How the Yi-Ching Actually Works Is Not As You Expected . . . .

[Cypocryphy]

Hello. I'm going to make this brief because it doesn't need to be long to convey my message.

I've been using the Yi-Ching for over a decade now, first traditionally and now mostly with electronic devices. Whether one is superior to the other I cannot say, but I can assuredly speak accurately about using electronic methods that don't necessarily induce a meditative state.

In that context, I will provide my thesis: The Yi-Ching does not necessarily foretell the future nor does it necessarily state the totality of the situation with the primary hexagram with an objective, truthful statement (i.e. hexagrams). What it does do is accurately reflect your mental and emotional state and opinion in regard to the query. Nothing more, nothing less.

An example is needed. If you ask about a relationship (a common question) you will not necessarily acquire the true answer. Instead, the Yi-Ching picks up on your own "auric" impression of the situation. If you ask the question with a positive attitude toward the situation, the Yi-Ching will provide a positive answer in return. If you ask the question while in a state of concern or trepidation, then you will receive the same from the Yi-Ching. It's as if the Yi-Ching operates by assuming that you already know the answer and will reflect this back to the querent.

As a result, it is proper to ask someone who is not emotionally engaged with the situation or for you yourself to disengage through meditation or some other means of relinquishing your emotional and mental state. Ideally, if the question is significant, causing emotional or mental angst in some way, then it is best to have someone who is not associated to the question do the answering on your behalf if you have any hope of achieving an objective answer. Otherwise, you run the risk of getting a wrong answer that merely reflects your own emotions and thoughts, which sometimes is not accurate.

I just wanted to put this out there. I am convinced that this is true. It can also be easily tested if disbelieved because it offers itself as being repeatable in a controlled study.

 

[Liselle]

Hello Cypocryphy, and welcome to Clarity...but oh dear. I pretty much disagree with you, but when you say how convinced you are, we'll wonder whether it's worth even replying.

I think Yi can answer in any and all ways, including the ways you're describing, but also including objective advice and predictions. Of course it's limited by its available vocabulary and things like that - we have to read between the lines and use our imaginations - but it certainly doesn't only answer like a parrot.

An example: I asked Yi about, of all things, buying a particular electric blanket at a particular store. Yi basically said "don't." The reading was 25.1.2.4.6 > 29.

Quoting Hilary's translation:

25.1
"Without entanglement, Going on, good fortune."

25.2
"Not ploughing and reaping, Not weeding cleared fields, And so then it is fruitful to have a direction to go."

25.4
"There can be constancy. No mistake."

25.6
"The affliction of disentangling. No medicinal herbs, there is rejoicing."

Yi was basically saying don't do this, remain unentangled, you don't have to fix this right now - and if you heed all that, you'll avoid making a mistake, and you will have cause to rejoice.

I didn't get it. What on earth could possibly be wrong with buying that blanket, that could be described by those lines and hexagrams? I was expecting any negative response to be along the lines of "it won't work well" or "it's overpriced." These lines, on the other hand, sounded to me, at the time, a lot like, "You don't need a new blanket."

This did not sit well with me. Of course I needed a new blanket. The one I had was clearly worn out electrically - it wasn't giving off enough heat. How could Yi possibly sit there and tell me otherwise?

However, after a lot of arguing - during which Yi stuck to its guns - I gave up and didn't buy the new one. Shortly thereafter, my cat (advance warning of unpleasantness...) vomited all over my existing blanket. There was no recourse but to wash it in the washing machine, which is not the best thing for electric blankets. I would have been really unhappy if I'd had to do that with a brand new one.

Then I asked Yi about buying the new one, and Yi agreed. This was clearly objective advice, a prediction, and Yi being really helpful. Not one iota of Yi "reflecting my mental and emotional state."

Did Yi say "Don't buy one yet because your cat will ruin it?" Obviously not that plainly - it can't. But it clearly told me what to do (more accurately, what not to do).

It can also be easily tested if disbelieved because it offers itself as being repeatable in a controlled study.

That's intriguing - would you mind explaining a bit how you'd go about that?

