Is there an hexagram for "illusion"?

[donato]

I-Ching should contain all the possible situations that a human being may find herself/himself in, do you know a specific hexagram which conveys the idea of illusion, or of being caught in illusion?
Thanks a lot for your help,
Donato

 

[Trojina]

I think hexagram 16 can signify illusion as in it deals with creating energy and enthusiasm by creating pictures in the mind..sometimes this leads to manifested vision other times its just illusion as in 16.6 especially, hard to drop as its so compelling but once laid to rest its okay

But i think there could be elements of illusion found in many hexagrams..after all there is more than one kind of illusion. I find hexagram 4 can also refer to illusion esp line 4, stubborn illusion..illusion you can't or won't even see through at all.. 21.6 may refer to an illusion of a kind. many times people get 21.6 and still don't have the faintest inkling it is them themselves who aren't hearing, their self delusion is so strong

 

[donato]

To troian

Hello Troian,

thank you for your contribution. Well, your answer is interesting. you are right, sometimes enthusiasm can lead to illusion and surely 16.6 has this meaning. But I've never got that line! you see my query was prompted by a doubt I had, that is: may be I-Ching is warning me that the direction I took in life is an illusion, that I'm caught in illusion and I'm not realizing it. But it seems that maybe I'm not understanding its warnings. So I thought to reverse the question: is there an hexagram for illusion?
If there is one which has this precise meaning I guess I should have obtained it once or more times. I mean I-Ching is always very keen on giving the proper advice and if I am caught in a illusion "he" surely must have hinted at it, don't you think so? So, if I never got that kind of hexagram in my answers I may be sure that I'm not caugt in a illusion after all. Do you think my line of reasoning has sense?
I remember having got 16 once, but only with a positive meaning and line. So I don't think that is the case.
anyway I'll try to look for that answer in my note-book and see what come out of it.
Thank you again,
Donato

 

[Trojina]

Hello Troian,

thank you for your contribution. Well, your answer is interesting. you are right, sometimes enthusiasm can lead to illusion and surely 16.6 has this meaning. But I've never got that line! you see my query was prompted by a doubt I had, that is: may be I-Ching is warning me that the direction I took in life is an illusion, that I'm caught in illusion and I'm not realizing it. But it seems that maybe I'm not understanding its warnings. So I thought to reverse the question: is there an hexagram for illusion?
If there is one which has this precise meaning I guess I should have obtained it once or more times. I mean I-Ching is always very keen on giving the proper advice and if I am caught in a illusion "he" surely must have hinted at it, don't you think so? So, if I never got that kind of hexagram in my answers I may be sure that I'm not caugt in a illusion after all. Do you think my line of reasoning has sense?
I remember having got 16 once, but only with a positive meaning and line. So I don't think that is the case.
anyway I'll try to look for that answer in my note-book and see what come out of it.
Thank you again,
Donato

No I don't think your line of reasoning has sense because hexagrams can have all sorts of meanings according to the context of your question...sounds like you are trying to pin something down by a process of elimination. This would be like me saying for example, 'if i haven't had 33, the hexgram of withdrawal, then i don't need to withdraw from this situation' whereas withdrawal can be implied in all kinds of ways from other answers..its just not the kind of withdrawal 33 describes

I think it would be more fruitful to ask the Yi directly whether you have been misguided in your pursuit of your direction.

Generally though if its a direction you have pursued its already not an illusion..if you get my drift...perhaps you mean were you misguided to pursue it ? well again i tend to think all we do is experimental, you experimented with a certain direction...if it isn't what you thought doesn't mean you were deluded... i don't know but anyway i think its more useful to ask directly about this direction you took . Perhaps questions along the lines of 'where does this take me' etc etc

I guess sometimes i do do a sort of process of elimination if i feel stuck like the other day i got 19.4.6 about whether someone was going to approach me..i couldn't bring myself to take that as a yes so i decided it definately wasn't a no lol...for some reason i find 'not a no' easier to process than a 'yes'..

 

[miakoda]

Donato:

There's also:

24.6

‘Deluded return, pitfall. There is calamity and blunder.
Using this to mobilise the armies: in the end there is great defeat.
For your state’s leaders, disaster.
For ten years, incapable of marching out.’

-- Hilary's translation.

However, I agree with Trojan's wise words.

Best,

Miakoda

 

[donato]

To Troian

Hello Troian,

Thanks again for your valuable support.

“sounds like you are trying to pin something down by a process of elimination.”

