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Memorizing the I Ching Hexagram 21. Shih Ho / Biting Through

heylise

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The character translated as finding or receiving is "de", acquire. Makes it sound even more as if there is a reward or achievement.

The fanyao is about the greedy tiger, in 27, fiercely going after what you want or need.

This line is the total opposite of 48.4, about the masonry-lined well. There things have to be in order, for everything to work fine. So I think here the effort of biting through, the ambition and determination, and eventually success, are important.

I see line 4 always as the place of counscious choice, knowing what you want and how, why, and act according to that, so determination to achieve a goal makes sense

LiSe
 
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heylise

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I think you bite through something and afterwards you get a reward, even when that is only your own satisfaction that you did what you wanted to do

LiSe
 
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bruce_g

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Thank you, LiSe.

Couple quick thoughts:

You don't "acquire" a piece of grizzle or bone; you bite through it, and then aquire what you hunger for: the meat.

A dog bites through a bone to get to the marrow. LiSe's commentary says something to that effect: "Only when one goes to the bottom of things, one finds the causes of trouble. Nobody likes to go there, finding problems which are difficult to solve."
 

Trojina

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Chuckling here, Trojan, as you gnaw away on that bone. Ironic, isn't it, how these discussions sync up with our reality?
QUOTE]


Yup still gnawing, must have something to do with the hexagram yes cos normally if I don't get something about a line it doesn't bug me as much as this :mischief:

Yes it would be interesting to know how Hilary sees it because so far her take on 21 has been pretty new to me.

Thanks for your perspective Lise :)

Hex 22 should be more relaxing eh, :cool: line 1, take our shoes off, line 2 do our nails, line 3, nice bath, line 4 spot of romance....and so on ..
 

RindaR

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The arrowhead in line four originally might have been of some value - hard to make, easily lost in game that runs away, a piece of luck, though it hurts one's teeth to find it this way....
 

Trojina

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The arrowhead in line four originally might have been of some value - hard to make, easily lost in game that runs away, a piece of luck, though it hurts one's teeth to find it this way....

I like that, makes sense to me. That arrowhead is in the meat.
 

hilary

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For whatever it's worth, I've also always thought that the 'metal arrow' was an arrowhead in the dried meat. It must have been there for months - maybe you're finding something you'd thought lost. I think it's a good thing to find: you can re-use it to catch yourself a fresh meal. By the way, there are two lines about gaining metal from your gnawing. Change them both, and 21 becomes 42.

I'm sure we must be missing umpteen layers of significance here - things Brad or Denis Mair might know about if anyone does. What's the significance of a metal arrowhead, as opposed to a mundane, everyday flint one. Do you use it in ceremonial hunts? When do you eat an animal you shot with a bronze arrowhead? Come to that, when do you eat dried meat? Are you on a journey, are times hard, or does this have some ceremonial significance? Anyone?

And Rosada, I wish you good teeth and much success.
 

getojack

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I like that, makes sense to me. That arrowhead is in the meat.

I thought we were talking about finding or acquiring arrows. Finding arrows in meat after breaking through the bone. Getting to the meat of the situation and acquiring those arrows as a sign of recognition. That recognition could come from outside the meat or from within. Isn't the recognition bestowed upon you by others always symbolic of the inner achievement anyway?
 

Trojina

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I thought we were talking about finding or acquiring arrows. Finding arrows in meat after breaking through the bone. Getting to the meat of the situation and acquiring those arrows as a sign of recognition. That recognition could come from outside the meat or from within. Isn't the recognition bestowed upon you by others always symbolic of the inner achievement anyway?

I see what you're saying, that is doesn't make much difference from where the reward/recogniton, inner or outer comes from, kind of - but not sure I agree - still chewing.

I don't agree recognition bestowed by others is always symbolic of inner achievement though, I actually see them pretty much at odds. Whats rewarded in the world as 'achievement' does not necessarily have any inner value at all IMO. Thats why I was struggling with making the distinction I think, wanting to pinpoint the nature of this 'reward'.

I like Hilarys idea that the arrow could be something you lost, or something you could use again.
 

Trojina

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I think like I said the words 'receiving' and 'finding' imply very different things to me so I may be focusing too much on that, I guess 'acquiring' is better.

