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Nuclear / Mutual Hexagrams

surnevs

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My experience over the years concerning nuclear hexagrams is that they mirror or reflects what the I Ching is responding, to example when questioned about something that has to do whit my home, anything, now and then I've had that specific hexagram ( Hex. 37 I've had several times when asking such matters) as nuclear hexagram.
In my danish translation of Stephen Karchers book "The I Ching - plain and simple," he mentions the nuclear hexagram as being a Hidden possibility.

Somehow this is a question and somehow not, as I've had that experience so many times that I'm almost (but not fully) convinced that it could be the case ie that the nuclear hexagram mirror what I Ching is responding on... but the question could as well be: has any other had that experience?
 

IrfanK

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I really got into Karcher's stuff about nuclear trigrams. I liked the idea of grouping hexagrams together according to their shared nuclear hexagram, and then seeing what the underlying theme was for those four hexagrams. Also his thing about the four second-generation nuclear trigrams, which, by some odd, random chance coincidence are 1, 2, 63, 64, the Gates.

And ya, I've also had an experience doing a reading for someone where the nuclear hexagram was 37. The question was related to problems with home repairs, a legal and financial issue -- but with 37, we explored the idea that maybe it was interpersonal issues within the family unit that were the core issue. Hmm. I guess "hidden possibility" works. Although you could also say "unexamined" or "unacknowledged assumptions."
 

surnevs

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One of my doubts could be, that if the nuclear hexagram responds to the inquiry then it would be given beforehand that to example:
hex. 28, 43 and 44 will always find their mirrors, or what I Ching is responding on, in hex. 1. (and thereby the question arises why other hexagrams shouldn't find I Chings response in hex. 1 )
On the other hand, I had so many times seen the nuclear hexagram reflecting my inquiry that it just made me wonder.
But this doesn't hinder that what I Ching reflects also is a hidden possibility...
I appreciate your kind reply!
 

my_key

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I like the nuclear hexagrams and think they can provide good additional insight into a reading.

I have come to see them as the deep energetic inspiration behind the time of the question. I don't think that the nuclear hexagram responds to our enquiry more that our enquiry is responding to the deep calling of the nuclear. This core calling that emanates from the primal flow that comes from and dances through the 'gates' of 1, 2 , 63 and 64.

For me they are almost the reason (the inspirational core power behind) why this situation that you have decided to ask about has come into your world. In the high and low pressures of any energetic field there is a natural ebb and flow. The nuclear energies ebb and flow directing you towards having a choice to experience a 'new way'. The 'new way' in it's essence is Change. It may be a way that has been shown to you before but not accepted or recognised and so the challenge is there to be met again. The gauntlet is thrown down for each of us from the depths of the primal flow: "Is this the time you will accept this change within you?"; "Is this the time that you will learn or understand this wisdom?" The accepting of this challenge, this time could well be the 'Hidden Possibility'.

As an example, maybe the challenge in a situation that has been inspired by a nuclear Hex 40 is one of recognising or finding the ability in ourselves to show compassion and forgiveness. These could well be the 'unacknowledged' or the 'unexamined' that resides within us that is being invited to take up full residence.
 
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surnevs

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It's late here, and I'll try to dive into your reply when being more kind of awake. Thank You! (I mean, just passing through messages and emails before bedtime)
 

surnevs

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And that all of the hexagrams core's ends up in these four hexagrams, the two first and the two last in the whole arrangement could make one suspect that the one who arranged the hexagrams this way, in the so-called king Wen order, had an eye on the nuclear-hexagram-phenomena...
 

surnevs

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Last year I worked with the nuclear hexagrams but in an attempt to fit them into a seasonal Order. I never finished it so the attached file is more like a draft. The four "Gate hexagrams" (1,2,63,64) are placed in column A and the rest as briefly described. Maybe if I got time I'll continue this project. And I admit, it's a bit far out.....
 