 

[Liselle]

After reading your post again, I should add that I completely agree emotions can make it difficult, if not impossible, to "hear" Yi's answers. I've had this happen many times. Your point about needing to disengage is an excellent one. Yi has even literally told me that, using 20.6, or 21.6 to say that I'm not capable of hearing anything.

Actually, I'm not sure I know exactly what your point is. Are you saying that Yi won't give objective answers at all:

What it does do is accurately reflect your mental and emotional state and opinion in regard to the query. Nothing more, nothing less.

- or that it will, but we must be objective ourselves in order to get the message:

As a result, it is proper to ask someone who is not emotionally engaged with the situation or for you yourself to disengage through meditation or some other means of relinquishing your emotional and mental state. Ideally, if the question is significant, causing emotional or mental angst in some way, then it is best to have someone who is not associated to the question do the answering on your behalf if you have any hope of achieving an objective answer.

I disagree with the first, as I've explained, but I have mixed opinions about the second. I've gotten answers while upset that I saw were perfectly clear advice once I settled down. But sometimes Yi does stop addressing the issue we're asking about, in favor of addressing our mental state - I think most of us are familiar with that.

 

[svenrus]

Dear Cypocryphy

" If you ask the question with a positive attitude toward the situation, the Yi-Ching will provide a positive answer in return. If you ask...... " (#1)

Positive ? All answers given by I Ching is positive.....

Regardless of any emotional state of mind I find myself.

At least my experience untill now...

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hi Lisa,
if I had asked about an electrical blanket, and got anything with Hex 29 in the answer (danger) I would immediately think of electrocution so, another way of saying "don't do this"!

Cypocrophy: you write
"Ideally, if the question is significant, causing emotional or mental angst in some way, then it is best to have someone who is not associated to the question do the answering on your behalf if you have any hope of achieving an objective answer. Otherwise, you run the risk of getting a wrong answer that merely reflects your own emotions and thoughts, which sometimes is not accurate. "

Now here is where for me your argument falls fully down:
You posit that
1) any answer from the I ching only reflects back querents inner state
2) If I want an objective answer, someone else must ask for me.

What will this answer give me then, except the current inner mental state of that other person???
In other words, I'll see whatever that person thinks/feels about my question?

Not helpful, and much easier in that case just to ask that person outright what they think about my problem.

Your assertion is that this conviction is testable and provable - if that is the case for you, good for you (or rather not, because it makes consulting I Ching basically pointless).
For me I can only say, it has never worked that way. I cannot count the good and valuable insights I have been given by the I ching, and the support I feel it gives me. I am keeping a journal for some time now, and work on answers repeatedly, and over time. So far, I have never had the situation where the I ching simply told me what I knew anyways...

So while you are of course entitled to your opinion and also to express it, I am with Lisa here and have to totally disagree....

best wishes

maui

 

[Liselle]

Positive ? All answers given by I Ching is positive.....

Really? Most of the time when I get 24.6, for example, I'd hardly call it positive. Honest, yes, and constructive (if I've messed up I suppose it's better to know it). Maybe we mean different things by "positive"?

 

[Liselle]

Hi Lisa,
if I had asked about an electrical blanket, and got anything with Hex 29 in the answer (danger) I would immediately think of electrocution so, another way of saying "don't do this"!

I hadn't thought of that...in hindsight I thought 29 in this case was the "repeating" idea, since if I'd bought it and my cat ruined it I'd have to buy another one. I'm still using it (the new one) and there's been no electrocution (not yet, anyway ). Since Yi did endorse buying the new one after the vomiting incident, I think it's probably okay, but maybe I'll ask about it again...

Now here is where for me your argument falls fully down:
You posit that
1) any answer from the I ching only reflects back querents inner state
2) If I want an objective answer, someone else must ask for me.

What will this answer give me then, except the current inner mental state of that other person???
In other words, I'll see whatever that person thinks/feels about my question?

Great point.

