a STICK (hitting, maybe something relative to bone divination).

The first component of 敦 / 𣀦 dun1 is 享 / 𦎫 xiang (enjoy offering, lamb) from building 亯 xiǎng (maybe a shrine?) and 羊 yáng (sheep, goat), appears already as stand alone character in Bone script.

The lower component evolved from LAMB to SON / child / little animal, as can be seen here:

1st. column Bone Script, 2nd. Bronze, 3rd. Small Seal,
4th. and 5th. Later Scripts
Source: Zdic.net
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Traditional variants: 𣀦(older) ,敦 (actual). The first variant closer to the bronze and seal characters.
Source: Hanziyuan.net

Be said that WIFE RAIDERS look plausible indeed, compliant with the sense of INTIMATE. Even More there is a character association 敦倫, dun1lun2 (to strengthen moral ties between people / to have sexual intercourse), meaning maybe COMMUNION (?). But that's another story...

All the best,

Charly

 

[charly]

Minford's H.33 modernist version:

HEXAGRAM 33
D’wen
Piglet​

JUDGMENT

Fortune.
Sacrifice Received.
Profitable Augury In small matters.
​

The graph for the Hexagram Name contains a piglet. The movement of pigs, wild or domesticated, provided common Omens.

As Waley comments, “the ‘lucky pig’ plays an important part in modern New Year observations in Teutonic countries (e.g., Bavaria and Austria), and doubtless elsewhere. The original text beyond doubt concerned Pig-Omens and Pig-Ritual, but has been mutilated beyond possibility of reconstruction. The movements of swine were closely observed by the Chinese. A herd of swine with white trotters crossing a stream is a portent of heavy rain.” This is to be seen in the Book of Songs:

Song 232 «We met swine

With white trotters, A herd of them, Plunging through waves.​

The Moon was caught In a Net.​

Deluges of rain.​

Soldiers fighting east, No time for rest0»​

Waley comments on this song: “The Net, i.e., the Hyades, was connected by the Chinese, as by us, with rain... Rain falling looks like a net cast over the landscape. The characters for ‘net’ and ‘rain’ are in their oldest forms very similar.”

LINES
Six in First Place

Piglet’s Tail. Danger.
A destination derves no purpose.​

Gao Heng mentions the modern practice of removing pigs’ tails to hasten the fattening process.

Six in Second Place

Tether it with thongs of brown oxhide.
No escape.​

The same oxhide occurs in Hexagram 49/1.

Nine in Third Place

Piglet bound.
Pain. danger.
Auspicious for rearing slaves, men and women.​

The piglet is trussed for Sacrifice.

Nine in Fourth Place

Fine Piglet.
Auspicious for a noble man, Trouble for a small man.
​

A gift such as this would be appropriate only for someone in a grand position. In Analects 17.1, Yang Huo, a powerful minister of the state of Lu, sent Confucius a piglet (the exact same word as this Hexagram Name), thereby embarrassing him greatly, because acceptance of such a generous gift trought with it certain social obligations. See Part I, Hexagram XXXVIII / 1.

Line in Fifth Place

Piglet for celebration.
Auspicious augury.​

A pig for Sacrifice at a Triumph, or possibly a gift for a wedding.

Nine in Top Place

Fat piglet.
Profit in all things.
​

An excellent sacrificial victim or gift.

Source: John Minford's I Ching (Yi Jing), The Essential Translation of the Ancient Chinese Oracle and Book of Wisdom.
Available at Google Books:

Minford also speaks of PIGLET in his first, traditional, translation of H.44 «Encounter». See his commentary to 44.1:

...

See Google Books​

Say, the piglet could be metaphoric meaning a promiscuous woman with many, maybe five, lovers or also a leader's own emotions... but that's another story.

All the best,

Charly

 

[fai_35]

Perhaps an English word analogous to this discussion is 'cow' - is it a noun or a verb?
We can have a long-drawn etymological discussion until the cows come home. Even when the cows are home, some would continue to beef about it

 

[charly]

Perhaps an English word analogous to this discussion is 'cow' - is it a noun or a verb?
We can have a long-drawn etymological discussion until the cows come home. Even when the cows are home, some would continue to beef about it

Hi Fai:
Of course, in H.33 there are not only HIDDEN PIGS but also hidden lambs/sheeps/goats and even COWS.

In 33.3 畜xu4 (to rear, to feed, to keep, to gather, to accumulate) can be read as 畜chu4 (cattle, domestic animals).
Say, also COWS.

This line shows a strange parallellism betwen the first and the last clauses: (1)

... between «TYING PIGLETS» (畜xu4: rearing, keeping domestic animals), which could provoke DANGEROUS ENVY, maybe among neighbours, maybe among themselves.

