how do u read hexagrams with 5 changing lines??

[innertruth]

For example, 32.2.3.4.5.6 to 20

Sources contradict each other...
Would this case mean there is a lack of constancy? Since 32 is all changing?

 

[ginnie]

In a case such as this I would use the change operators for guidance. The yang change operator is hexagram 44, Contact. This shows the way into the situation. The yin change operator is 24, Return. This shows the solution, or the way out of the situation.

 

[Tim K]

Depending on the question/answer I try to look at the lines, and very often I get description of the situation and several advises on the matter. 6th line is almost always a warning.
If the lines are really contradictory and don't make sense I try transitional approach.
If neither work - I look only at hexagrams/trigrams.
There is no rule i think, the key is your intuition, it just 'clicks' when you read the important part of the text.


I read it as obstinate persistence on keeping something/doing something your way.

32.4 warns about outdated method/idea.
32.6 warns about obstinacy in general, the whole goal is obsolete.

32.2 and 32.5 are more in tune with 20 - Stop and look around. Are you going the right way?
Is the goal of the journey still important?
Maybe it's time to reconsider, make the ablution and sacrifice?


Key
32.2 → 62 (Small Details), Daniels: Be restrained in your approach.

Current situation + advice
62.3 → 16 (Making Provision), Daniels: Over-confidence makes you careless, risking danger.
16.4 → 2 (Receptive), Richmond: Calm confidence manifests success, being without doubt he gathers friends.

Key
2.5 → 8 (Holding Together), Daniels: Progress comes through modesty and discretion.

Warning
8.6 → 20 (Observing), Crowley: Thy first step missed? Disaster shalt thou see.

 

[diamanda]

In five changing lines, I only take into account the one not changing.

In your example:
32.2.3.4.5.6 to 20

As you say, there is no constancy.
The only constant thing remaining is: deep/submerged continuing, inauspicious.
And even that is under consideration... (20)

 

[sooo]

I read them as "but on the other hand." For instance, this morning I asked about the day in general and received 42.2 and 6. There's no predictions here there is simply a choice, my choice. Which line I choose to follow is up to me. I consciously made a decision to seek line 2 through generosity, and it's as though ten pairs of tortoises could not oppose it, because I made that alteration in my mind to make it so. If I chose the other path it would have been a bummer day, probably one of feeling sorry for myself and wondering why there was no increase, and something might have even struck me from behind - as though the hand of a master hits the back of a Zen student who falls asleep during meditation, or mopes about having to sit still for so long. It changed to 60: delineation, as though to say, now design your day.

Delineation isn't always constructed of straight lines. Like a conversation or constructing a melody, there is order, sequence, feeling, breathing, dynamics and direction, which may be curvy and colorful like a rose. It doesn't always have to look like a game of tic-tac-toe.

 

[diamanda]

There's no predictions here there is simply a choice, my choice. Which line I choose to follow is up to me.

In that case, however, why do you bother with casting?
Simply choose a line or hexagram for the day, whichever suits your mood best.

If I chose the other path it would have been a bummer day

So, people who don't "choose" negative lines, don't have any bummer days?
That is certainly not the case.
The notion that everything is our choice is simply not true.

 

[sooo]

In that case, however, why do you bother with casting?
Simply choose a line or hexagram for the day, whichever suits your mood best.



So, people who don't "choose" negative lines, don't have any bummer days?
That is certainly not the case.
The notion that everything is our choice is simply not true.

First, I think it makes more sense then 'choosing' the line you don't receive as your answer, much less your carved in stone destiny.

Second, I wrote more on possibilities of correct interpretations of lines because I don't think it's as simple as always being "this" or "that" way. I deleted it because I had already gone off a main part of the topic of 5 lines, though I think the principle of my example can remain the same. For example there's the sequential occasions when lines seem to play themselves out from bottom to top. Then there's the positional aspect of each individual line, the role it plays according to its position.

But more than anything, I never forget the role my free will plays in determining my fate, and that those possibilities or choices are typically presented to me in the reading I cast for the occasion.

For me there's no one single way. I stay open to possibilities, but I never omit the choice of changing my state of mind or direction, since I think this is the most important and productive aspect of The Book of Changes.

 

[innertruth]

Thank you all for insight!

My question about a man. Whether he is a womanizer.

 

[innertruth]

About nature of his interaction with women....

