Is there any hope for us? "3 2.3.4 to 43"

[GreenHazel]

Dear all,

this is my first post here.
My last cast was mentioning to seek helpers, and I thought to ask for a hand to you.
Please forgive me if it will be long but I’d like to give some context just this one time.

A guy arrived in my life out of nowhere.
From the very moment we laid eyes on each other we were both completely lost for each other. Like, completely, and in the same way; one of those things that really, rarely happens.
At least it never happened to me before. Not so completely, and from the very start.

The intensity of energy that I feel when we are around each other is just inexplicable and the series of synchronicities that brought us together is just unreal.

Of course, he’s not free. He lives with his partner, and has a kid.
For this reason, I told him from day one that I didn’t want to start a relationship with him.

We have struggled for 2 months to be just friends but the attraction (physical, emotional, mental) is so strong to leave both of us feeling breathless and extremely miserable. Me, because I feel my boundaries getting weaker and weaker, him, as he says that the whole being friends thing is hypocritical.

I tried to be as honest as I could with myself, and tried to detach many times, but either way it just seemed wrong; having an affair, or losing the connection all together.
I have felt pressured, scared, angry with the Universe, and with him, as they were both putting me in a corner, at least it felt so.
I don’t like the dishonesty. I don’t like the fact that he expresses his frustration in an angry way sometimes. I don’t like the fact that he had other affairs.
I like the fact that he’s been honest on everything (at least with me). I like the fact that he did the impossible for 2 months for seeing me without any possible sexual “reward”.

All these mixed feelings brought me into a deep confusion and a month ago I decided to ask the IC:

“Is this man seriously interested in me?”
And I got 61.3.4.6 leading to 43

I interpreted Inner Truth as belonging to both of us and Breakthrough as deciding to give him a fair chance to prove his feelings without keeping him at arm length: this, just emotionally, as I still refused to get physical with him. Things improved immediately and we felt much closer and we were both hopeful that something good could come out for us eventually.

Then, I lost my strength. I got more attached. And I got scared. And started feeling insecure about everything. My boundaries were crumbling, still I tried to preserve the illusion that we could keep this “emotional” middle way going. And we messed up everything.
I started giving very blurred mixed signals, he got confused, and then felt rejected, and then got angry. I felt ashamed, embarrassed of myself, angry with him for being angry with me.
The opposite of the unconditional love I thought we could have / give one another, without the expectations that traditional relationships sometimes have.
We had a last discussion at the phone, where I was just plainly sad, feeling that we had failed completely, and he was feeling rejected and angry, and that was it. We didn’t call each other anymore. This was 3 weeks ago.

I thought I would feel some relief. I just feel unresolved. I do miss him, a lot.
I asked the IC again.

“Is he my one?”
I got 3 2.3.4 leading again to 43

I think I understand Hexagram 3, which sounds difficult, but inspiring nevertheless, and the changing lines pretty well.
3.2 reads quite amazingly literal to me!

3.3 I can clearly see myself lost in that wood trying an impossible experiment without any experience, and him, hunting the deer without knowing where it was taking him.
3.4 gives me hope, and the strength to think … perhaps more time is needed for us, in this life, or the next one…

But I’m baffled by 43. Why again? Did I misinterpret it the last time?
I feel like I should do nothing now. I feel that he needs time to sort out his life, and I need time to feel that I can be more confident next time in a relationship, and stronger.

What do you think? Is there any hope for us?
Whatever your thoughts, I will be truly grateful.
Thank you so much for reading this (very) long post.

 

[Freedda]

You seem to have shared with us two different questions with the same answer of 3.2.3.4 > 43. What was your actual question? Thanks, d.

 

[foxx777]

“Is he my one?”
I got 3 2.3.4 leading again to 43

I think I understand Hexagram 3, which sounds difficult, but inspiring nevertheless, and the changing lines pretty well.
3.2 reads quite amazingly literal to me!

3.3 I can clearly see myself lost in that wood trying an impossible experiment without any experience, and him, hunting the deer without knowing where it was taking him.
3.4 gives me hope, and the strength to think … perhaps more time is needed for us, in this life, or the next one…

But I’m baffled by 43. Why again? Did I misinterpret it the last time?
I feel like I should do nothing now. I feel that he needs time to sort out his life, and I need time to feel that I can be more confident next time in a relationship, and stronger.

What do you think? Is there any hope for us?
Whatever your thoughts, I will be truly grateful.
Thank you so much for reading this (very) long post.

First, 43 is not signifying the future; it’s merely the background: Decision, Breakthrough, Resolution.

*You say he has a partner and a child, but his involvement with you indicates that he’s not committed to the partner. People with spouses and partners and kids break up all the time. If he can do this then you can have a full love relationship with him and perhaps a child of your own:

Hexagram 3 line 4:

Legge: The fourth line, magnetic, shows its subject as a lady, the horses of whose chariot appear in retreat. She seeks, however, the help of him who seeks her to be his wife. Advance will be fortunate; all will turn out advantageously.

