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my romantic outlook? 53.3.4>12

elizabeth

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how does this look for my romantic outlook? 53.3.4>12

I am trying to understand how much positivity is in hex 53. I understand it may be related to courting or relationships, with the mention of the geese, and I read the threads on it. "The Marrying woman waits for her man to act. Without waiting the tremendous gradualness of 53 cannot be. The journey is so gradual it is easy to imagine zero progress."

DOes anyone have experience with line 4 as a positive line?
 

icastes

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For women, 53 is very good for romance. Line four is more about waiting for the right time and the right man. However, the real problem here is 12 which in love is one-sided, while in marriage incompatible. Hence, I would take this sequence to mean that if you don't wait for the right man and the right time, you will have a failed love affair or marriage. (Remember that love and marriage are two different things in ancient China.)
 

elizabeth

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Hm this is strange, almost contradictory, as if the 12 cancels out the 53, no?

If it is saying 53 is good for romance but you have to wait for the right time...Ok that makes sense. Wait for the right man...sounds negative (bc there's someone now who i am wondering about.) But regardless: it sounds then like 12 is bad for BOTH love and marriage - one-sided, failed or just lack of love. THat's no good.
 

Tohpol

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Hm this is strange, almost contradictory, as if the 12 cancels out the 53, no?

If it is saying 53 is good for romance but you have to wait for the right time...Ok that makes sense. Wait for the right man...sounds negative (bc there's someone now who i am wondering about.) But regardless: it sounds then like 12 is bad for BOTH love and marriage - one-sided, failed or just lack of love. THat's no good.


Try not to think of the Hexagrams as "positive" or "negative" it tends to create diversions and illusions as to the core meaning.

What your Yi-Self is saying here is that the process is slow but sure. Waiting yes, but gradual progress. The marriage symbolism is not for nothing but you do have to be patient. That patience is partly about developing principles, qualities and attributes in yourself that will come to fruition when....the time is right. When that happens no angst or force will be necessary - it'll just happen.

12 is simply the background Hexagram from which the process of 53 emerges. In others words, this is what will be left behind if you stay true to the meaning of 53.
 

themis

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Yippiee ... Elizabeth's gonna tie the knot, one of these bright, bold, beautiful days :D
 

elizabeth

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Ha ha, Themis well it depends on just how gradual 53 is. If it's as gradual as it seems, i may no longer be walking by the time it happens ... :confused:
 

themis

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Well ... I'd say gradual could take between a few months and approx. 2 years, but if it takes a
bit longer than that surely it'll be safer and more rewarding, gratifying, etc. than ending up
with Mr. Impossible/Mr. Wrong within 12 moths or less ! Of course you'll be walking ! Just wait
till you get to my age, retirement is due in a couple of years ... lotsa senior citizens are very
fit.
 

elizabeth

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Two years I can deal with. A few months would be HEAVEN. Even just 12 months would be fantastic!

(yes ive met many Mr Wrongs. You would think I'd be done with them by now...!!)

And with all due respect to Senior Citizens, just do not want to have to wait til that age to find true love. I dont think i have the strength ot wait that long truth be told...!
 

Trojina

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I see it as against the backdrop of hex 12...where nothing much is going on and theres a basic internal disconnect in the whole area of 'love' within you you manage to make some gradual progress.

I note noone mentioned 53.3 yet which is about someone not fulfilling promises, abandoning caring..In mundane terms I tend to findits often someone just not following through on promises......which has been your expereince to a degree, not the promises but the sense of things not following through when expected

but 53.4 shows a temporary but useful respite, a place to settle a while, maybe a kind of interim relationship

I think you, everyone is in a process of love...all the time, whether you are with someone or not. Love doesn't just stop when you are by yourself and start when a man who fits the bill turns up. I say this as I think the answer shows your process...and it ain't easy looking at the hex 12 and the 53.3 and 53.4. but its still progress and it can't be rushed....because you can't hurry love...but your're on your way
 
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elizabeth

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Thanks Trojan, that was really nice to read. :)

On some level I realize that and agree with you -- ie love is inside me, not something to either find outside or find in someone else. But I know you know what i mean..that longing to be able to actually give the love and not just feel it inside...to give it to someone who deserves it and appreciates you for who you are. Yeah it's a process, of patience more than anything else.

Interesting what you said about not following thru with line 3. For sure that fits, sadly.

