Kudzu and Booze? (Hex 47)

[freemanc]

Kudzu is mentioned in 47.6; We're "tangled in kudzu and stumps"...

And in the same hex at 47.2, we're "tangled in liquor and food"...


So there's sort of a paralell set up between liquor and kudzu (perhaps...)

Well, I found this in Google news today...

Here's a story about kudzu being used as an anti-alcohol thing....


http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/2835.html


So 47.2 is the problem, and 47.6 is the cure?

Something? Nothing?


FC

 

[cal val]

Hi Freeman...

I read the article yesterday on cnn.com and was disappointed. And I just read the article you linked to. It says the same thing. It's not a panacea by any means, and it's certainly not a cure for alcoholism. There is misleading wording at the beginning of the article intimating a possible treatment for alcoholism which I suspect is done to create justification for getting a lot of publicity for the research. Bottom line is that a capsule of kudzu before you start drinking will get you drunk faster. I don't see how that benefits addictive drinking in the least. It might appeal to teenagers who want a quick buzz though.

Maybe 47.6 "Oppressed by creeping vines" means that if you buy into the hype, you'll be oppressed... *grin* I know that's not what 47.6 means, of course. But, since it means allowing yourself to be oppressed by things that ought not oppress you (or self-inflicted oppression), then I suppose it does mean that indirectly.

Love,

Val

 

[hilary]

Well!
Is it definitely kudzu at line 6, not just an anonymous creeping vine?

So kudzu makes you feel drunker, quicker. That actually makes more sense in the context of the line, which has to do with delusions. R&K even say the 6th character of the line can mean 'giddy as if on a high place'...

 

[freemanc]

Yes, specifically Kudzu. Kunst cited it (as with several plants) by its species name and I looked it up, was delighted to find it was Kudzu, and even more so to learn that Kudzu was a medicinal.

"Giddy as if on a high place." Oh my gosh! How incredible. And perhaps literally how you feel on the kudzu+alcohol combination? If it works by being a vasodialator that might make your head dizzy, yes? (And not pleasant -- somewhat aversive?)

The author of the Y was a highly expert herbalist, and I just can't imagine her not knowing about the kudzu+alcohol effect.

So perhaps there is something to this. I wish I knew more about the shamans and their use of medicines and drugs.

(And Val, yes. My line of thoughts was exactly like yours when I read the article. But the benefit of this is, or would be, in diminishing the amount an alcoholic desires and therefore drinks when on a toot.)

giddily,

FC

PS Mr Google tells me Kudzu is a vasodialtor. Ha!!!!!!

 

[ewald]

I searched for the two Chinese characters indicating this plant in 47.6 in Google. There exists a vine with exactly this name Gelei (see Google translation), Vitis Flexuosa.

So it seems this is not Kudzu (Pueraria Thunbergiana), which is mentioned in a couple of dictionaries for Ge, the first of the two Chinese characters.

 

[ewald]

If the species is Ge2, than Lei3 can also mean "bud," instead of "creeper." Muller mentions Dolichos for Ge2. If that is not Kudzu, and not Vitis Flexuosa, than Dolichos Lablab is a likely option.

http://www.floridata.com/ref/D/doli_lab.cfm mentions about Lablab:
"It is believed that Dolichos lablab, the lablab bean, originated in Asia, but it is now grown for food throughout much of the world. It is a very popular plant in China where it has been grown on fences and trellises in back yards for centuries."

So this one has been known in China for a long time. Not unlikely that is was already known and used in Zhou times.

It's interesting that this edible plant is poisonous when not treated correctly:
"Dry seeds should be well cooked in two changes of water before eating. Raw dry seeds are poisonous and can cause vomiting, labored breathing, and even convulsions and unconsciousness."

Someone might accidently forget to change the cooking water, or even eat raw seeds, and poison themselves. This IMO is likely what happens in 47.6:
<blockquote>Suffering by Lablab beans.
While tottering unsteadily,
saying in a trembling voice:
"Regret, I have regret."
Undertakings bring good fortune.</blockquote>

 

[jte]

Interesting, Ewald -

So then, assuming your deductions/translation are correct, an interesting question becomes - what is the lablab-bean-induced suffering a metaphor for:

- The fact that inadequate preparation (ie, the processing of the beans) in the past resulted in the current suffering condition? (And so one has presumable learned enough now to prepare adequately for similar future situations, hence the auspice of good fortune in future endeavors?)

- The condition (of suffering) itself - the symptoms are similar to the moderately strong poisoning induced by these beans?

- The fact that the condition (like the poisoning) is non-lethal and transitory (and hence the auspice of good fortune in future endeavors).

I'd be curious to see which aspect, if any single one, is the "focus" of the metaphor presented in the line. Or maybe it's a wholistic comparison and deliberate ambiguity is the point - so we draw the appropriate conclusion, based on our own particular situation. Hard to say...

- Jeff

 

[ewald]

Hi Jeff - I see it as a metaphor for suffering the consequences of a careless action.

I like your first interpretation of the auspice, which was puzzling me. For the second to apply, I'd say that zheng1 ("undertakings") should be shifted to the previous sentence, like:
<blockquote>"Regret, I have regret about going."
Good fortune.</blockquote>

 

[jte]

Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind next time I receive the line in a reading and see how it bears out.

- Jeff

 

[hmesker]

Let us not forget that 'gelei' also figures prominently in the Shijing, especially in M71, which bears this name. 'Gelei' is used as a metaphor for being away from one's home and family. According to the Hanyu Da Cidian it is used to describe the decline of the Zhou house, and people are wandering through the country, being homeless (because of ongoing wars?). Ming dynasty scholar Gui Youguang (1506-1571) is quoted, describing 'gelei' as grieve because of not having the protection of the 'jiuzu', the nine degrees of kinship.

See also Shijing M4.

Harmen.