Wilhelm/Baynes: Horse and wagon part. Strive for union. To go brings good fortune. Everything acts to further.

Blofeld: Hesitating like a man trotting to and fro, he waits for marriage. Thenceforth, good fortune will prevail and every action prosper. [This passage indicates that success can certainly be obtained, but only after a considerable period of waiting patiently.]

 

[GreenHazel]

You seem to have shared with us two different questions with the same answer of 3.2.3.4 > 43. What was your actual question? Thanks, d.

Hi Freedda, thank you for reading me and sorry if I've been confusing.
The questions were different and had different results :

“Is this man seriously interested in me?” 61.3.4.6
“Is he my one?” 3.2.3.4

But the related Hexagram for both was the same, 43.
While the first time I interpreted it as a Decision to let him in more, this second time my instinct goes into the opposite direction, which is waiting, even at the cost of losing him completely. It doesn't feel like a Decision at all, and it makes me wonder if I got it wrong also the first time.

My question for you guys was how do you see this second 43 in the light of both casts, and of the context.
I hope it makes sense?

 

[Trojina]

Personally I don't think it's one to do a reading about or rather an interpretation about. How can he possibly be your 'one' when he is with someone, has 2 kids and is a consummate liar.

I think anyway 43 calls for a clean break, a decision.

You'd know if he is seriously interested in you by what he does. If he is seriously interested in you he would leave his partner, after telling her and the kids the truth and he would live with you instead. If he doesn't do that why would you collude in his harmful and despicable act of deceiving his partner and children.

I like the fact that he’s been honest on everything (at least with me).

Don't fall into that old trap of imagining a man who lies to his partner is going to be honest just with you. Of course he won't be honest with you. Even if you got together he'd lie to you and see other women, it's what he does.

He's probably good at creating the whole drama thing with women.

We had a last discussion at the phone, where I was just plainly sad, feeling that we had failed completely, and he was feeling rejected and angry, and that was it.

I wonder what he imagines he has a right to feel angry about ? Did he not get what he wanted ? Oh dear poor thing. He has no right to get angry because he is lying to his partner and she should be the one with the right to be angry not him. Good Grief he's just manipulating your emotions with his self centred whinging. You only fail if you collude in his lies otherwise how have you failed ?

You told him what you wanted and he ignored you and pressured you probably you became a challenge to him. Beware, once he has got you where he wants you, he'll crap all over you as well. He's selfish self centred and inconsiderate by the sound of it. No point in asking Yi questions when you have the actual facts in front of you. Has he ever said he is leaving his partner and kids to be with you ? If not why on earth would you even contemplate continuing with him.

 

[marybluesky]

You seem to have shared with us two different questions with the same answer of 3.2.3.4 > 43. What was your actual question? Thanks, d.

There are two different bold questions and the only similar part in readings is the result hexagram.

 

[GreenHazel]

First, 43 is not signifying the future; it’s merely the background: Decision, Breakthrough, Resolution.

Thank you so much Foxx.
It makes total sense. I have just learned recently about the idea of the related Hexagrams as backgrounds and I still tend to see them as future developments, exactly as you say.

In the light of this, the recurrent 43 perfectly describes my background inner situation of the last 2.5 months, feeling constantly pressured to take an important Decision.

*You say he has a partner and a child, but his involvement with you indicates that he’s not committed to the partner. People with spouses and partners and kids break up all the time. If he can do this then you can have a full love relationship with him and perhaps a child of your own

I know. And thank you for not judging. It's just that these type of decisions come much further down the line, normally. Not after 2 months, if you know what I mean.
This is why it's been so difficult, and awkward, in places; you are right, it was, it is, all about commitment. A scary word. Something that comes up later in a relationship, after you date, have fun and are lighthearted.
But at least, something that should be there as a "potential" from both sides, in the same measure, from the start, unless you just prefer to keep everything just at a physical level. At least this is how I feel.

It is very hard now. It's not a passive waiting, it is more trying to keep centered in my self. And keeping the love, independently.

I'll keep you guys posted should I have any development.

Thank you so much for your insights, if you have others they are very welcome.

 

[GreenHazel]

Thank you for the tough love, Trojina I honestly appreciate it.
And I do agree with you, on almost everything. More than you could think.
But see ... I don't see myself as a victim.
I have my responsabilities of getting emotionally involved, as he told me about his family the first day we met. So, if he has problems, so do I. Or, sometimes love can be real even if people are full of flaws.

Has he ever said he is leaving his partner and kids to be with you ?

This is where I completely disagree with you. If a man told me he's leaving his partner and kid to be and live with me after just 2 months we know each other ... this is where you would see me running, real fast.
Getting to know someone who's already in a relationship takes even more time than normal. People in relationships fall in love with others too, you know; it's more difficult to understand what type of feelings are involved, if it's just an escape, or more, but thinking they are just players only because they are already in a relationship is just too simple, IMO.