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my_key

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And that all of the hexagrams core's ends up in these four hexagrams, the two first and the two last in the whole arrangement could make one suspect that the one who arranged the hexagrams this way, in the so-called king Wen order, had an eye on the nuclear-hexagram-phenomena...
The deeper energies of any situation pass through those 4 gates no matter what. Whether King Wen had one eye on these gates or anything else when he arranged the sequence I think matters not.

All of the nuclear hexagrams - lower, middle or higher - are a function of the line progressions in each hexagram and I can't see how the hexagram sequence has any influence on the formation of any nuclear hexagram.
 

surnevs

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Neither can I. My post #6 were more like if this is an utter coincidence (that all of the nuclear/mutual/interlocking hexagrams ends up in those four hexagrams) "what a coincidence !". I remember having seen Harmen Meskers video about nuclear hexagrams and where he hasn't been able to track the use of nuclear hexagrams that far back as to the time of king Wen (don't remember how far he traced them back in time)
 

surnevs

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core of the core  02.jpg
The Core hexagrams. Hex. 1 is the core of 43,28,44. Hex. 43 is the core of 32,34,50,14 etc. The numbering is those according to the King Wan arrangement.
(Se attachment - which is actually a Draft - on posting #7 for the special system in the numbering)
 
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surnevs

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Feel free to download and print this Hexagram Guide with the Core hexagrams in parenthesis.
Cover med kerneheksagrammerne.jpg Observe the symmetry from the Ch'ien-row down to the Sun-row vertically and to the Tui-row horizontally concerning the order of the Core hexagrams...
01-43-38-54-54-38-43-01
53-39-23-02-02-23-39-53
37-63-27-24-24-27-63-37
44-28-64-40-40-64-28-44
53-39-23-02-02-23-39-53
01-43-38-54-54-38-43-01
___________________________

PS: I'll be pleased, should it had happened that numberings have found their wrong ways into this scheme, then to be informed. Thank You
Add 0n: Would I publish such a Hexagram-key-Scheme if it weren't right? Off cause not, but my experience from back when I programmed in Basic (Yes, the old programming language from the early eighties) learned me that even how sure I was putting things in the right way still small failures pupped up again and again. And off cause I have checked that the nuclear (Core/Mutual) hexagram belonging to each Hexagram is OK. I have also added the new Hexagram key to my
Journal pdf.
 

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surnevs

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Core of the Core Seasonal Order  FINAL.jpg
The 64 hexagrams arranged in accordance with the Core of the Core order ie
The nuclear hexagrams of the outer ring are those in the middle ring and the nuclear hexagrams of the middle ring are those in the Center.
I=no Yang lines to VII=six Yang lines.
____________________

Any suggestions toward a more logical Order is welcome.




 

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surnevs

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Here I have pointed out the representation of the trigram Ch'ien in upper as lower places, lower places Red arrow and upper places Blue arrow + vice versa the trigram Kün.
Symmetry seems to be broken in two places as seen. Maybe the section Hex. 44 etc. should be interchanged with the section Hex. 28 etc.? Likewise Hex. 24 etc. with Hex. 27 etc. ???

Core of the Core Seasonal Order  FINAL analyze.jpg


I'm not sure Symmetry should play a role yet one could get a suspicion.......
 

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surnevs

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One thing that caught my attention was the partial accordance with the king Wen sequence, namely the numberings in the outer as well as middle left and right column as:
9-10 / 57-58 / 5-6 etc. which isn't the case at all in the outer upper or lower column.

PS: from #10 and onward are not directly associated with the observations/discussions/..... before that, but only my add-on's which I want to share because I find it remarkable. Just mentioned for the sake of order.
 

surnevs

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Framed, in red, also partly a sequence can be seen: 13-14, 31-32, 33-34, 49-50 and vice versa with the other frame below. But from here the sequences seems to follow across the Image like 29 to 30, 61 to 62 etc. to example following the blue dotted lines no symmetric patterns can be observed: 53-54, 55-56, 57-58, 59-60.