 

[diamanda]

Thank you all for insight!
My question about a man. Whether he is a womanizer.

Yes he is. "Constantly digging in/submerged". No constancy otherwise.
So the 20 would probably mean he's taking his pick.
Or, maybe he notices the misfortune this lifestyle brings him and thinks about it.

 

[innertruth]

Thanks diamanda...So he sounds like in a constant search ...
According to you ashteroid, surprisingly he is not. It talks about restriction. And also about obstination. So he is a pursuer yes. Neediness?

 

[diamanda]

For me there's no one single way. I stay open to possibilities, but I never omit the choice of changing my state of mind or direction, since I think this is the most important and productive aspect of The Book of Changes.

I totally agree that there's no single way to view an answer.
I also agree that changing our state of mind/direction can many times affect outcomes.

At the end of the day, it still boils down to having the wisdom to discern
when we can change something, and when it's not in our control to do so.
Either with the I Ching for extra help, or without.

 

[sooo]

I'm with you there!

 

[Tim K]

innertruth, in view of the actual question I would say he easily wins women's hearts.
But that leads to nowhere, his method is inappropriate (32.4 no game in the field).
Persisting in this will lead to trouble (32.6). So I guess he is a womanizer.

The advice Yi gives is to restrain the impulse and review the approach and the goal in general.
Considering that 'womanizing' is not good, then it makes sense. Yi gives advice to him.



found on urban dictionary:

Theres 2 ways of womanizers: cheaters or players.

6 Sure Signs You’re with a womanizer:

1) He rarely includes you in activities with his friends.
2) He only calls or comes by when he wants sex, or something he needs, and leaves mostly right afterward.
3) When you see him, it’s always during the week, or when it’s convenient for him, seldom is you who choose.
4) He won’t call you much after all, or replay your emotional text messages.
5) When you want to discuss his behavior, he will seduced you again and convince you its all about you, in your head, not him.
6) at the beginning he can be proud to show you his home, later on, You would rarely spend the night at his place. He can find many excuses to don't do that.
"he tells me lovely nice things, though he does exactly the same with many other girls, he is a total womanizer"

 

[Trojina]

Does this belong in SR ?

 

[innertruth]

Ashteroid...yes...unfortunately feels so...too smooth talker...and yes i read articles just like you posted its even funny

Trojina, what is SR?

 

[Trojina]

SR is 'shared readings' . You seem to now be asking specific questions about this person so I thought it looked like this was an SR thread.

 

[Trojina]

I don't think you can tell if he is a womaniser or not just from this answer or any answer. You are on dangerous ground IMO when you decide about someone just on the basis of a Yi cast since Yi's answers are primarily for you yourself, for what you do. Even if answers describe elements of others behaviour, which of course they can, you must keep in mind it simply is not enough to go on especially when you cannot be sure the answer isn't advising you not talking about them. One cannot ever really leave oneself out of any answer IMO and as soon as one begins to think answers are all about someone else then I think one is on the way to getting quite lost.

If you asked "what do I need to understand about this person" then it would be a better question IMO although of course you must ask questions that feel natural to you. I think in SR recently you asked 'is x a cynic' or something here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?21539-42-unchanging-how-to-take-it.....it's a question that really boxes in understanding. A more open question might help more.

In asking these kinds of question you decide a quality then ask Yi to either confirm or deny. If it were a law court it wouldn't work would it. I think your questions need more room to manoeuvre so could do to be more open so that you aren't boxing in what Yi can say...which is either according to your question

'no he is not a womaniser'

OR

'yes he is a womaniser'.


You could get a lot more than that with an open question.

 

[diamanda]

It depends on what one wants to find out when casting.

When asking a concrete crisp question like "is he a womaniser", the answer will also be focused.

Whereas if you ask something as general as "what do I need to understand about this person", then you'll end up with dozens of different perspectives, hours of navel gazing, and in the end you'll most probably end up more confused. Because the true/heartfelt question would still be something like "is he a womaniser" or "will we be together".

 

[innertruth]

Yes, my aim was to be specific.
Although I agree with what you say Trojina too. When I asked general questions or open ones about him I couldnt grasp what Yi really meant...It seemed like too much of an interpreting...
Sometimes I ask Should I think he is a womanizer, maybe that is more correct?
Without judgement, as if Yi can you show whether he can be loyal or monogamous...
I am going to try more open but still focused questions..