If not why on earth would you even contemplate continuing with him.

I'm not. I told him that since it was too difficult for us to keep it at a platonic level we'd better stop calling and seeing each other and perhaps try to be friends in a while.

 

[foxx777]

I'm not. I told him that since it was too difficult for us to keep it at a platonic level we'd better stop calling and seeing each other and perhaps try to be friends in a while.

@GreenHazel
Right, it’s this attitude of yours, that you should maintain, which can make the potential for something real actualize down the line. Of course he’d rather just immediately have fulfillment with you on the side while remaining with his partner and child; it’s the easiest solution for the short term and plenty of men and women do it, but it’s dishonest and always leads to someone getting deeply wounded. So you’re correct to stick to your guns and not let him manipulate you. If you’re meant to be together it needs to be done in good faith and truthfully. Best wishes.

 

[Trojina]

I don't see you as a victim, the people who are the victims are his current partner and their children because they are being knowingly deceived by both of you.


Whichever way I look at it it isn't clear what you actually want but whatever you want don't go on letting his partner be deceived. That's cruel to her and it will have an impact on the kids too.

This is where I completely disagree with you. If a man told me he's leaving his partner and kid to be and live with me after just 2 months we know each other ... this is where you would see me running, real fast.

But you think it's fine that he stays with his partner and lies to her What do you want to happen ? Do you just want to keep seeing him while he is living with her ? That would be wrong wouldn't it so the only other honest options are you don't see him or his partner finds out the truth about the pair of you and decides whether to kick him out or not so he can live with you.


So either he leaves to be with you or he tells his partner the truth and goes on seeing you while he lives with her. Either way she has to know the truth as otherwise she is being treated in a cruel way. She shouldn't be treated like this so the main issue is not what he feels but what he is putting her through. That's the priority IMO.

Also this is a bit of a warning sign

. I don’t like the fact that he expresses his frustration in an angry way sometimes. I don’t like the fact that he had other affairs.

So he's had other affairs whilst living with this woman so he is quite an accomplished liar but then he gets angry when he is frustrated. Look maybe he's just a very good actor who knows how to make a woman she was meant for him. If he is a liar to this extent it seems he has no decent character. Why would you go through this for a liar.

And didn't you have 61.1 somewhere ? No you had 61.3.4.6>43 and you asked if he was seriously interested in you ? So you don't know if he is seriously interested or you wouldn't have asked.

I don't think one can exactly glean from Yi the level of interest and I do find often Yi describes highest potential between any 2 people. This connection looks like you bounce off each other, reflecting and exaggerating the other's emotions. There's a lot of intensity here but one can't glean from that if t his is 'serious' interest. Serious interest would mean him taking action to leave his family rather than just have you as another affair. 61.6 calls out too much, exaggerated feeling, pleading, this line isn't in touch with how things are but thinks all things happen through calling and crying out and all that that believes expression of the emotions somehow changes everything when it doesn't. In line 4 there's some kind of separation.

But to my mind the reading doesn't matter because in the end you have a liar and possibly a very good actor calling out his lines in line 6 perhaps

 

[Trojina]

I anticipate you may find my post too judgmental in which case I can delete if you ask me to.

 

[foxx777]

I anticipate you may find my post too judgmental in which case I can delete if you ask me to.

I of course can’t speak for @GreenHazel but she strikes me as someone who can handle constructive criticism. The points you make are important ones and she seems well aware of the dangers, which is why she and this man haven’t spoken in 3 weeks: She refuses to get physical with him while he’s in the other relationship which if he is worth anything will place her in very high standing with him.

If he’s sincere and not just a player it will be obvious when he first leaves this relationship and then contacts her. I think we all can agree that to give into him sexually now would be bad faith and a disaster all around. It would give him the message that he can have both.

 

[Trojina]

Yes, but she doesn't seem very invested in him leaving his partner and kids ? I mean she said

This is where I completely disagree with you. If a man told me he's leaving his partner and kid to be and live with me after just 2 months we know each other ... this is where you would see me running, real fast.

...so I don't know how long she thinks the affair would need to be for before she thought it was okay to be honest and for him to leave his partner and kids. So that's illogical because it sounds like she's saying if she had ana affair for 6 months for example and he left his partner that would be fine. But none of it can ever be fine as long as there are real victims and he sounds like a player to me, I don't believe in him but I could be wrong. But then why would he get angry and frustrated with the querent, what is he angry about exactly ?

I don't trust the whole scenario, I think he knows how to make women feel that way which is why he's had affairs before. But if he's had affairs before why would anyone think he was a decent person who wanted anything serious. He's lied well before he will do it again. The readings don't make me trust him either, I think he's full of hot air and dramatics (61.6)

 

[foxx777]

@Trojina
Your points are all very well taken. The only thing is, she had said she was keeping things on the level of a platonic friendship, which is why he wound up feeling rejected and angry and stopped speaking to her.