 

[svenrus]

Really? Most of the time when I get 24.6, for example, I'd hardly call it positive. Honest, yes, and constructive (if I've messed up I suppose it's better to know it). Maybe we mean different things by "positive"?

24.6 :"Returning and losing the way" (1) don't sound positive... But I find it positive to know beforehand this to be aware of. To example to take into consideration: "Straying from the right path will result in a long-lasting setback. Aggressive action will only deepen your woes." (2) But OK, what is positive ? When I wrote it I was thinking it in the way of knowing, to know versus not knowing, ignorance... Helpfull contra misleading.
1: Richard Rutts translation (Zhouyi, a bronceage document)
2: Kerson Huangs advice (I Ching, Kerson & Rosemary Huang)

 

[Liselle]

But OK, what is positive ? When I wrote it I was thinking it in the way of knowing, to know versus not knowing, ignorance... Helpfull contra misleading.

Yes, okay, I see what you mean. Thanks, Svenrus.

 

[angelatlantis14]

but would it have been a possibility that IF you had bought a new blanket at that time it would have been defective, your cat would have vomited on it, and through the wetness caused a short-circuit which in turn would have led to... ok, forget it, I don't think myself that this would have been the way it played out
your own interpretation makes more sense...

 

[Liselle]

Asking about potential electric blanket hazards is now on my list for Yi! (After all, there's not only electrocution, there's fire...) I don't want to derail this thread, though - but I do think it's a question worth asking.

 

[Cypocryphy]

Well, at least my statements have stimulated some form of discussion. I also can see that I have treaded a bit on your "belief" system and probably your presumptions on how the Yi-Ching actually operates.

In regard to supporting your contention with whether to get a new blanket is almost entirely irrelevant. Are you claiming that your buying a new blanket is comparable to entering/leaving a job or a relationship? If you are, then I really don't know what to say to that other than you must be a lucky person to not have anything serious going on in your life. I can't imagine that the question stimulated a serious emotive response from you.

As to your not understanding what I am saying, it is simply this: if you are emotionally involved in the situation for which you consult the I-Ching, then you are at a prime risk for having your emotions influence the outcome. It really is simple.

I never said that your consulting the I-Ching cannot give an accurate answer. I never said that it will always provide a wrong answer if you are emotionally/mentally intwined with the situation that prompted the consultation. What I did say is that more often than not you will get an incorrect answer to your query.

To Maui–

You said:
Now here is where for me your argument falls fully down:

You posit that
1) any answer from the I ching only reflects back querents inner state
2) If I want an objective answer, someone else must ask for me.

What will this answer give me then, except the current inner mental state of that other person???
In other words, I'll see whatever that person thinks/feels about my question?

Not helpful, and much easier in that case just to ask that person outright what they think about my problem.

You failed to explain how it falls down. I assume this is due to your not understanding what I am stating. For one, if you could ask the person directly (he/she who is the subject of the query) what the situation is, then you would never have to consult the Yi-Ching. Right? You are assuming that all question can be answered by asking the other party what is going on. Here your statement "falls completely down" because there are issues that the other party will not want to answer and, more often than not, will not actually know what the answer is.

Yi-Ching is a means of accessing your own intuition. This is not some magical means by which the cosmos comes down and picks the perfect hexagrams for you. This is a situation that uses your own energy, both mentally and emotionally, to influence the casting of the hexagrams. This is something that can be seen through all of the other various means of divination.

Of course, all of you are free to believe what you wish. I am not here to make you think the same way I do. But I assure you, this is not something worth sneezing at if you intend on using the Yi-Ching for your own personal edification.

You have been informed. Whether you use that information constructively or disregard it is entirely up to you.

 

[Liselle]

To Maui–

You said:
Now here is where for me your argument falls fully down:


You failed to explain how it falls down. I assume this is due to your not understanding what I am stating. For one, if you could ask the person directly (he/she who is the subject of the query) what the situation is, then you would never have to consult the Yi-Ching. Right? You are assuming that all question can be answered by asking the other party what is going on. Here your statement "falls completely down" because there are issues that the other party will not want to answer and, more often than not, will not actually know what the answer is.