It kills me sometimes I use Yi for relationship questions too...It is rather distracting from reality....maybe its a part of some compulsion obsession cycle....

Yi is good at being non judgemental...it can respond pointing at fact....but not at subjective emotional stuff....

 

[ginnie]

I find Yi remarkably unwilling to say anything "bad" about the other person. In other words, even if he were a womanizer or a thief or whatever, you would be unlikely to hear that from the I Ching.

 

[diamanda]

@innertruth,

A question like "Should I think he is a womanizer" doesn't make much sense.
Because the issue is not if you think he is, the issue is if he is.
No matter if the yi says "think that yes", or "think that no" - what difference does it make?
The guy will still be (or not be) a womaniser, regardless of your mindset.

@ginnie,

The I Ching contains many references to thieves, murderers, nasty people, etc.
I have found in practice, and with repeated proof, that usually it's lines 23.5 and 27.4 that mean womanisers.

 

[Trojina]

Although I agree with what you say Trojina too. When I asked general questions or open ones about him I couldnt grasp what Yi really meant...It seemed like too much of an interpreting...

But you grasp even less with the question you have here. You still don't know if he is a womaniser or not.
...
Actually I'm sure you will know simply by studying his behaviour rather than using Yi. It really isn't a surveillance device.

 

[diamanda]

@Trojina,
Some people, like you and ginnie for example, believe that the I Ching cannot answer such questions.
Some people, like me for example, believe that it can very well answer such questions.

Since innertruth actually asked this question, she probably believes that the I Ching can answer such questions. Otherwise she wouldn't have bothered asking it.

Of course she doesn't know 100%, from the yi answer, that this is the case.
Nobody can divine with 100% certainty.

But I believe divination answers very many questions with accuracy, so, it's as good a guide as we can get, for things we can't have immediate evidence and facts about. Studying his behaviour, if possible, would of course be the best way to make sure.

 

[Trojina]

Yes I see what you are saying. I hope innertruth will let us know how this plays out.

 

[innertruth]

Ok guys, thank you all very much!
Here is the thing. Due to his behavior I was suspecting he is a womanizer,
like watching his actions...But I wasn't all sure, so that's why I asked Yi to see what it will say...
When I saw 32 with 5 lines changing all I could think of was INCONSTANCY...I also asked about this "womanizer to be" - What advice would you give me about him/with all I cannot see ? - and Got 21 Unchanging..
Now according to this thread here, 21 has always been something that you cannot crack until it's too late.
Something you don't apparently see....So Here was a GREAT hint from Yi...

One time when I asked a general question to Yi about one man: What do I need to know about him?
I got 37 unchanging...He was indeed married...

 

[innertruth]

Sometimes, I prefer not to continue interaction with a man, if I just have a gut feeling or red flags...I had those with him...I preferred to stay out of being too close with him...So I'm sure if not womanizer, he is not a type to be with for a serious relationship...

 

[innertruth]

Studying behavior is good...Actually better than Yi...But when logic and emotion contradict each other...I always need something external ...

 

[heylise]

I think every line is about one aspect of the situation. So contradictory lines are not really contradictory. When you're told that your car got damaged but your bike is fine, it is not contradictory. Your feelings may be a bit conflicted though - anger about the car, happy about the bike.

A negative line 1 and a positive line 4 might mean: don't tackle this thing yet, but make decisions of what you want with it.

 

[ricciao]

I think every line is about one aspect of the situation. So contradictory lines are not really contradictory.

I agree. I would just introduce additionally the time dimension to it. In my experience if you have many changing lines AND if you succeed in being patient you will experience situations in a time line which corresponds to the single changing lines. Because Yi answers always in terms of suggested or criticized behaviour, not of theoretical knowledge. And behaviour is always a process in the time.

Some lines might be not so intensive as others, but usually every line will have the moment where it will describe what (should) happen(s).
Mostly the lines "happen" in the sequence of the hexagram. Only a few time upon thousand answers the sequence of the line fulfilment differed from the sequence of the hexagram (Yi is more an artist than a mathematician).

So when you have many changing lines, be prepared for a nice trip, the first changing line usually being the first step.

The resulting sign is not always the description of the new situation. Often it is simply a modifier of the main sign, a mood, like the tonality in music. In your example 20 Guan seems not to be the result of 32 changing (you will end in an observing mood) but more a hint on how to handle the to and forth of wind and thunder in 32, with cool observation and impressing by your personality.