I am hoping the line 4 may mean more than just a temporary break (I have lots of time for temporary breaks!) I would love it to mean an interim healing experience that includes another actual human being and heart...But what we want isnt wahat we get, i know that. I am hopeful, a tiny bit, that maybe in a few years I can have love in my life in the form of a person, that would be a real dream come true.
 

themis

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Actually, I brushed 53.3 aside as it's not that line which determines the outcome, and you've had
so many discouraging readings/lines until recently. In my book 53.3. is about a husband/man who's been disciplined, leaves on an assignment/expedition and does not return. (Whereas line 53.5 is about a neglected wife for whom things work out eventually). Both lines can apply to both genders,
depending on the circumstances. It's line 4 that has the final say as to how things will evolve. Line 4
doesn't imply it'll be of short/limited duration, unless you take the description word for word. You
could tie that knot and have one or two ... or three lil lillylets you mentioned you'd envisaged
having last year. Just as well Trojan's mention of line 54.4 doesn't apply ... that's a case where
'converting maidenhood' has 'overrun the term' and the 'Comments: To overruning the term belongs
purpose. Possessing awaiting and also moving indeed.' may seem encouraging however, there too,
one cannot assume every word applies to one and all.
 

Trojina

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Actually, I brushed 53.3 aside as it's not that line which determines the outcome, and you've had
so many discouraging readings/lines until recently. In my book 53.3. is about a husband/man who's been disciplined, leaves on an assignment/expedition and does not return. (Whereas line 53.5 is about a neglected wife for whom things work out eventually). Both lines can apply to both genders,
depending on the circumstances. It's line 4 that has the final say as to how things will evolve. Line 4
doesn't imply it'll be of short/limited duration, unless you take the description word for word. You
could tie that knot and have one or two ... or three lil lillylets you mentioned you'd envisaged
having last year. Just as well Trojan's mention of line 54.4 doesn't apply ... that's a case where
'converting maidenhood' has 'overrun the term' and the Comments: 'To overruning the term belongs
purpose. Possessing awaiting and also moving indeed.' may seem encouraging however, there too,
one cannot assume every word applies to one and all.

Oh 54.4 was a typo...I meant 53.4...of course 54.4 was not cast so has nothing to do with it


I don't think any reading is in itself 'discouraging'..its only discouraging if you have a fixed determined attitude you have to have what you want the way you want it...and then you will feel disapointed in your answer.


53 indicates to me Elizabeth is in the midst of a process that may take some time...part of that process for whatever reason involved being let down, others not following through.(53.3) 53.4 shows some respite from that whole pattern i feel...and then at some point maybe there will come the 53.5. :)

I see it that in this part of her life shes on a path with stages she has to go through, theres never shortcuts with 53. Its about so much more than getting married to a man...its all part of her life journey

I don't think a line can be dismissed just because it came first otherwise she wouldn't have cast it...but hopefully 53.3 is a current/passing influence , and 53.4 shows a break from that.

She might need some sort of break (53.4) to heal from all the 53.3ing No use going into a full on long term relationship 'injured' so to speak

Hilarys commentary on 53.4 in her book is "This is not a ocmfortable perch; it will feel awkward, uncomfortable and hard to balance. But you do need to stop here for a while, concentrating on whats possible for now and not attempting to push on any further. Treat this as a temporary refuge not a permanent place to stay" Doesn't have to mean next relationship will be impermanent as such but could mean in its form it feels less comfortable or temporary at first. It is a necessary stage though

Anyway I'm sure with such a deep wish as this it will come true.
 
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themis

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"...and then at some point maybe there will come the 53.5. :)"

Would be nice to have 53.6 follow 53.4. Line 53.4 can really resolve a dilemma though, romantic or not.
 

elizabeth

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Wow - I step away and the thread progresses overnight. This is really helpful everyone. I really appreciate all of your commentary because it certainly gives me pause for thought.

Topal I want to comment on your point, but first -- Trojan, I found myself wondering if 53.3 is not *now* but if it started last spring at this time (you will recall that horrible saga I am sure). In a way I hope that's the case bc 1) it is behind me and 2) it would imply(i think) that i'm closer to 53.4 at this point. If 53.3 is just beginning it sounds like whatever is currently going on is going to go (further) south before I hit 53.4 (which would again be really disappointing).
This in any case:
She might need some sort of break (53.4) to heal from all the 53.3ing No use going into a full on long term relationship 'injured' so to speak
-- makes perfect sense.