Core of the Core Seasonal 2.jpg
 

surnevs

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Symmetry !!! When plotting in the twelve Tidal Guas, first in the above-shown picture (#14) and then in the picture according to the Image on #10 something shows me that nearly the correct Order will be found on Image number C,

A

Core of the Core Seasonal Order 4.jpg

B

Core of the Core Seasonal Order 3 .jpg

C

Core of the Core Seasonal Order .jpg

_____________________

Hex 5 and 57 (Green Left) should possibly be interchanged/alternated as well as Hex 6 and 58 (Yellow Right). Likewise, maybe, also Hex. 36 and 52 (Green Left) and 35, 51 (Yellow Right).

I'm pretty convinced that despite this the Image C is the Order searched for (Symmetry taken for advisement)
 
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surnevs

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% Hex 5/57, Hex. 12/17 and Hex. 35/51, according to the lower Trigram "as Coming" should possible be interchanged... (?)

Plate 11 in Bent Nielsens book * "The Diagram of Interlocking [Trigrams] Preceding Heaven" depicts a Circular variant of "the Core hexagrams" in another order. (On Joel Birocco's Site: ztd1144)

I'll be interested in case any other depictions of this should be available.

PS: To me, this seems to be a never-ending Search


__________________

*) A Companion to Yi Jing Numerology and Cosmology, RoutledgeCurzon, 2003, London
 

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tacrab

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Go to this link for a printable version of Qian Chengzhi's nuclear hexagrams chart, midway down page. This is from Qing dynasty.
 

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surnevs

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Thank You tacrab

I can see that it's been arranged in accordance with Sau Yung's circular and rectangular arrangement on the outer circle and therefrom inwards where I have made an arrangement with hex. 1,2,63&64 in the Center and therefrom outwards.
 
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surnevs

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Core of the Core Seasonal Order 3B.jpg

Concerning Hex. 34/50 and 3/20 Lower Trigrams.....
 

surnevs

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On #17 depiction C shows how the eight Tidal or Month-hexagrams are symmetrically represented.
When plotting in the eight double-trigrams (Fire over Fire, Lake over Lake etc.) shown here with red markings, and the eight Big trigrams (the trigram fire becomes the hexagram number 61, Lake hex. 34 etc.) shown here with blue markings, it seems that a symmetric pattern again is visible:

Core of the Core Seasonal Order 7 .jpg

When reading in "The trigrams of Han - inner structures of the I Ching" * that
"........
The first step would be to note an almost compulsive Chinese desire for symmetry, especially in matters such as the balanced principles of yang and yin........" ** (Though here mentioned in connection with the Order of the 64 hexagrams) I felt an indirect confirmation of the importance of symmetry as to point out some logic in the pattern that could confirm that it was maybe the right pattern (Here, the pattern of this "Core of the Core Mandala") - and, that maybe the changes as a possible alternative shown in #21 will not be necessary.....

*) Steve Moore, The Aquarian Press, G.B. 1989
**) pg. 192 ibid
 

Plutonian

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This morning in my email this link were present:

https://www.biroco.com/yijing/scan.htm#geomancy

- with the note: "Geomantic figures and nuclear hexagrams
A small addition to the Yijing Dao site that I think is quite fascinating
:" from Yijing Dao Update.
The names of some geomantic figures are also very suggestive: Caput Draconis and Cauda Draconis mean the Head and the Tail of the Dragon, namely, Qian and Kun. Via and Populus are alternative denominations of Qian and Kun as well. Carcer and Coniunctio are resemblant to Kan and Li. Kan, 6th line, actually mentions a Prison (Carcer), while Li is considered to mean what is Adherent (Coniunctio).
It is known that there was a time, when the Fang Shi worked with Tetragrams. A similar form of divination was known in middle east as Ilm e ramal (video), and by the Yorubas, according to this article. In the video we see that the guy, even though i can't understand a word of what he's saying, works with the numbers 2 and 3, same as in the Yi Jing. Geomancy was developed in Europe, mainly, as far as I know, by Fludd, Paracelsus and Agrippa. They added a lot of astrological considerations (always varying from one author to another), but they preserved the names, which are a symbollical treasure of meaning.
I strongly believe that systems fuse between eachother, and that by observing the lines it is possible to extract meaning. One has to consider the position and nature of the lines, and we have different sorts of interaction. The lesser the quantity of lines, the simpler its understanding and broader its application. From 2 lines, we go to 4 bigrams. These four bigrams are expressed, later on in the book, by hexagrams 1, 2, 63 and 64. The 16 tetragrams, which are not mentioned in the book, can be studied through this form of geomancy. The thing is, Yi Jing stops at trigrams, and duplicates them as a whole. We only add one line at a time when we go from the yin - yang, to the si xiang (four figures), and from there to the ba gua.
Also, many authors consider the 1st and 6th line to be "out of the main situation". This means that the core situation is actually expressed by those tetragrams, and could also explain why the fangshi chose to work with four lines instead of six.
 