Just So! And it seems I-Ching is eluding me!

“ I think it would be more fruitful to ask the Yi directly whether you have been misguided in your pursuit of your direction.”

Well, I’ve done it more than once. I asked something like: where is leading me the direction I took? Once I got N° 40 – no lines – so I took it as a positive answers (actually I was hoping to get rid of a difficult situation), but – alas – liberation didn’t come… I repeated the same question and got a different answer… so that made me think that perhaps I had not understood the first answer.
What if liberation meant “get rid of the idea you have”?

“No I don't think your line of reasoning has sense because hexagrams can have all sorts of meanings according to the context of your question..”

Yes, of course, still if the direction I choose (or we may say the line of action) is an illusion, i.e. doesn’t lead anywhere, I think I-Ching should have told me in a way or another…
Actually I have the sensation that possibly I may be caught in a sort of wrong idea about what is useful to do.

“well again i tend to think all we do is experimental, you experimented with a certain direction...if it isn't what you thought doesn't mean you were deluded...”

Well… if that line of action didn’t bring the result I hoped for it could be wrong. (Or may be the times are not mature) I want to know if it’s advisable to stick to it (or to continue in that direction) or whether it’s better to drop it altogether.
Can you think of a proper question to ask?

D.

 

[Trojina]

Hello Troian,

Thanks again for your valuable support.

“sounds like you are trying to pin something down by a process of elimination.”

Just So! And it seems I-Ching is eluding me!

“ I think it would be more fruitful to ask the Yi directly whether you have been misguided in your pursuit of your direction.”

Well, I’ve done it more than once. I asked something like: where is leading me the direction I took? Once I got N° 40 – no lines – so I took it as a positive answers (actually I was hoping to get rid of a difficult situation), but – alas – liberation didn’t come… I repeated the same question and got a different answer… so that made me think that perhaps I had not understood the first answer.
What if liberation meant “get rid of the idea you have”?

“No I don't think your line of reasoning has sense because hexagrams can have all sorts of meanings according to the context of your question..”

Yes, of course, still if the direction I choose (or we may say the line of action) is an illusion, i.e. doesn’t lead anywhere, I think I-Ching should have told me in a way or another…
Actually I have the sensation that possibly I may be caught in a sort of wrong idea about what is useful to do.

“well again i tend to think all we do is experimental, you experimented with a certain direction...if it isn't what you thought doesn't mean you were deluded...”

Well… if that line of action didn’t bring the result I hoped for it could be wrong. (Or may be the times are not mature) I want to know if it’s advisable to stick to it (or to continue in that direction) or whether it’s better to drop it altogether.
Can you think of a proper question to ask?

D.

if you asked 'where is this leading me' and got hex 40 unchanging it kind of suggests you make a decision whether to release the issue completely and move on or if you think there is a point to it to get whatever it is underway..either way its not a time for getting stuck with it, seems you have freedom of movement. As you have freewill of course ultimately its is your decision if something is worthwhile to you or not...you can do that by writing a list of pros and cons...Infact the very question you asked underlined is returned back to you in 40 unchanging IMO..it isn't telling you it says you decide..something like 'if there is a direction to pursue don't delay, if there is none then return to usual conditions'.

The problem is then the Yi says its your decision but you don't know which is the right decision then I guess it may help to ask about each option in turn such as "what if i continue ?" and "what if i leave this behind ?". But its best you ask questions how you are comfortable with them, sometimes i don't have questions at all just think about hte situation while i am throwing the coins.

So i don't think the Yi is eluding you I think it indicates here that its your choice, just that, theres no 'ought' here so how can it say what you ought to do...so maybe first you have to accept this thing is all yours then decide what you want to do by casting about the options if you like.

You are being very elusive about the topic so it feels like I'm talking to you in a very dark room...clearly it must be a very private matter but we at Clarity are not easily shocked you know

 

[donato]

To Troian

“So i don't think the Yi is eluding you I think it indicates here that its your choice, just that, theres no 'ought' here so how can it say what you ought to do...so maybe first you have to accept this thing is all yours then decide what you want to do by casting about the options if you like.”

That changes the whole picture, and yes, it may have some sense. I hadn’t thought the problem could be defined in that way… I’ll have to reconsider the whole matter… good!
And anyway that means that I was right in supposing I had misunderstood the first I-Ching answer…

“You are being very elusive about the topic so it feels like I'm talking to you in a very dark room...clearly it must be a very private matter but we at Clarity are not easily shocked you know.”