Topal - isn't that Buddhist, let go of all desire, it is an illusion, or something? But if i no longer want it, then getting it will be kind of pointless, bc it wont matter at that point... (??)
 

Tohpol

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Topal - isn't that Buddhist, let go of all desire, it is an illusion, or something? But if i no longer want it, then getting it will be kind of pointless, bc it wont matter at that point... (??)

My point of view:

There is nothing wrong with Desire! But how the energy of desire is channelled and directed is key.


You can't let go of desire as a drive but you can let go of the desire to wanting to control the situation which is what this is about. That is distorted desire. It's like saying to the wonderfully intricate nature of reality and the Universe "I don't trust you but I trust myself to force it into being". Therefore, cicrumstances are not going to respond because the correct resonance hasn't been created within you.

The goal is not some nilistic loss of libido or the idea of romantic love but to re-train your mind to accept that you are
a) not in control and you need to trust the nature of the Universe to give you what you need (not what you want) To do that you must create conditions within yourself that naturally attract a partner...NATURALLY
b) That anticipation creates a barrier to the potential partner so effort is required to discipline the wild emotions that stir up all this static. Wanting, imagining and feeling peeved that no one is materializing because "you deserve it" all ensure that this potential relationship stays away or arrives much later, as is usually the case.
c) Understanding the fact that "letting go" and "surrendering "is not remotely about being passive or giving up. It is about sending a signal to the Universe that you TRUST it and are willing to do the work on your side. Effort is required to discipline yourself and to know yourself but the effort is directed inwards rather than outwards. d) When you are busy focusing on the present and enjoying life in the present then this makes it easier for those elements needing balance to reorganize themselves.

This will repeat itself again and again until we address the core and monitor how all that frustrated energy is being misdirected.

Take care.
 

chingching

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topal just wanted to say that was a well articulated and thought out post, i'm sure it will be helpful to many readers! :bows:
 

Trojina

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yes I think Topal surpassed himself there :bows:

I wonder if thats something one has to learn experientally though....someone can keep telling you but you can't believe it till you know it for yourself...still worth saying though
 

elizabeth

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Thanks so much topal. I echo what Trojan and chingching just said.

Question --
a) not in control and you need to trust the nature of the Universe to give you what you need (not what you want) To do that you must create conditions within yourself that naturally attract a partner...NATURALLY
b) That anticipation creates a barrier to the potential partner so effort is required to discipline the wild emotions that stir up all this static. Wanting, imagining and feeling peeved that no one is materializing because "you deserve it" all ensure that this potential relationship stays away or arrives much later, as is usually the case.
c) Understanding the fact that "letting go" and "surrendering "is not remotely about being passive or giving up. It is about sending a signal to the Universe that you TRUST it and are willing to do the work on your side. Effort is required to discipline yourself and to know yourself but the effort is directed inwards rather than outwards. d) When you are busy focusing on the present and enjoying life in the present then this makes it easier for those elements needing balance to reorganize themselves.

1) How does one "create those conditions" you mention in part a? Concretely what does that mean?
2) Ok so no anticipation allowed, no imagining or dreaming etc... Although from books I have read we are supposed to imagine life with our life partner and feel "as if" he/she is already there in order to manifest them. So then the difference is to just not add in the "bc i deserve it" part?
3) What is the signal we send out to the Universe that we trust? Can you give an exemple? What sort of effort? (Maybe your answer is in "d" focus on present and enjoy life in the present. However when I did that (the 3-4 yrs prior to this year, where i was focused on work (enjoying work), i did not manifest anyone or meet anyone or date anyone. I was not miserable, i was very engaged but i was not bringing in new people into my life.) So what is the key ?
 

chingching

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elizabeth, I think what trojan said applies to your last post. It needs to be experienced, think on what topal said but you will 'know' it once you have experienced it yourself.
 

elizabeth

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elizabeth, I think what trojan said applies to your last post. It needs to be experienced, think on what topal said but you will 'know' it once you have experienced it yourself.

Well that is bad news. Obviously I haven't experienced it yet. And I dont know how to experince it. But I will know when i do experience it.

One thing is, I dont have the luxury of time waiting and hoping to experience it bc my pain level at this point is too great. I have to do something to fix my self and my life bc i cant go on like this. I *thought* this is the path I was on starting about a year ago. I consciously bought books and started the inner work etc. And: zero.