In other words, she’s not ok with having an affair with him, and she hasn’t done this (and shouldn’t). Fine.

She needs to stand her ground and show that she’ll not be another enabling him to have his cake and eat it, too. If he’s serious about her he’ll know what to do. If not, she needs to forget him. That’s where all your comments absolutely ring true.

I think this is what 3.4 is saying: Blofeld: Hesitating like a man trotting to and fro, he waits for marriage. Thenceforth, good fortune will prevail and every action prosper. [This passage indicates that success can certainly be obtained, but only after a considerable period of waiting patiently.]

I don't trust the whole scenario, I think he knows how to make women feel that way which is why he's had affairs before. But if he's had affairs before why would anyone think he was a decent person who wanted anything serious. He's lied well before he will do it again. The readings don't make me trust him either, I think he's full of hot air and dramatics (61.6)

.
Right, this is one aspect of him and time will tell if he’s ready to break the mold as in 3.4

 

[foxx777]

@Trojina FYI: I edited my post above by adding some things .

 

[my_key]

“Is this man seriously interested in me?” 61.3.4.6 > 43
“Is he my one?” 3.2.3.4 > 43

Taking the aspect of two questions returning Hex 43 as the changing hexagram first. This situation is all bound up within the web of making a decision and sticking to it. Whatever the difficulties of the situation are see them clearly, quickly face them, take a course of action and following it through in a calm and resolute manner. There is an obstacle to be overcome in this situation but only GreenHazel is going to really know what that is. Maybe there is a different obstacle in each of the question scenarios.

“Is this man seriously interested in me?” 61.3.4.6 > 43

This man's interest in you is based on your being trustworthy, calm and non judgemental. At the start the man will feel he has reeled you in and so emotionally engulfed this will be an intense roller coaster , which may not fully reflect how things will continue (3). Freedom of choice to each walk an authentic path will become clear in time - perhaps you walking away from him is that choice (4). There is a mismatch here that flies in the face of reason. There is a trap here waiting to be sprung (6). Obstacles will become clear and will need to be addressed (43)

“Is he my one?” 3.2.3.4 > 43
Hex 3 means it appears but does not leave it's dwelling place. An obstacle is hiding in the wings.There are lessons to be learnt from the hard lines drawn around this one(2). See things for what they are and do not get drawn into the dark wood of distress (3). When you come out of the wanderings in the wood you will have a clearer picture of what is going on and what you are really looking for. Then you will be able to draw a map to your 'one' (6).

Good Luck

 

[GreenHazel]

@GreenHazel
Right, it’s this attitude of yours, that you should maintain, which can make the potential for something real actualize down the line. Of course he’d rather just immediately have fulfillment with you on the side while remaining with his partner and child; it’s the easiest solution for the short term and plenty of men and women do it, but it’s dishonest and always leads to someone getting deeply wounded. So you’re correct to stick to your guns and not let him manipulate you. If you’re meant to be together it needs to be done in good faith and truthfully. Best wishes.

Thank you for this. Truly. Right or wrong all this might have been, halting things when your heart is still full of the joy we shared just being in each other presence is not easy. Your post made me realize this is why I came here, to find the strength to keep sticking to my guns. You did give me more than I can say. Thank you.

I anticipate you may find my post too judgmental in which case I can delete if you ask me to.

No, you don't need to delete anything. Thank you for asking, though

Yes, but she doesn't seem very invested in him leaving his partner and kids ?

Not only I'm not "invested". I would have stopped him, if he said he would.
I'm sorry, but this would strike me as someone trying to play me, or in the best case scenario someone very irresponsable and immature. You don't make these decisions, that involve not just you but your family, after 2 months you know someone. No matter how in love you might feel. If you really need to put at risk the happiness of other people, you need to be very sure that it's worth it, and that you know that it has a high possibility to work, for everybody. And this doesn't happen in two months. Otherwise it's called "rebound".

I would never, ever asked him to leave his family for me, not in 2 months, not in 6 months, not in 6 years.
This is not what love is about, in my world. This is his decision only. My decision was to tell him that I couldn't be with him as his lover, because it didn't seem fair for anybody, myself included.
Since I'm human, my feelings didn't stop the second that we stopped seeing each other. This is why I came here looking for some encouragement, that my second 43 was about this and that I did the right thing, and that perhaps later in this life or in another life we will be free to love each other. That's all.

@Trojina
Your points are all very well taken. The only thing is, she had said she was keeping things on the level of a platonic friendship, which is why he wound up feeling rejected and angry and stopped speaking to her.

In other words, she’s not ok with having an affair with him, and she hasn’t done this (and shouldn’t). Fine.

She needs to stand her ground and show that she’ll not be another enabling him to have his cake and eat it, too. If he’s serious about her he’ll know what to do. If not, she needs to forget him. That’s where all your comments absolutely ring true.