Imagine you are eating your christmas pudding and you bite into the sixpence, would you say you you received it or found it. Receiving always implies it is given by another, finding is more accidental, just part of the biting process. I'm just trying to eliminate the other who gives something as reward, the reward is coming of itself just through the biting process. Maybe that makes no difference to some but makes a difference to me :mischief:

Hilary bought up why is the meat dried ? I thought it just signified an old tough problem but I doubt thats all there is to it, hmm
 
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lightofreason

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Rosada, sorry for being 'early' on 21.5 but we have done 21.4 and I just did 21.5 for another thread and so thought to kill two birds with one stone:

IC+ 21.5

Line 5
"Making judgement requires good knowledge of the facts and being wary of possible bias. The middle path is followed."

The focus in 21 overall is on issues of deviating. (see the current memorising IC thread covering 21) - the line position (5) is controlled by hex 8 and its focus on a central passive figure that attracts - i.e. the king/court. IN this position one needs to listen to all sides prior to making a judgement less that judgement 'deviates' from 'acceptable' range of options - IOW the 'good' king stays on a middle path since it allows for dynamics in dealing with situations - too left or too right, too ideal, and issues develop where once a decision is made it is hard to replace!

The particular 'change' of 21.5 is "with/from problem solving comes disentangling (25)." - an assessment of a situation is made free of consideration of consequence (and so no consideration of any personal benefits or not, the decision is thus 'true')
 
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bruce_g

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I've known a fair share of hunters, including bow hunters, and none would think of serving up their kill with an arrow or arrowhead still embedded in the meat.

(Though I have bitten down on overlooked buckshot or two in a goose or duck before - owie!)
 
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bruce_g

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Trojan, I don't it's important who provides the reward. I think what matters here is how the reward is gotten, which in line 4 is through tenacity and sharp teeth.

Examples might be:

A student does an all nighter, cramming for a final exam, and Aces it.

A salesperson hangs in with a prospect to close the deal, and reaches their sales goal.

A bunch of crazy Yijingers tear line 4 to pieces, and reach a satisfying conclusion. :D
 
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RindaR

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Drying meat is an ancient way of preserving it. Makes it tough, yet keeps the nutritional value...
 
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lightofreason

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The overall theme in 21 covers problem solving to avoid 'deviation' and the association is with the non-deviation of the arrow, it hits its target precisely; the metaphor of a golden arrow is like that of a silver bullet; solves all problems, cuts through soft flesh to the bone (all about precision in firing such an arrow).

The faith in such is associated with the William Tell story and the firing of the arrow to split the apple placed on his son's head.

IOW the focus on deviations comes with (a) a weapon to deal with such and (b) someone capable to use such a weapon.

The significance of the METAL head covers (a) five phase focus on metal means a realm covering issues of exchange (b) the making of metal means a sophistcated development environment, knowledgable etc.

Fire in the top position represents guidance doubled and so a focus on formal direction setting, an ideology. The emphasis on direction, and issues of deviating, is covered here with the focus on the 'new' the moment of 'enlightenment' from which follows awareness of what is possible - the emphasis is to not deviate (21 shares space with 51 where 51 covers the general, 21 the particular) but also not be too rigid (21.5 covers flexibility through listening to all 'guides'/ideologies etc)

Chris.
 
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getojack

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21.5 is pretty straightforward. Find the path, the middle way, and you'll find gold. Straying from the path could be dangerous.
 
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bruce_g

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21.5 is pretty straightforward. Find the path, the middle way, and you'll find gold. Straying from the path could be dangerous.

That's true. Gold is the mean or middle way. Making a decision or judgment would be clear and fair from this place.
 

Sparhawk

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I've been thinking about this 21.4 and the arrow heads. If I'm not mistaken, the same way in antiquity they had coins in the shape of knives (see below), it occurs to me that It is possible that the meaning of the "arrow heads" within the context of the line could be "currency".

A few years ago I uploaded the following scans to the Midaughter list that explains a little about Chinese coins.

coins1.jpg

coins2.jpg

coins3.jpg


Luis
 
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bruce_g

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Luis, interesting. That also is reflected in Brad's "Securing funding and arrows".

We're so used to this worthless paper we call money, we've lost sight of wampum.
 

rosada

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21.6
Nine at the top means:
His neck is fastened in the wooden cangue,
So that his ears disappear.
Misfortune.
 
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lightofreason

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IC+ 21

Line 6
"The professional law breaker can no longer distinguish good from bad. He is deaf to the law. Irrespective of the punishment, he is dedicated to darkness."

The ruler of line position 6 is hexagram 23. 23 covers issues of removing the chaff from wheat, here in 21 as a lawbreaker or as a lawenforcer. The sense is on pruning for the future as is there a sense of being the last bastion of order prior to collapse.