Here is what I know: you dive into work and work a lot so you dont feel isolated and alone -- you dont meet anyone bc #1 there is no time to and #2 your mind/being is focused on work even if you do.

So then you let go and you say "i'm going to be open to meeting new people." And you go out and join social clubs and try to build a social life, and you go on dating sites, or just general social meetings, you arrange fun things to do. But nothing comes of that. It's fun and enjoyable and you're in the present but there are no tangible results (and no relationships).

So then you realize OK I am doing something wrong here, the focus cannot be at all on "meeting people" and you have to work on yourself first. So you go thru the self affirmations about I am worthy and I am okay and i love myself. You read the books, you do the exercises, you pray, you meditate, you go about your life. You're still working. You still have a social life. But no one shows up when you do that either.

So then you dive back into work figuring you have to divert your focus off yourself and off of any relationships and you're back to not "attracting" anyone due to lack of time and lack of open vibes.

So i know there is smthing i'm missing here but i dont *get it*. And i dont know how to get it, in order to get it, so that i can manifest it. Does that make sense?

It sounds like "when you experience it you will know and then you will have it." But there's nothing I can do, else, to get to that point. And obviously, once i'm at that point, i wont be asking questions on the Yi board because I will be elatedly happy for something I"ve longed for for 37 yrs finally coming true.

Frustratedly yours,
E.
 
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goddessliss

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Elizabeth - my heart truly goes out to you.
Basically you have to stop trying 'to do' anything about anything and what ever is happening is what is meant to be happening.
The only thing you really can do if anything at all, is live in a place of Acceptance. x
 

chingching

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oh look I understand your frustration.

And i dont know how to get it, in order to get it, so that i can manifest it. Does that make sense?

This is the point topal was making, you are still looking outside of yourself for answers, what can i do what can i do.

It seems confusing to not 'do' anything, but rather to let go and to be. Not only because that brings with it a sense of 'being out of control' but also there are a lot of people who dont have to work at this at all.

I know women who set out to find partners and have the whole picture in their head, from first date to marriage to kids (culturally the biggest no no for women) and they get the guy. I know men who cant even tie their shoelaces and they have a fantastic relationship (with someone who does it all for them). I could go on, not everyone has to be whole and trusting of the universe to land a good relationship... its not their path, and usually their troubles are in other areas.

I think at 37 you have different physcological dynamics than a 20 year old too. At a younger age you wouldn't even be aware of all of this.

I Ching can only be helpful I think, but a lot of your responses to your readings seem to go round in circles.

The insight you need will come from you in the end, and it will be felt... in that way it will be experienced.

I hope you find some inner peace.
 

elizabeth

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Elizabeth - my heart truly goes out to you.
Basically you have to stop trying 'to do' anything about anything and what ever is happening is what is meant to be happening.
The only thing you really can do if anything at all, is live in a place of Acceptance. x

Well do nothing... i was doing nothing for at least 30 yrs of my life, which gets back to what chingching just said: some people it falls in their lap with no effort. My sister in law is that way. She looks at me and doesnt get it bc she set her jaw and got her man and they're happy goddarnit. But she says i am smarter/prettier/sweeter etc, any man would be lucky etc etc etc...and yet nothing. I have no one.

So yes, I realize that most people (i would argue at least 70% of the world population) who have life mates do *not* have to go thru this process. I just dont know any single human being (in person at least) who has gone thru it. Certainly not among my family or friends. And that's frustrating, discouraging and depressing at once.

I appreciate the advice though bc honestly i keep looking for answers, what to do (or ikn this case, NOT do) and keep hitting the wall : :brickwall::duh:
 
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goddessliss

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I don't know anyone in person either, Elizabeth who has gone through the hell and back I have been through.
What I do believe though that the people on this site are only capable of the wisdom and insight they give because the have lived a 'bloody' life of some sort too.
The more I work with what they give me the more I sort and progress in my life.
I don't always like what they say but hey, the truth is the truth...x
 

elizabeth

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Goddessliss, I totally agree. The wisdom/experience/insight of the people on this forum is far beyond what that I encounter in real life..and no doubt comes from their own painful experiences. That is very visible to me too.
 

chingching

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I know plenty of people who have gone / are going through this same process, men too... and they find it just as painful. A friend of mine found someone at the age of 39 had two kids with him is now 45 and he has gone off with another women, and she is not okay with that but has decided to stay in the relationship anyway. He comes home late at night to pick up clean clothes and leaves to go to the other women whilst she is alseep in bed, when i heard this I imagined that she must cry into her pillow, screaming without sound so her kids dont wake. I mean ... its awful and profoundly sad for her.