I think this is what 3.4 is saying: Blofeld: Hesitating like a man trotting to and fro, he waits for marriage. Thenceforth, good fortune will prevail and every action prosper. [This passage indicates that success can certainly be obtained, but only after a considerable period of waiting patiently.]

Right, this is one aspect of him and time will tell if he’s ready to break the mold as in 3.4

^ This. Thank you for understanding me.
I'm not sure it will happen in this life, I'm not sure it's possible after such a short time we saw each other, but I'm sure this encounter has touched both of us in a deep way.
We tried something unusual, it failed, but the feelings were true. I'm pretty certain of this.
I'm focusing now on the general message of Hexagram 3, the blade of grass that has to find its identity and direction, to keep this identity inside me and be true to myself in spite of external love or external pain, this is what is teaching me. I'm heartbroken but grateful.

I'm moved by all the time that you guys are dedicating me. It means a lot, in this moment.

 

[diamanda]

Is this man seriously interested in me? 61.3.4.6 > 43
No. He's playing push-pull games (61.3), he's independent (61.4), he just crows and brings misfortune (61.6). 43 means that he'll soon dump you.

Is he my one? 3.2.3.4 > 43
No. You're waiting for the one but he's not (3.2), you've fallen into a trap you don't recognise (3.3), soon you'll start running after him (3.4) and he'll dump you (43).

Why wouldn't you ask him to leave his partner and child? Their relationship is dead (with so many affairs he had, plus you and him pretending to have a platonic interest between you). It's not good for anyone to remain in a dead relationship - and what's more, of course he'll do the same to you if he leaves her to be with you. Romanticising about this scenario will harm you, please rethink the situation.

 

[GreenHazel]

My_key, these are extremely precious insights, I'm most grateful to you.
Thank you also for bringing back the discussion to the IC questions, which is why I'm here; perhaps also other people who got the same results could be interested more in this than a general discussion on my relationship.

Your interpretation rings true on so many levels. I was especially impressed by this:

“Is this man seriously interested in me?”

61.3.4.6 > 43

This man's interest in you is based on your being trustworthy, calm and non judgemental. At the start the man will feel he has reeled you in and so emotionally engulfed this will be an intense roller coaster , which may not fully reflect how things will continue (3)

I confirm this is exactly how it started; he seemed very sure to conquer me, in a playful way, but very sure. I think that when we both realized we were starting to develop extremely strong feelings, that's when everything seemed to go out of hand, for both. I don't think neither of us was prepared for it.

There is a mismatch here that flies in the face of reason. There is a trap here waiting to be sprung (6)

Line 6 was the most complex to understand for me. It was actually because of this line that I decided to focus mostly on the main message of Hexagram 61, Inner Truth, and this is probably how I took a wrong 43 Decision the first time; I interpreted it as the answer to my question. "Is he serious about me?" "Yes, he's got Inner Truth".

Can you tell me a little more on this "mismatch", and where do you see the "trap"?

This was the commentary I read:
Legge: Line six should be magnetic, but is dynamic, and coming after line five, what can he accomplish? His efforts will be ineffectual and self-destructive. He is symbolized as a cock -- literally: "The plumaged voice." But a cock is not fitted to fly high, and will only hurt himself in the attempt.

Do you think it was about me, going to be hurt in the attempt? Or him, not fitted to fly high?
This is something I still struggle very much to understand. Is the IC talking about me or the other person?
I know one should always ask the IC in the first person, and I do, normally, this is one of the very few cases I asked about another person... was this a mistake?

Everything else you've written is amazingly spot on. I wish I had your wisdom.
Thank you again, so much. It was really helpful.

 

[GreenHazel]

Thank you very much, Diamanda.
It's certainly puzzling how interpretations can be different, but each one is giving me very important insights, and makes me understand how to read the answers.

The main question that I still have is the one I just asked in the previous answer to My_Key.
How do I know who the IC is talking about?

For example:

No. He's playing push-pull games (61.3)

The push-pull was actually more mine (unwittingly) than his.
He's been pretty much constant, and also very patient, while I was really acting differently, all the time.

and this one too:

soon you'll start running after him (3.4)

I imagine you refer to this:
"Legge: The fourth line, magnetic, shows its subject as a lady, the horses of whose chariot appear in retreat. She seeks, however, the help of him who seeks her to be his wife. Advance will be fortunate; all will turn out advantageously."

I interpreted it as "I should only seek the help of the one who truly seeks me to be his wife" (Line 5) in contrast of the help offered by Line 1 "His offer of help is not to be accepted. Not being from the right quarter, it may entail undesirable obligations" (Siu)
This answer to me was actually pretty amazing. As the man I fell in love with was actually someone sent to help me with something. And yes, I did end up feeling almos obliged eventually to give him more than I felt it was right, just because he'd been so wonderful and patient. And because I didn't want to lose him.
As Foxx777 said, only time will tell if he's the one or not.
So I'm not sure how to translate all this into the idea that I will soon run after him. Mostly because honestly, I have no intentions to.

he just crows and brings misfortune (61.6)

This is pretty creepy, but for the sake of honesty, and for science, I'll share it.
Since we "broke up", at least 3 different quite improbable incidents happened to me. One, pretty bad.
It was actually quite difficult for me to read your interpretation, it gave me the chills.