Oh, you have been helpful enough and I’m grateful of your kindness, so I don’t think there is any need to go deeper.

Thanks again,
Donato

 

[bradford]

22 concerns illusion the most directly, specifically as glamor and nearsightedness
20 shows us how there are different sights from different points of view
04 of course can be stuck in illusion until outgrowing it
and 36 makes use of illusion, as misdirection and the cloak of cloak and dagger

 

[Sparhawk]

On the other hand, there are a lot of illusions that fit into any hexagram...

 

[bamboo]

Donato,
The closest I can come to a response from the Yi that says "wake up, you're not paying attention" is 21.6.
And 36 is , to me, a suggestion that there is more than meets the eye.
I also think 55 has a connotation of illusion, because what you need to see may be eclipsed at the moment of questioning. 55.6 certainly has an air of being deluded, locked away, and too full of oneself to see the truth.
And 40 could very well mean "Get out of that situation- or way of thinking- as soon as you can" ...

 

[donato]

To Bradford

Hello Bradford,

I did received 22 a couple of times but not concerning that matter. But it’s interesting to consider glamour as a form of illusion, of stopping at face value…

I don’t see the connection between 20 and illusion, unless you mean to state that through 20 you can dispel illusion – I think I got once or twice that kind of advice.

The most interesting, at least to me, is 36, because when you are caught in illusion you are blind to truth. Actually illusion is like a curtain (or a cloak) that prevents us from seeing the light.

Anyway as troian said: “hexagrams can have all sorts of meanings according to the context of your question” and I’ll have to reconsider the whole matter, going to see all my previous questions and the answers I got and see if I can make sense of them.

Another way is to reformulate the question in a different matter and see what I-ching has to say NOW. I have the feeling that it’s no use to delve into the past, every day brings a new situation and so the old answers could not be valid anymore…

Thank you for your contribution,
Donato

 

[donato]

To Bamboo

Hello Bamboo,

I see now you entered into court!
Well I thought this discussion was already exhausted but you are proposing new and useful ideas.
I stumbled in all the hexagrams you quote, at various times, but never with those lines. Any way I agree with you about the meaning of them all. Very interesting to see 55 as an incapacity to see something we need to know, and what you say about 40 is something I had suspected myself.
Thank you for your contribution,
Donato

 

[donato]

To Miakoda

Hello Miakoda

Sorry for replying late...
Actually I received "return" many times, but never with that line. Most of the time I got it with no line at all, so I always found it very hard to understand what he was referring to: "come back to your previous choice or behvior", or "a better time is returning so don't worry". But of course it has no sense to discuss its meaning unless we can refer it to a specific question.
Thanks,
Donato

 

[bradford]

I don’t see the connection between 20 and illusion, unless you mean to state that through 20 you can dispel illusion – I think I got once or twice that kind of advice.

What you see in 20 depends on your perspective or point of view.
Magicians make use of this in creating their illusions.

The most interesting, at least to me, is 36, because when you are caught in illusion you are blind to truth. Actually illusion is like a curtain (or a cloak) that prevents us from seeing the light.

In 36 the people are taking action undercover. The noble ones are not suffering.
They are using the darkness and misdirection. Like faking a limp in line one to keep from looking strong.

 

[dobro p]

After you've narrowed it down to the hexagrams and lines that best address illusion, consider this: pretty much everyone is on the illusion scale somewhere, and most of us are at the end of the scale where illusion is operative and powerful - most of us are victims of a hefty dose of illusion, is what I'm saying, and no matter what hex or line you draw, you can count on illusion being present. So if the Yi points out illusion as being a significant part of the situation, then you can bet it's 'illusion relatively easily seen'. The best sort of illusion, actually.

 

[meng]

Donata,

My immediate response to your initial question was hex. 16, but I saw Trojan had already offered the same response. 16 is all the fuss, which after it settles may show nothing at all to fuss about. But in other cases there may be a great deal to get all riled up about. There is no right, wrong, good, bad in 16; it's all based on context. That makes the structure subject to morphing: enhancing all the more the illusions created by our exaggerated state of mind and resulting overstimulated senses. In other words, "you're tripping." However, I don't mean to undermine the importance of 16, especially in trans formative matters.

I can see 22 as illusion, but only regarding it's most superficial aspects, which, imo, do not include 22's elegance: the aura of life. 22 is not a trite hexagram, it's as essential as all the others.