anyway I came back to post a Rilke poem, you may have already read it , but it suits this thread:

For it is not inertia alone that is responsible for human relationships repeating themselves from case to case, indescribably monotonous and unrenewed: it is shyness before any sort of new, unforeseeable experience with which one does not think oneself able to cope. But only someone who is ready for everything, who excludes nothing, not even the most enigmatical, will live the relation to another as something alive and will himself draw exhaustively from his own existence. For if we think of this existence of the individual as a larger or smaller room, it appears evident that most people learn to know only a corner of their room, a place by the window, a strip of floor on which they walk up and down. Thus they have a certain security. And yet that dangerous insecurity is so much more human which drives the prisoners in Poe's stories to feel out the shapes of their horrible dungeons and not be strangers to the unspeakable terror of their abode.

We, however, are not prisoners. No traps or snares are set about us, and there is nothing which should intimidate or worry us. We are set down in life as in the element to which we best correspond, and over and above this we have through thousands of years of accommodation become so like this life, that when we hold still we are, through a happy mimicry, scarcely to be distinguished from all that surrounds us. We have no reason to mistrust our world, for it is not against us. Has it terrors, they are our terrors; has it abysses, those abuses belong to us; are dangers at hand, we must try to love them. And if only we arrange our life according to that principle which counsels us that we must always hold to the difficult, then that which now still seems to us the most alien will become what we most trust and find most faithful. How should we be able to forget those ancient myths about dragons that at the last moment turn into princesses; perhaps all the dragons of our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us once beautiful and brave. Perhaps everything terrible is in its deepest being something helpless that wants help from us.
 

elizabeth

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Chingching thanks for the link. I have read some Rilke in the past but do not recall haven't seen this one... it does fit, and i especially love the first graf.

In the second half i find myself starting to disagree ("that which now still seems to us the most alien will become what we most trust and find most faithful"). I believe evil remains evil no matter how we relate to it (or if we relate to it). Our job (in my view) is to recognize it and ...learn to avoid it so it doesnt ruin us...

The story of your friend is horrible -- it makes me realize people can feel similar kinds of pain in different circumstances and in her case she has the children to worry about too, on top of the personal misery and heartbreak. Just awful.
 

Tohpol

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1) How does one "create those conditions" you mention in part a? Concretely what does that mean?

It means stop the relentless drive forward to what you consider to be desirable. It means allowing time and emotional healing to take place. It means taking responsibility for your inner work yourself and to absolutely, unequivocally STOP pushing for resolution. Otherwise, if you are in a process of "soul growth", your learning curve will arrive in the form of a shock or shocks.

2) Ok so no anticipation allowed, no imagining or dreaming etc... Although from books I have read we are supposed to imagine life with our life partner and feel "as if" he/she is already there in order to manifest them. So then the difference is to just not add in the "bc i deserve it" part?

I don't think there's anything untoward with thinking your soul mate is out there. No reason to lose that hope. The point is here is to not fixate and fantasize about it. This just shows the Universe that you are missing something essential in yourself, that you dependent and lacking energy of your own to be sovereign. So, in that sense it is actually better to "give up" on that notion that someone is going to arrive. (You are kinda tricking the ego here).

3) What is the signal we send out to the Universe that we trust? Can you give an exemple? What sort of effort? (Maybe your answer is in "d" focus on present and enjoy life in the present. However when I did that (the 3-4 yrs prior to this year, where i was focused on work (enjoying work), i did not manifest anyone or meet anyone or date anyone. I was not miserable, i was very engaged but i was not bringing in new people into my life.) So what is the key ?

Being focused on work and enjoying yourself is one thing but it is not the whole story. There are things you haven't addressed in yourself. You can be enjoying all kinds of things while the essential nature of your programmed self remains untouched and unchanged. Just because you are enjoying yourself and in the moment doesn't automatically mean that everything fits neatly into place within a certain period of time. Learned negative behaviour and perceptions can take a while to alter. And we continually "jump the gun" usually at the point where reality is just about to change for the better... (You can see the soul slapping it's hand across its forehead here...)

I guess one of the key points here is for us to take responsibility for our inner work. Dig deep and discover. Never to late to start.
 

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