For all the rest. You are probably right on keeping my romanticism levels in check : )
I will make a mental note for this. You are right. So, thank you.
I also agree on the sadness of cheating and keeping a broken family together. Yes, I would go away too.
The thing is, it's his family. Not mine. It's his decision. Not mine. He knows the ins and the outs, he knows how much broken it is, how much he needs them and love them, how much they need him and love him, I know nothing of all this, and I should know nothing. I just know my reality, which is what I'm trying to focus on. We are NOT in a relationship, we've never been. We have been briefly in love with each other, and that something you just can't plan, nor avoid.

If it's ok I'd rather keep talking about the IC interpretation. It's my way of keeping focused, and learning something new.

Thanks again for all your insights.

 

[foxx777]

How do I know who the IC is talking about?

You alone know the situation “from the inside.” By contemplation you will glean which lines are referring to you, or to him. Trust your own intuition.

As Foxx777 said, only time will tell if he's the one or not.
So I'm not sure how to translate all this into the idea that I will soon run after him. Mostly because honestly, I have no intentions to.

Thanks, I firmly believe this and also believe you won’t chase him.

This is pretty creepy, but for the sake of honesty, and for science, I'll share it.
Since we "broke up", at least 3 different quite improbable incidents happened to me. One, pretty bad.
It was actually quite difficult for me to read your interpretation, it gave me the chills.

Interesting. Can you expand?

If it's ok I'd rather keep talking about the IC interpretation. It's my way of keeping focused, and learning something new.

Brava

 

[diamanda]

Hi GreenHazel,

The push-pull was actually more mine (unwittingly) than his.

Indeed you said that you did that. Line 61.3 speaks of both parties doing that, so he is doing this already or will also do it. The line is exactly about when one seems more interested, the other pulls away. Which would agree with line 3.4, that even if now you have the upper hand of playing aloof, you could soon lose it. Meaning that the situation is a game, his heart is not in it, he's not seriously interested. Come to think about it, he's already doing a push-pull (you're so super special to him, and yet not as special as to want a relationship with you, he's so into you and yet he has already told you he's a 'multiple affairs' guy).

So I'm not sure how to translate all this into the idea that I will soon run after him. Mostly because honestly, I have no intentions to.

Thing is, I've experienced a couple of similar scenarios in the past. It's a trap. I have read countless stories which are almost identical to this one, only the "issues" details change. They all have strikingly common characteristics: the 'love' story starts abruptly and is extremely intense (love-bombing) - the pursuer appears as an amazing prince but at the same time also unavailable ("has got issues", of whatever type) - the pursued feels that something magical is happening - once the pursued is hooked, the pursuer goes cold - the pursued then feels extremely distraught at the whole fraud and starts now being the pursuer. This scenario can last for years, on and off, push pull, drama, anguish, pain, etc., depending on if/when the victim opens their eyes and leaves. I'm saying all this to explain line 3.4 and how someone can get to that point. Also, in my experience, when the I Ching says "wife" it frequently plays out as a long-term relationship (even if it's the type of bonkers 'relationship' I just described).

he just crows and brings misfortune (61.6)

I did not mean that he will bring overall bad luck in your life. This line means that the cock is creating the misfortune directly. It shows a person who speaks dramatically but no action materialises, and this is a misfortune.

As about who a line is talking about, this is a very complex question which would belong in Exploring Divination.

 

[my_key]

Can you tell me a little more on this "mismatch", and where do you see the "trap"?

This was the commentary I read:
Legge: Line six should be magnetic, but is dynamic, and coming after line five, what can he accomplish? His efforts will be ineffectual and self-destructive. He is symbolized as a cock -- literally: "The plumaged voice." But a cock is not fitted to fly high, and will only hurt himself in the attempt.

Do you think it was about me, going to be hurt in the attempt? Or him, not fitted to fly high?
This is something I still struggle very much to understand. Is the IC talking about me or the other person?

Hi Green Hazel
Line 6 can be tricky to interpret, and to my way of thinking is perhaps the one that most needs to be figured out by the querant (i.e. you). There are too many things that could be mismatched in this stuation and the best way for you to get a better understanding is to try each of your scenarios on like a new shoe. Walk a while with it. If the shoe pinches your toes, feels too tight or is so loose that your foot slides around inside then take the shoe off and try on others until you get a good fit.

Remember it'll be a comment from Yi related to “Is this man seriously interested in me?” in a context of making firm and resolute decisions, from a position of looking down / back at the Inner Truth of the situation i.e from above or at the end. Line 6 can represent a place for wisdom or mental processes so the 'mismatch' could be something related to that and the 'trap' could be resulting from the 'mismatch' continuing.