Maui will hopefully answer for herself when she sees this, but now I've seen it too, so - actually, Cypocryphy, I agree with what you're saying here. It's just not what I thought you were saying earlier.

I don't think we're always better off talking to the other (involved) party instead of asking Yi, for exactly the reasons you gave. (It's not quite that simplistic, of course - Hilary wrote a lengthy post on the subject, and it's a much-discussed topic on the forum.)

What I thought you originally meant, though, was that it's better to have someone else cast and/or interpret our I Ching readings for us. Is that what you meant?

Yi-Ching is a means of accessing your own intuition. This is not some magical means by which the cosmos comes down and picks the perfect hexagrams for you.

I disagree, and that was the point of my blanket example. It was utterly impossible for "intuition" to tell me that my cat would throw up on my brand new blanket, had I bought one when I intended to. But Yi knew it, and advised me accordingly, for which I was grateful.

And of course I don't think a blanket purchase is comparable to a job or relationship. I never said it was.

 

[angelatlantis14]

To each their own.
I don't feel that any further discussion here would lead to more than diminishing returns and repetitions of the same arguments.
Each of us will, I guess, continue to use the I ching in the way they feel its meant to be used.
best wishes

maui

 

[Cypocryphy]

To each their own.
I don't feel that any further discussion here would lead to more than diminishing returns and repetitions of the same arguments.
Each of us will, I guess, continue to use the I ching in the way they feel its meant to be used.
best wishes

maui

I'm sure my statements have created as schism for you and are hard to digest. That's how it should be. Many ideas and insights that butt-up against one's belief system will cause this type of reaction. It's alright. It's part of the process. In the same way as many struggled to accept the Earth is round, and as many disbelieved it was possible to go to the Moon, you too can continue to feel secure in your disbelief. Until you realize that YOU influence the Yi-ching, you are stuck where you are.

As to diminishing returns, yeah, you're not contributing very much . . .

 

[Tohpol]

Cypocryphy, aside from the fact that this is very far from the first time that someone has come up with the same proclamation and far richer insights shared through the years at Clarity, I don't think your own hypothesis is hard to digest. It's actually quite pedestrian and only partially correct, in my view. But that's by the by.

Permit me to alert you to the fact that it might be your patronizing tone peppered with absolutist assertions that sticks in the maw rather than any beliefs and presumptions being threatened. If you can work on that then folks might warm to you, or at least your propositions.

 

[Liselle]

I was a little absolutist too, unintentionally, in my last post. I think Yi certainly can nudge our intuition - or tell us we know the answer without asking, or give us the answer anyway despite our question being stupid, or predict the future and tell us things we had no way to know - or countless other things.

I have learned many, many things from everyone here, one of which is that you can't put Yi in a box.

 

[stevef]

I remember J Blofeld’s book which included a whole chapter on the most appropriate state of mind to approach divination: “a thoroughly receptive and void state of mind just prior to and during consultation.” I can imagine, in this quiescent state (far from the emotional turmoil of my ordinary family life) of near Buddhahood, constantly receiving hexagram 52, and missing out on being advised on what state of turmoil my enclosed mind was actually reflecting- something of a knowledge I have enjoyed finding out.

Happy new year to all

Steve

 

[Aloft777]

my thesis: The Yi-Ching does not necessarily foretell the future nor does it necessarily state the totality of the situation with the primary hexagram with an objective, truthful statement (i.e. hexagrams). What it does do is accurately reflect your emotional and mental state. Nothing more, nothing less. [/B]

It is apparent to this reader that you did not analyze the words you wrote in your thesis. So, I will do it for you in order for you to understand why you are getting rebuffed.

The last sentence, "Nothing more, nothing less." This is why.
This statement makes the claim that The Only thing the Yi Jing does is reflect ones mental/emotonal state at the time of casting.

Nothing more, nothing less= Only.
This is why you are getting rebuffed by people with comparable experience. If you mean something else, ammend your thesis and make it clear.

