Moving lines and their corresponding lines in the resultant hexagram

[kts]

Apologies if this subject has been covered in a discussion I've missed. I have found that the lines in the resultant hexagram corresponding to the moving lines in the primary one are often relevant to the question. I may have got the idea from Diana ffarington-Hook(?)
Example: Being disappointed at not getting to speak to a certain person when I wanted to, and in a bit of a turmoil, I turned to I Ching for moral support. I remembered the virtues of positive thinking, instead of being weighed down by things, and I Ching gave me great encouragement in this :
Hexagram 14 Great Possession, with moving line at the top (the image of being aided by heaven), and second hexagram H34 Great Strength, which has at the top of it an image of a goat butting against a hedge and getting entangled - what better description of the impatient state I was in! Since picking up the idea of the resultant hexagram being a description of the enquirer's position, I've being reading these corresponding lines more - they seem to make sense. What do other people think?

 

[hilary]

Hello Kts,

Thank you for starting this one off. No, I don't think we have talked about it before here.

There are two ways of approaching this, I think - to look at all the matching lines in the second hexagram, or to look at the matching lines each in their own step of change, ie the hexagram created by changing each line individually. (The two are the same in your example, of course, with just one line changing.)

I think the second option makes more sense - there's a natural link between those two, after all, and you can sometimes see the two lines as 'two sides of the same coin'. Bradford Hatcher has written a big and very good I Ching book, and he dubs these pairs of lines 'fan yao', reverse lines. Here's what he says about them:

"two Yao Ci [line texts] form a resonant pair when they have a reciprocal Zhi Gua [step of change/ relating hexagram] relationship, that is, they meet on a path while moving in opposite directions, with each one coming from the other's destination. This dimension is so neglected that I have had to coin a term for it: Fan Yao (Reverse Line) Pairs. These pairs will often share vocabulary elements, cross-references, subjects, or grammatical tone, voice and mood.
While the neglected importance of these two fundamental dimensions might be considered one of main theses of this dissertation, the proof of this importance must be in that they solve persistent, intractable Yao Ci problems of translation and interpretation, that they obviate much of the need for far-fetched speculation."

LiSe also pays attention to these pairs in her interpretations of the lines: see http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/index.html

BTW, Bradford will send his book by email to anyone who asks out of genuine interest. I won't post his email address here because I don't suppose he wants it harvested for spam - but anyone interested can write to me and I'll put you in touch.

I like your idea of seeing the 'reverse line' as more subjective... will have to think more about that...

 

[candid]

Allow me to speculate on this subject. If the left foot is broken, do we apply the cast to both feet? Each line from 1 to 6 has corresponding relevancy to the question or problem, based solely upon its position 1-6, so naturally there?s going to be a correlation of some sort. Whether the correlation is relevant to ones particular question or problem, is something I?m still skeptical of. I?m certainly not claiming I?m right on how I see this. Its just how I see at this time.

I?ve just read an important reading from last night again, and have gone to corresponding hexagram. I could apply some meaning to it if I try, but it?s a stretch. We know that each line position has certain attributes associated with it. But I must say, after contemplating the corresponding change lines, the only application I?m able to find, is that which is relevant to that line?s position, not to how the relating hexagram's line applies specifically to the question or problem.

Maybe I need new I Ching glasses though.

~Candid

 

[hilary]

mmm, yes, you have a good point here. The 'reverse line' may be part of a larger pattern with the actual line you receive, but what if anything does it do in the reading? I wouldn't expect it to work as advice, I think. Kts had a nice example of what to do versus what not to do, but it won't always come out so neatly!

I haven't yet found a consistent 'role' for the reverse lines - I don't feel I understand quite what they do, or what perspective they give on the situation. But then until a month or so ago I'd never looked at them at all...

Does anyone have better-trained I Ching eyesight for this?

 

[candid]

hmm well, I've just tried applying it again to another reading and realized, it will take some more time to see if things play out as predicted.

I can perceive it as possibly being a longer term change, realizing itself over a longer span of time. Maybe not a cast on both feet.. maybe more like a crutch-support for the right side, since it will be bearing more weight?