Is the IC talking about me or the other person? - The Lower Trigram tends to contain comments relating to the querant personally or their inner world. The Upper Trigram tends to contain comments relating to the querant's environment, others in the situation or other influences. Spend time with each line and try to weave a story from the lines that you resonate with. If a line doesn't make sense in the story just miss it out or take a small truth from it that does resonate and can be part of the story. ' It is about me but I don't understand what it is saying'; ' It is about him but I don't understand what it is saying'. What it means tends to unfold with time or contemplation of the images.

Of course Line 6 may mean none of these things for you when you finally discover the glass slipper that fits perfectly.

Good Luck

 

[foxx777]

Thing is, I've experienced a couple of similar scenarios in the past. It's a trap. I have read countless stories which are almost identical to this one, only the "issues" details change. They all have strikingly common characteristics: the 'love' story starts abruptly and is extremely intense (love-bombing) - the pursuer appears as an amazing prince but at the same time also unavailable ("has got issues", of whatever type) - the pursued feels that something magical is happening - once the pursued is hooked, the pursuer goes cold - the pursued then feels extremely distraught at the whole fraud and starts now being the pursuer. This scenario can last for years, on and off, push pull, drama, anguish, pain, etc., depending on if/when the victim opens their eyes and leaves. I'm saying all this to explain line 3.4 and how someone can get to that point. Also, in my experience, when the I Ching says "wife" it frequently plays out as a long-term relationship (even if it's the type of bonkers 'relationship' I just described).

The only thing which confuses me in her reading is 3.4, which I’ve never viewed as a line about a woman chasing a fickle man, but rather as a man who appears to be of bad character but then proves faithful which is why I mentioned that to @GreenHazel : Wu: The horse carriage falters along. The lady is being asked for marriage. It will be auspicious to accept. Everything will be advantageous. Outside of this line, what you say above makes sense and reveals the situation to be a sham through and through. But 3.4 would imply there’s another side to his story. Wondering if both of you understand my position here?

 

[GreenHazel]

Hi Green Hazel
...the best way for you to get a better understanding is to try each of your scenarios on like a new shoe. Walk a while with it. If the shoe pinches your toes, feels too tight or is so loose that your foot slides around inside then take the shoe off and try on others until you get a good fit.

It's a very good analogy. I'm a visual person, so it works especially well for me. Thank you for suggesting it.

Remember it'll be a comment from Yi related to “Is this man seriously interested in me?” in a context of making firm and resolute decisions, from a position of looking down / back at the Inner Truth of the situation i.e from above or at the end. Line 6 can represent a place for wisdom or mental processes so the 'mismatch' could be something related to that and the 'trap' could be resulting from the 'mismatch' continuing.

I really like how easily you summarize the entire cast, question, primary Hexagram, related Hexagram and single changing lines... I really want to learn how to do this. I know it's not easy to arrive at this point, but this is why I'm here. I don't use the IC so often, as a still have a "reverential" feeling about it meaning that I ask when I really can't find an answer inside me, but every single time I'm amazed by how directly it speaks to me.

To use another metaphor, your interpretations remind me of a very skillful pianist or a famous ice skater who look effortless in their performances, but you can just see how much practice they must have put into it... thank you SO much for sharing your wisdom with me. It's really helping me.

Most of all, this is what I'm learning:

What it means tends to unfold with time or contemplation of the images.

 

[diamanda]

The only thing which confuses me in her reading is 3.4, which I’ve never viewed as a line about a woman chasing a fickle man, but rather as a man who appears to be of bad character but then proves faithful which is why I mentioned that to @GreenHazel : Wu: The horse carriage falters along. The lady is being asked for marriage. It will be auspicious to accept. Everything will be advantageous. Outside of this line, what you say above makes sense and reveals the situation to be a sham through and through. But 3.4 would imply there’s another side to his story. Wondering if both of you understand my position here?

Yes I see what you mean. If the line clearly said that a man is proposing to a woman, then Wu would be correct. However there are no specific characters in this line that say 'man' or 'woman'. Hence, since this is a female line activated (changing), it's seen by most translators to mean that the woman is active in seeking 'marriage'.
So how can it be favourable for a woman to propose marriage, since traditionally throughout history (also in ancient China) it's the other way round? In this specific scenario I would say it's favourable because if the woman is forced to run after a man and issue him with an ultimatum of some sort, and ask for 'marriage', the issue would then be resolved. 43 is the male rejecting the female, also it means that a matter is resolutely cleared up.

 

[GreenHazel]

Thanks, I firmly believe this and also believe you won’t chase him.
Brava

Thank you so, so much for your support Foxx. It's pretty amazing how simple words sometimes can make a difference in our motivation. You made my day, today.

Thing is, I've experienced a couple of similar scenarios in the past. It's a trap.