... and «CATTLE, MINISTERS/VASSALS and CONCUBINES» (畜chu4: cattle, domestic animals) that also can be read «GATHERING MINISTERS/VASSALS and CONCUBINES» (畜xu4: rearing, keeping domestic animals).

I believe that, in the hexagram's context, 畜xu4 fits better than 畜chu4, but can be seen COWS hidden there.

The moral of the line could be:
If we rear PIGS must take care that the males do not attack the piglets, if we maintain a BUREAUCRACY or several LOVERS, must beware of JEALOUSY

Scene of Jealousy, Viet painting (2)​

All the best,

Charly

________________________
(1) Assap the line almost literal translation.
(2) Wikipedia Đông Hồ painting
Ch.

 

[charly]

H.33 The LITTLE PIG of Kerson HUANG:

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From the first edition of «I Ching» by Kerson and Rosemary Huang, 1987.​

A preview of a 2014 revised edition: «I Ching: The Oracle» by Kerson Huang is availabe at Google Books​

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About Kerson Huang:

From «Memorial Volume for Kerson Huang», preview available at Google Books

All the best,

​

Charly

 

[fai_35]

Charly,
Many thanks for sharing your fount of information and knowledge, and your scholarly approach to the study of the Yi, a worthy student of the Yi indeed . Your thorough rendition of the third line of 33 has helped me see deeper the various associated ideograms.
Much appreciated,
fai

 

[charly]

Rick Kunst, maybe the first westerner pig after Waley:

33. Dun4 Tun2 遯 ䷠​

33.0 遯 亨 (享) 小 利 貞
dun4 (heng1) xiang3 xiao3 li4 zhen1
treat / small / favorable / determination
Treat. A somewhat favorable determination.

33.1 初六 遯 (豚) 尾 厲 勿 用 有 攸

(dun4) tun2 wei3 li4 wu4 yong4 you3 you1 wang3​

young pig / tail / threatening / don't / use / have / place which / go​

Don't use this in having somewhere to go.​

33.2 六二 執 (縶) 之用黃牛之革。莫之勝說(脫)

zhi2 zhi1 yong4 huang2 niu2 zhi1 ge2 mo4 zhi1 sheng4 (shuo1) tuo1​

tether / it / use / brown / bovine / MOD / rawhide / none / it / conuer / take off​

Tether it with hide of a brown ox. Under no circumstances will it be capable of getting loose.​

33.3 九三 係 遯 (豚) 有 疾 厲 畜 臣 妾 吉

xi4 (dun4) tun2 you3 ji2 li4 chu4/xu4 chen2 qie4 ji2​

tie up / young pig / have / illness / theatening / keep / male bondservant / female bonservant / auspicious​

A tied up young pig: there will be an illness. Threatening. Auspicious for keeping male or females bondservants.​

33.4 九四 好 遯 (豚) 君 子 吉 小 人 否

hao3 (dun4) tun2 jun1 zi3 ji2 xiao3 ren2 pi3​

fine / young pig / noble / auspicious / small / man / bad​

A fine pig: auspicious for a noble, bad for a small man.​

33.5 九五 嘉 遯 (豚) 貞 吉

jia1 (dun4) tun2 zhen1 ji2​

celebration / young pig / determination / auspicious​

A young pig at a celebration: the determination is auspicious.​

33.6 上九 肥 遯 (豚) 无 不 利

fei2 (dun4) tun2 wu2 bu4 li4​

fat / young pig / no / not / favorable​

A fat young pig: there is nothing for which this is unfavourable.​

Quoted from ...
Kunst, Richard Alan: The Original “Yijing”
A Text, Phonetic Transcription, Translation, and Indexes, with Sample Glosses.
PhD dissertation, University of California, Berkeley, 1985.

• Typed replacing pinyin with diacritics by pinyin with numbers.
• Note that, in the lines, character replacements go in brackets, traditional received characters not in brackets.
• Pinyin lines go vice versa: originals in brackets, replacements not.
• Glosses have been inserted after the chinese text and the main meanings in English.

May enjoy it,

Charly

 

[charly]

A modern PIG, Geoffrey Redmond: «The I Ching (Book of Changes): A Critical Translation of the Ancient Text»

Available preview in Google Books
(With a little of luck can see the whole hexagram with its commentaries)

All the best,

Charly

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[charly]

None pig but running away as one:

Available preview in Google Books.

The only english translation of Cheng Yi commentaries:
The Yi River Commentary on the Book of Changes
by Cheng Yi, edited and translated by L. Michael Harrington
Introduction by L. Michael Harrington and Robin R. Wang
Yale University Press, 2019.

See Barbara's (tacrab) review in:
Contemplating the I Ching

All the best,

Charly

 

[charly]

After seeing so many PIGS in TRANSLATION I believe that in the BEGINING was the PIG, or better, it was the SUCKLING PIGLET.