If you do indeed mean Yi ONLY mirrors ones emotions,
Then stick with that, unless it is proven wrong to you, by your own future consultations. But either way, you would be well served by clarifying your position and not taking a critique of an argument personally, which is what radiates from your subsequent posts.

 

[stevef]

Yes, it is possible to qualify the actual manner in which Cypocryphy stated his or her thesis, but Cypocryphy made his intention clear by maintaining that in a state of emotionless, meditative repose (or by someone else throwing it) a more objective, accurate throw could be achieved. I tried to make light of the thesis, as stated, but not, as I think, intended, by maintaining that if an emotional state of mind always preceded a consultation then quietude would precede a quiescent result. Moreover, I think if Cypocryphy's thesis is written to emphasize that one’s emotional state, in many if not in most cases, conditions an outcome, then we have an important way of looking at the I Ching- more as a book of wisdom than divination. After all, how many of us know ourselves well enough to know what emotional state we are in. The getting of wisdom, knowing oneself can be, indeed, knowing at that instant I am acting say marrying maidenly, arrogantly or youthfully foolishly. Over the years one can learn to recognise a state of mind without asking the Yi and desist immediately before one falls into a deeper danger. Call it intuition, but developed by using a powerful tool. Cypocryphy's thesis is worthwhile considering more deeply.
Nevertheless, though, I would like to point out that such an anthropomorphically centred view of the I Ching is not how I view the Yi in its entirety. For the more mystically, theistically minded, the notion that there is a higher consciousness being involved and there is, in a sense, a prayer being answered will make it easier to accept epiphany, clarity and revelation into human consciousness no matter what its emotional disposition. The wisdom, clarity herein would be to recognise the instance this occurred apart from the answer that was merely reflecting one’s emotional state- discernment and discrimination.

 

[rosada]

I think hexagram 2 has something to say about this.

2. The superior man with breath of character carries the outer world.

That is, by the wideness of our experience we recognize patterns and cycles. If we have not had the experience we cannot recognize the pattern.

When we consult the I Ching we can only perceive in it's answers what we can relate to. It is not that the I Ching is only a reflection of our inner state - it is that we can only perceive that which is a reflection.

I think our hope is that by study and practice, the I Ching will perfect our inner state and widen our awareness and thus we will be able to "carry the outer world," that is, be able to know and understand inwardly all that is going on outwardly.

 

[rosada]

I do think it's a worthwhile study to try to discern if there is an optimal state for receiving insightful answers. That is, does one get a clearer responses if you consult the I Ching when you are calm and aloof or when the topic is something you care passionately about? Does it make a difference if the question is hypothetical (Will I ever find true love?) or something you intend to act on (How would it be for me to go out with Fred this weekend?)?
Do some people get clearer answers than others? If someone else consults for you what difference does that make? Endless...

 

[svenrus]

I think this has been answered many years ago, namely in the Ten Wings. Below a quotation from James Legges book where I've underlined in red where I find the issue

" 53. The Yi is a book which should not be let slip from the mind. Its method (of teaching) is marked by the frequent changing (of its lines). They change and move without staying (in one place), flowing about into any one of the six places of the hexagram. They ascend and descend, ever inconstant. The strong and the weak lines change places, so that an invariable and compendious rule cannot be derived from them;—it must vary as their changes indicate.
54. The goings forth and comings in (of the lines) are according to rule and measure. (People) learn from them in external and internal affairs to stand in awe.
55. (The book), moreover, makes plain the nature of anxieties and calamities, and the causes of them. Though (its students) have neither master nor guardian, it is as if their parents drew near to them.
56. Beginning with taking note of its explanations, we reason out the principles to which they point. We thus find out that it does supply a constant and standard rule. But if there be not the Proper men (to carry this out), the course cannot be pursued without them. " (1)


(1) James Legge, The I Ching, Appendix 3 section II, Chapter 8, 53-56 Here

 

[angelatlantis14]

HI Rosada,

I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment

"When we consult the I Ching we can only perceive in it's answers what we can relate to. It is not that the I Ching is only a reflection of our inner state - it is that we can only perceive that which is a reflection."