I understand what you are saying, and I'm going to say something more about this in a moment.
I just wanted to say thank you. Because I can see the care, without judjement, from a woman to another woman. This is a precious little forum, I really couldn't hope to find better "helpers".

The only thing which confuses me in her reading is 3.4, which I’ve never viewed as a line about a woman chasing a fickle man, but rather as a man who appears to be of bad character but then proves faithful which is why I mentioned that to @GreenHazel : Wu: The horse carriage falters along. The lady is being asked for marriage. It will be auspicious to accept. Everything will be advantageous. Outside of this line, what you say above makes sense and reveals the situation to be a sham through and through. But 3.4 would imply there’s another side to his story. Wondering if both of you understand my position here?

I do. Very, very well. And not necessarily because I'm trying to see a happy ending to this story.
I do because the "there’s another side to his story" is the very element that made me think this relationship was worth to be at least considered, at some possible level.

I do understand the scenario Diamanda is describing, extremely well; it's the typical scenario of a relationship with a Narcissist, with which, unfortunately, I'm very well acquantied.

I'm fully aware this man has Narcissistic traits, but he's not a full Narcissist.
As I do have some Codependant traits, but I'm not one.
The fact is that we are both aware of what we are and for this reason we recognized each other; because we come from a similar past. And we are both fighting against it.

This is perhaps the other side of the story. This was our hope, to overcome old patterns.
We didn't succeed. We probably never will. For a brief moment we thought we had.

I didn't want to talk again about my relationship, but both of your perceptions were right, and I thought it was fair to tell you.

 

[GreenHazel]

Yes I see what you mean. If the line clearly said that a man is proposing to a woman, then Wu would be correct. However there are no specific characters in this line that say 'man' or 'woman'. Hence, since this is a female line activated (changing), it's seen by most translators to mean that the woman is active in seeking 'marriage'.
So how can it be favourable for a woman to propose marriage, since traditionally throughout history (also in ancient China) it's the other way round? In this specific scenario I would say it's favourable because if the woman is forced to run after a man and issue him with an ultimatum of some sort, and ask for 'marriage', the issue would then be resolved. 43 is the male rejecting the female, also it means that a matter is resolutely cleared up.

3.2

Legge: Advance is even more difficult for the second line than for line one. She is magnetic, and pressed by the dynamic line below her. Above, in the fifth line is the ruler with whom union should be properly sought. All these circumstances suggest the idea of a young lady sought in marriage by a strong suitor with whom marriage was unsuitable. She rejects him, and after ten years marries the only suitable match for her. "Things resume their regular course" means that she is now at liberty to seek a union with line five.(not line 1)


3.4

Legge: The fourth line, magnetic, shows its subject as a lady, the horses of whose chariot appear in retreat. She seeks, however, the help of him who seeks her to be his wife (line 5). Advance will be fortunate; all will turn out advantageously.



This is my interpretation, combining 3.2 and 3.4:

I should wait until someone capable of real commitment will come into my life.
I don't know if it will be this guy, or another one, but in any case this is what I should wait for.

It's not a matter of actively seeking a man, or running after him, is more about learning to discern who is trustworthy and then be open to him. (accepting the help of who seeks a wife)

I really believe that the guy this thread is about is not a bad guy - ("A suitor, not a transgressor, not a robber"), what I'm not sure if he's the one Line 4 talks about. This is why I asked.

Does it make any sense at all?

For the moment, I feel like I have much work to do on myself. Hexagram 3 not a walk in the park

 

[diamanda]

"This is my interpretation, combining 3.2 and 3.4" - your interpretation of you waiting for someone (this guy or another) who is trustworthy sounds very plausible, IF the question had been "how to find the one for me". Your question was specifically about if he's the one for you. We can't take one cast and make it fit to a variety of similarly phrased questions, it's very important exactly how we phrase the question.

Also, if the question had been how to find the one, and you had got 3.2 and 3.4, resulting in 58, it would be a different story. But here not only the question was different - you also got line 3.3, and the resulting hexagram is 43.

Believe me I do understand how you feel and I know it's painful. The powerful hormonal cocktail is intoxicating and this clouds our judgement. Bad or not bad I don't know, but this guy is certainly not relationship material.

 

[foxx777]

Yes I see what you mean. If the line clearly said that a man is proposing to a woman, then Wu would be correct. However there are no specific characters in this line that say 'man' or 'woman'. Hence, since this is a female line activated (changing), it's seen by most translators to mean that the woman is active in seeking 'marriage'.
So how can it be favourable for a woman to propose marriage, since traditionally throughout history (also in ancient China) it's the other way round? In this specific scenario I would say it's favourable because if the woman is forced to run after a man and issue him with an ultimatum of some sort, and ask for 'marriage', the issue would then be resolved. 43 is the male rejecting the female, also it means that a matter is resolutely cleared up.

Ok, that’s interesting and shows a different perspective. Thanks. However I would say that ‘female’ and ‘male’ from today’s purview might be relative or symbolic in some instances.