We'll see how it plays out.

Tai

 

[kts]

Thank you for all your comments, and the book recommendation (sounds a bit big for me to take on at the moment). I appreciated Candid's point about treating only the foot that's broken - but so much depends on the context of the question. I've got another example (regarding the same situation as in the previous question). I asked how to approach the matter 'maturely', and got H61, Inner Confidence, with moving line 4 (the horse separating from its own kind), which seemed to point to the history of the situation, leading to H38, Opposition/Separation, where the corresponding line 4 talks about two alienated people coming together - this seems to me to be the picture of the solution (time scale unsure).

(Whatever the truth, I'll never know until I manage to apply it!)

 

[kts]

But perhaps I haven't fully appreciated the application of the original moving line yet - I said it pointed to what I thought had already happened, but I haven't left that situation yet.

 

[candid]

Hi Kts,

Just a brief addendum to your "mature approach" question. Its a question which inquires more information about your inner condition and it demonstrates the maturity in which you are approaching the subject. This, in and of itself is admirable. You've also hit on an important point: seeking the truth we?ve already been given.

Perhaps that's why I never sought to expand the original answer I'm given, deeper and deeper, considering more and more meaning, when perhaps, the meaning I needed was right there and now, I may just be confusing the matter even more. This is about bringing order, not adding more confusion.

61-4 changing to 38, is about remaining true to yourself, even if you must separate from the crowd. 61 also contains a strong element of reaching people, regardless of how reachable and receptive they may appear to be. Its a matter of how they are reached.

I relate this inner truth as the kind possessed by Jesus when he turned water into wine. Whether that historically actually happened isn't the point. Even as a story, it demonstrates the real power of Inner Truth. 61 says, pigs and fishes are influenced by this power. So was Jesus able to exercise this same inner truth by influencing the physical element of water to transform into wine.

Line 4 is obviously about holding onto to this inner truth, even though you part ways "with the rest of the pack." You refuse to take part in factionalism or exclusive party interests.

38 isn't only about separation caused by opposition. It also provides a bigger picture of the whole phenomenon, thereby putting it into the natural order of things.

The following is from something I'm working on. I share it here because it so directly applies to this issue of 38 (Opposition):

Our world exists due to the constant interplay of two polar opposites. Magnetism is energy with draws opposites together, and can also push them away when the polarity of one of the two is reversed. We?ve all been fascinated at this invisible energy, at some point in our life, while toying with two simple magnets. Turn them one way, and they snap together. Reverse one side, and they push away or repel one another.

Now, let?s apply that simple phenomenon to a male/female relationship. When each opposite is faced a certain way, magnetism draws them together. If the polarity changes on either side, they repel. One creates unity among the opposites, the other causes a splitting apart.

(end)


Opposition, when viewed this way, becomes a fact of life. Its how things just are, how they operate. The polarity will again shift, to attract toward each other, or it will go its own way. In either case, your Inner Truth knows what's best and its safe to follow it.

This is a condition of the time and it will pass. What you choose to do during this time will create your new condition. There is only so much we can know about this new condition. All we can do is make the most of our present one, which will construct our new one.


~Candid

 

[willow]

To me, it seems that the 64 hexagrams are all connected - you can get anywhere from anywhere else, if you follow out a variety of approaches to permutation. Sort of like a big spider web - touch one spot, and to some degree, everything else vibrates.

What I'm learning about the intent of the divining experience, is that it 1) catalyzes my recognition of my personal present moment (or moment of choice, or power to choose), and 2) helps me to understand the connexions between the individual and the universal (small self and large self).

So far, for my own experience, the Primary and Relating and lines usually enhance #1 (power to choose), and all the other stuff enhances #2 (deeper understanding of the universal).

With too much focus on the other stuff, I end up loosing touch with the moment of choice. But I recognize this does not hold for everyone. For example, Mister Wu did some amazing clarifying/intensifying with layer after layer of associational jumps back in "What waits in the hearafter."