Say 豚 tun2 (suckling piglet, young pig) was in use much earlier than 遯 dun4 (retreat, run away, hide, conceal), that just appeared in SEAL SCRIPT.

But, nobody's perfect, I still believe that with the implicit sense of RUNNING AWAY for GET HIDDEN. Of course, a scared piglet provides a good metaphor for someone who retreats, almost in panic, seeking only to avoid being caught by coming to a secure place.

Remember HOME with its PIG UNDER ROOF.

«The Shuo Wen Jie Zi» says :

[1171]
遯: 逃也。从辵从豚。
dun4: tao2 ye3. cong2 chuo4 cong2 tun2.
RETREAT FLEE [STOP] FROM WALK FROM PIGLET
To retreat is to flee. It comes from to walk and piglet.

[1177]
逐：追也。从辵，从豚省。
zhu2: zhui1 ye3. cong2 chuo4 cong2 tun2 shen3.
PURSUE CHASE_AFTER [STOP] FROM WALK FROM PIGLET SHORT
To pursue is to chase after. It comes from walk and abbreviated piglet. (1)

[1138]
遁：遷也。一曰逃也。从辵盾聲。
dun4: qian1 ye3. yi1 yue1 tao2 ye3. cong2 chuo4 dun4 sheng1
ESCAPE MOVE [STOP]. ONE SAY FLEE [STOP]. FROM WALK SHIELD SOUND
To escape is to move. Some say: to flee. It comes from walk and phonetic shield.
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Source of the «Shuo Wen Jie Zi» chinese texts:

Donald Sturgeon's Chinese Text Project​

and Shuo Wen Jie Zi​

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In short, I believe that is better to mantain 遯dun4 as the title ohf H.33, but with the sense of FLEEING HURRIEDLY SEEKING FOR A SAFE REFUGE, and keeping in mind that there is a hidden suckling piglet, maybe no less important than humans but a metaphor for ourselves, that are those to whom the «Changes» speaks and about what it speaks.
Say, more about common affairs and less about military tactic or strategy.


All the best,

Charly
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(1) The character depicts PIG instead of PIGLET. The Shuo Wen understand it as a short form of piglet, without the component MEAT/MOON.
Ch.

 

[charly]

May you enjoy this:

All the best,

Charly

 

[diamanda]

Amazing thread. There IS a pig, beyond any doubt.
I never thought that the day would come that I'd have to actually type this.

 

[charly]

Amazing thread. There IS a pig, beyond any doubt.
I never thought that the day would come that I'd have to actually type this.

Dear Diamanda:

Did you see that even Tuck got sense from the piglet?
Here some quotes:

Hexagram 33 - The Land of the Pig?

I'm pondering another Karcherism. He names Hex 33 Retiring with the follow on name of Young Pig (Total I Ching). I have traced the character 遯 (dun4) to links with pigs / boar and sacrificial ceremony. Huang mentions the pig and sacrifice in his description of the ideograph and LiSe's...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

I believe hat one can follow RETREAT but realizing that the PIG is there as an image in the chinese name of H.33 which is not a mater of phonetics but of concepts.


Pigs we are.

All the best,
Charly

 

[charly]

Errata:

Here ...

Hexagram 33 - The Land of the Pig?

For those interested in Wu Jing Nuan: Dr. Wu was a Master of TCM, native chinese living in the USA, he had studied ancient chinese characters, as a sample of his original with a touch of humor points of view: From the jackets: Wu Jing-Nuan: «Yi Jing» Other sources: A reporter in a 1985...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

... the footnote should have said HAND instead of MEAT / MOON1) The character depicts PIG instead of PIGLET:

(1) The Shuo Wen understand it as a short form of piglet, without the component HAND.

Ch.

 

[fai_35]

Many thanks Charly for the meticulous detail.
With all the food for thought about the pig, we'd think we should be getting some ham by now. Or should it be hamlet ?

 

[charly]

Many thanks Charly for the meticulous detail.
With all the food for thought about the pig, we'd think we should be getting some ham by now. Or should it be hamlet ?

Thanks Fai:

Maybe we shall get pizza, which means some disorder at home. And a little corruption in the house causes that «something be rotten in the state». Or vice versa.

Was Blofeld who said that PIGS AND FISHES meant «BOYS and GIRLS»?
Here something more about PIGS:

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From this thread:

... Children enjoy like pigs. Little they know about order and discipline. Women sympathize with children and luckily they are fond of talking, if not children should be dumb.

... HOMES need not only BARRIERS but also OPENINGS. And DOORS have both functions, of course, for those that know how to behave with them. And that things are never simple.

Here what happens when a man is in charge of maintaining day to day order in a house...

Source: Giggle-Giggle-Quack in Simon and Schuster's page.
Link: http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Giggle-Giggle-Quack/Doreen-Cronin/9781481465434
...

All the best,

Charly