If lawbreaking (or for that matter lawmaking) becomes habit so all is corruptable in that through the use of precedence all deviations become part of the 'one', non-deviating path! - IOW we can no longer clearly differentiate 'good' from 'bad', it all becomes context-sensitive and so open to interpretations and the law becomes 'meaningless' (or more so, symmetric, interchangable) and the habitual criminal sees no 'law' as such - as does the habitual lawyer, all is open to discussion, anything goes.

with/from problem-solving (21) comes awareness (51, thunder doubled - we can be over-enlightened!)

Since 21 covers deviation from a path in particular, so 51 covers the path in general, the initial 'enlightenment' that leads to a path opening. Given time the path can become overgrown or too worn down to a level of being dangerous. - all very post-modern! ;-) (and also note the line 6 position of being 'past' the law, transcending it, no longer applies to 'me' - with 23 comes the sense of any tidying up of the law is for one's own benefit, self-interest takes over and so the deviation of all deviations!)
 
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hilary

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At line 1, being immobilised kept you out of trouble, and perhaps offered an opportunity to clear up your perceptions. At line 6 I think there's still determination that everything shall be put right - but no longer the ability to hear what's needed. Or maybe no longer the will. An alternative take on hexagram 51's presence here: the Shock is a very present force; 21.6 can't deal with the change, and uses the experience of punishment to block it out.
 
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bruce_g

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21.6 - grmph! What sometimes frustrates me when receiving this line is, I really can not hear what seems obvious and close, even though I want to. Wanting to hear clearly and to do right isn't enough. Even the best intentions can't override the noise (51) going on inside.
 

getojack

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21.6.... I see it as the temptation of self-congratulatory behavior... saying 'I got mine, so who cares about the rest of the world.' Sticking your head in the sand and blocking anything out that is contrary to your self-interest or your deeply held beliefs.

51.6... When thunder does not affect the individual, but does affect the neighborhood, there is no blame.

Take the opposite of that and you have 'When thunder affects the individual, but does not affect the neighborhood, there is blame.' Seems an apt description of 21.6.
 
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bruce_g

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21.6.... I see it as the temptation of self-congratulatory behavior... saying 'I got mine, so who cares about the rest of the world.' Sticking your head in the sand and blocking anything out that is contrary to your self-interest or your deeply held beliefs.

51.6... When thunder does not affect the individual, but does affect the neighborhood, there is no blame.

Take the opposite of that and you have 'When thunder affects the individual, but does not affect the neighborhood, there is blame.' Seems an apt description of 21.6.

I dunno, Jack. This "thing" doesn't always occur in a selfishly obstinate manner. Behind it is obstinacy, but consciously it seems out of reach to do anything about it. That's why "can not hear" seems more fitting than "will not hear". It is misfortune, but not always blame.

The best remedy I've found for a case of 21.6 is a nap---the baby gets cranky, you know :) . Quieting down the noise, the thunder disappears, and I can hear again. I've observed this one very closely and carefully (as in 20.6) when it happens, and it is sometimes beyond ones will or ability to turn it around until it's run its course; just as a prisoner has to do his time before he is released.
 

getojack

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Well, I wasn't talking about you in particular. :) Perhaps 'blame' is too strong a word. But we are talking about punishments here in 21.6 aren't we? Perhaps 'wearing a cangue destroying the ears' is a fitting punishment for non-action when we should act, just as wearing stocks on your feet is a fitting punishment for acting when we shouldn't? I don't know... just thinking out loud here.
 
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bruce_g

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Well, I wasn't talking about you in particular. :) Perhaps 'blame' is too strong a word. But we are talking about punishments here in 21.6 aren't we? Perhaps 'wearing a cangue destroying the ears' is a fitting punishment for non-action when we should act, just as wearing stocks on your feet is a fitting punishment for acting when we shouldn't? I don't know... just thinking out loud here.

Oh, I hardly think I'm so different from anyone else, lol.

Yes, there is the whole punishment thing in this hexagram, but just as with a pragmatic view of 4, a pragmatic view of 21.6 isn't punitive, so much as it is a natural and cyclical occurrence of nature. I mean, you don't bite through meat to punish it, do you? So, it can mean punitive action, but it can as easily mean a firm or committed decision. or getting to the bottom of things.
 
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Sparhawk

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Perhaps this will give an idea of "cangue"

AllomPunishment.jpg


I like Chris's take on the line. :)

L
 

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