This is true, and reminds me of the uncertainty principle of physics - there is a two-way communication between querent and answer. That in my mind is why it is important to keep a journal, keep going back to recieved answers and give the answer time to develop its true meaning. You are working on the answer, but the insights of the answer are also working on you.

Svenrus:
Thanks for giving that quotation from Legge (a book I have not read yet.)
What most resonated with me was

"56. Beginning with taking note of its explanations, we reason out the principles to which they point. We thus find out that it does supply a constant and standard rule. But if there be not the Proper men (to carry this out), the course cannot be pursued without them."

That too, points in the same direction: If you do not actually work with your answer and do something about the question you have asked, well then the best advice is not really worth much

On a personal note, I have never found the usefulness of the I ching answer to be particularly influenced by my state of mind. I think it is clear to everyone, even the I ching that when you ask in a difficult situation, about matters that deeply trouble you, you will never be in a truly calm inner state. I ching, I think, makes allowances for that
The important point in my mind is that you ask with a genuine desire to know, and with a genuine intention to respect and honor the answer.

best wishes

maui

 

[butterfly spider]

Rosada - I have been thinking if your posting. This is spot on with regards interpretation.

My grandmothers neighbour used to read tea leaves. She was unable to read, had left school at 12 to go into domestic service and had lived in the same area all her life. I thought of her as I read your posting. I thought of her too as she used to make money from mending men's underpants and trousers. I found some old elastic packaging last week - I took a picture that I could share if I knew how. Just the thought...

I digress. Her interpretations of the tea leaves were so accurate that local neighbours were almost worried about seeing her. The interpretations were simple and helpful - using the language she knew. She was very old when I had my t leaves read - I was 14. She told me that she saw lots of houses in my life and that I should never do anything just for money. I am sure that she saw lots if things but was a woman if few words so her interpretation was just that.

With the I Ching I do feel it is something we carry with us - if that is what we want to do. Our interpretations of the castings are based on many individual characteristics. I just get a sense if things - but I am in awe of people on this site who can put their thoughts across so eloquently and succinctly (Topal is a star here - I love reading his posts)

I did have my astrological chart done about 20 years ago. Very detailed (expensive) full of terribly good suggestions and character analysis. It didn't really say anything to me. So my moon is in Pisces and Virgo is ascending ... I am not able to use this information personally the charts the maths etc dont work. The short t leaves was more helpful.

When you cast and get such a resonating response that you feel as if you are being spoken to personally - It makes me smile. Like a distant friend who you think about send warm wishes and thoughts in your heart.
I really do not know how it works - but the more you invest in it the more you will gain.

I have not read all this thread - but have time travelling just to post as I have signal ...
X

 

[butterfly spider]

Just one thing I forgot to say about my Nans neighbour. I asked her why she used t leaves.

I like tea - she said

 

[Tim K]

Having read this thought provoking thread I did a cast with question
What is ideal state for divination? 45.7 → 26
Of course!

45, Legge:
In (the state denoted by) [this hexagram], the king will repair to his ancestral temple.
It will be advantageous (also) to meet with the great man;
and then there will be progress and success, though the advantage must come through firm correctness.
The use of great victims will conduce to good fortune;
and in whatever direction movement is made, it will be advantageous.

45.1 → 17 (Accepting Guidance), Wilhelm:
If you are sincere, but not to the end, there will sometimes be confusion, sometimes gathering together.
If you call out, then after one grasp of the hand you can laugh again.
Regret not. Going is without blame.

Be sincere, hold the question firm in the mind and there will be a reply from a great man.
The mood should be unassuming, egoless, like when performing sacred ritual of sacrifice.
Acceptance of all aspects (inner psyche and also of the answer itself) will provide the clearest guidance.
h26 can play a role of contrast of holding up resources neatly packed in a huge store, divided, unmoving, without life.
And the text provides a clue about ego-less state,

26, Legge:
Under the conditions [of this hexagram] it will be advantageous to be firm and correct.
(If its subject do not seek to) enjoy his revenues in his own family (without taking service at court), there will be good fortune.
It will be advantageous for him to cross the great stream.
Forget your own goals and desires, be open, be ready to serve others, the higher will of the universe, be ready to accept any course of action/response.