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surnevs

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Hi Plutonian,

Thank You. When You mentioned "Draconis", Caput/Cauda, it pointed almost literary toward a book * I began to read a while ago (and still reading, meaning I can't draw conclusions) where it's suggested that actually the first hexagram and the second hexagram can be found to have had connections with the Starconstellation Dragon.
From the book:
".................... We will ignore the layers of metaphysical commentary in the Book of Changes
that have accumulated through the ages around the first hexagram qian
and simply consider the earliest stratum of the text, the individual line texts
associated with the lines of the hexagram:
(1) hidden Dragon: do no work
(2) Dragon appearing in the fields
(3) [unrelated]
(4) perhaps bounding in the void
(5) soaring Dragon in the sky
(6) recalcitrant Dragon: there is regret
And about the lines collectively, “a flock of Dragons with no head: auspicious.”
Now, though generally ignored in metaphysical commentaries, it was never
a secret that these line texts of hexagram qian refer to the seasonal appearance
of the Cerulean Dragon, a huge constellation comprising stars from Virgo
through Scorpius (Figure 2.2a). (In what follows, “Dragon” in italics will refer
to the constellation, and “dragon” to the iconic creature.) Wen Yiduo was
the first modern Chinese scholar to elaborate on the connection in detail. As
Wen says, “when ancient texts mention ‘dragon,’ most often they are referring
to the Dragon constellation”; numerous other scholars have also taken up the
seasonally related astronomy of the hexagram’s line texts.15 My interpretation
of the astronomical significance of the line texts differs from all the others in
crucial respects, particularly in providing an account of seasonal role of both
Celestial Dragons during the yin and yang portions of the year, which had been
previously ignored
. ........................." **

Well, if I'm not remembering wrong You should be able to search for it on academia.edu and find a more comprehensive part of this book. As mentioned, I can't draw any conclusions, just point out what your initial mention here reminded me of...

It's late here and I will take a second look at your posting later.

______________________

*) 'Astrology and Cosmology in Early China', David W. Pankenier, Cambridge University Press, 2013
**) ibid. pg. 44
 

surnevs

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Hi Plutonian, except for Robert Fludd whom I only got peripherical knowledge about when practising music when young, very interesting personality indeed, I can't recognize things to be commented on here. But thank You for the links!
To be honest I can't agree that the Bottom and TopLines are to be considered out of the main situation
- well, the Core of the Hexagram these four lines are but "without the egg white no egg yolk" ( :unsure: freely associated ) - any way your meaning reaches, without doubt, farther, but this is beyond my area for commentaries...
 

Plutonian

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Hi sur!
I will check out the text you shared.
About the authors, they are all mainly of the XVI century, approx.
on Agrippa; on Paracelsus.
What I meant, is that they are the ones that mostly worked upon the 16 Geomantic Figures.
I do have a good source to share various associated meanings for each of the Figures, if you're interested I can make a thread to share them.