Personally I've found it best to meditate, even if only for 1 minute, before asking Yi. It really helps to 'widen' the inner sight, to open the gates for unexpected guests so to say. It removes all preconceptions about what an answer should be. After this I usually get spot-on answers that I understand within 5 seconds of reading whatever catches my eye. Can be a position of line in the hex's drawing, can be line's text, can be hex's title.

 

[Trojina]

The thing to bear in mind is Yi is not a machine so therefore there are no 'optimal conditions for operation'. To ask this is like asking 'is there an optimal condition for talking to my grandma ?'.

Grandma will talk to you when you are mad,
when you are bad,
when you are calm,
when you are sad..

hey that's a poem.

There is no need to try to induce states of calm before talking to Yi anymore than there is for talking to your Grandma. You might speak to her when angry, not hear her, go away, think about what she said and then understand. That happens a lot with Yi but it doesn't mean one has to cultivate any kind of saintly calm to consult.

As soon as people start speaking of Yi as a machine they can operate and decide 'optimal conditions' for they are lost IMO. It's a living energy, you can't outwit it by manipulating your mood to what you think it might like.

As for others doing casts for you as the original poster seemed to think was the only way to get 'objective' results. Hmm well yes I could ask a stranger to go and tell my Grandma my problems and then come back to me and tell me her advice but would be the point of that ? The message Grandma gives is to me. She can hear me just as well when I'm upset as when I'm peaceful. What's more she can show compassion when I'm upset and she call me a twat when she thinks I'm being silly. The whole conversation is between us, a relationship.

My own experience is the exact opposite of the original poster. Some of my clearest answers have come when in distressed or excited states of mind. In such states of mind one is very intent, open, one can take the message in very deeply and intensely. What he said was simply not true that Yi only reflects states of mind. At times of course it does, it can act as a mirror. But there are many other times it gives one the exact opposite of one's mood or what one was expecting as an answer. I've known very peaceful answers come in times of turbulence and vice versa.

I think the problem of consulting Yi for others is one will invariably get answers for oneself not for them. I actually find it is better to offer interpretations for those at a distance who have consulted for themselves, than to consult for someone in the same room. I suppose one can consult for others but I think it is far better they consult for themselves. Again this comes back to Yi not being a 'device' that can be operated but a living energy.

I wrote about Yi as not being a fork lift truck before but now the image that comes to mind is those things at fairs and so on where you put the money in and a claw comes down and picks up a toy or something. Well Yi isn't one of those either and of course 'how it really works' can never be studied objectively since the mystery remains between the subjectivity of the querent and the Oracle.

Having read this thought provoking thread I did a cast with question
What is ideal state for divination? 45.7 → 26
Of course!

Oh I'd see this as invest your whole self, be present, bring all that you have to the divining process (45) and then hold the answer, embrace it fully, imbibe it (26)

I suppose one state of mind that isn't much use for divining is not really paying attention, not investing your attention in what you are asking. Even then it still 'works' sometimes I find.

 

[angelatlantis14]

what a wonderful and interesting thread this has turned out to become...
did not expect this at first

 

[svenrus]

A picture concerning I Chingconsulting and emotional feelings I turned around in my head thinking about this threat:

If You enter a room with temperature 0 degree (whatever) from a field with minus 20 degree You'll dress off Your heavy winterclosing feeling comfortable, Nice ! If entering the same room coming from the livingroom with plus 20 degree You'll take on Your heavy winterclosing feeling "Brrrrrrr" freezing.
If You enter I Ching (0 degrees) coming from great trouble and fear (minus 20 degree) You'll open up (undress Your heavy winterclosing) and feel thankful for the advice. If entering I Ching from a moment of safety and pleasure (plus 20 degree) You'll be guarded (take on Your heavy winterclosing) and thinking "Could be...", but it really doesn't matter....