About the 1st and 6th line, well, it depends on what your interpretation method is. But I offer here some cites about what I want to say (if needed, I'll cite the original text from my books in Spanish, and google translate below):

"There is difficulty in knowing (the significance of) the first line, while to know that of the topmost line is easy; - they form the beginning and the end (of the diagram)."
Xi Ci II, Chapter IX. The Lines, §.2; Legge Translation
"La primera y la última línea son el comienzo y el final de un cuerpo hexagramático, el antes y el después de un asunto."
Wang Bi, Observaciones generales sobre el Libro de los Cambios; Yijing, El Libro de los Cambios, Jordi Vilá & Albert Galvany

"The first and last lines are the beginning and final of a hexagramatic body, the before and the after of a matter."
"La primera línea apunta hacia el estado inicial de una evolución que todavía no se ha afirmado; la última hace el balance de la misma asignándole un resultado."
François Jullien, Figures de l'immanence, chap. 4; based on the text of Wang Fu Zhi


"The first line points towards the initial state of an evolution that has not het affirmed itself; the last one makes the balance of (the evolution) assigning it a result."
To me, the first and last line are somehow transpersonal. The first line is potential, it could be anything, it is underground, or in its initial states ("hidden dragon"; "treading on hoarfrost"). The sixth line is usually considered as excessive ("arrogant dragon"; "dragons fighting"). So, the core, the main activity, according to this viewpoint, would be developed between the 2nd and 5th line.

To be honest I can't agree that the Bottom and TopLines are to be considered out of the main situation
Think about how society sees kids and elders: kids are "out" of the world of the "grown ups" because they are too young to understand or participate in it, and the elders are "out" of the world because they are considered to be too old to participate. Now, two things: first, there are necessary exceptions to this rule; and second: both stadiums, the first and sixth lines, are essential and of utmost importance, yet they don't seem to participate in the core movement of the hexagram as actively as lines 2, 3, 4 and 5.

But, again, this is only a theory, I'm not affirming it. I guess I'm just being the Devil's lawyer:lol:

I'll leave some links for you to check out if you are interested in digging deeper in the Geomancy stuff.
Agrippa on Geomancy
About Islamic Geomancy
The 32 Prophecies of Paracelsus (there is a deck of cards that associates each one of the prophecies with a certain geomantic figure, having 16 yin cards and 16 yang cards. But I don't really know the facticity of that syncretism)
About Fludds Geomancy
 

surnevs

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Hi sur!
I will check out the text you shared.
About the authors, they are all mainly of the XVI century, approx.
on Agrippa; on Paracelsus.
What I meant, is that they are the ones that mostly worked upon the 16 Geomantic Figures.
I do have a good source to share various associated meanings for each of the Figures, if you're interested I can make a thread to share them.

About the 1st and 6th line, well, it depends on what your interpretation method is. But I offer here some cites about what I want to say (if needed, I'll cite the original text from my books in Spanish, and google translate below):




To me, the first and last line are somehow transpersonal. The first line is potential, it could be anything, it is underground, or in its initial states ("hidden dragon"; "treading on hoarfrost"). The sixth line is usually considered as excessive ("arrogant dragon"; "dragons fighting"). So, the core, the main activity, according to this viewpoint, would be developed between the 2nd and 5th line.


Think about how society sees kids and elders: kids are "out" of the world of the "grown ups" because they are too young to understand or participate in it, and the elders are "out" of the world because they are considered to be too old to participate. Now, two things: first, there are necessary exceptions to this rule; and second: both stadiums, the first and sixth lines, are essential and of utmost importance, yet they don't seem to participate in the core movement of the hexagram as actively as lines 2, 3, 4 and 5.

But, again, this is only a theory, I'm not affirming it. I guess I'm just being the Devil's lawyer:lol:

I'll leave some links for you to check out if you are interested in digging deeper in the Geomancy stuff.
Agrippa on Geomancy
About Islamic Geomancy
The 32 Prophecies of Paracelsus (there is a deck of cards that associates each one of the prophecies with a certain geomantic figure, having 16 yin cards and 16 yang cards. But I don't really know the facticity of that syncretism)
About Fludds Geomancy
Hi Pluto :D

No matter how absent from here I may seem,
(Time, time, Oh Time!. Capricorn ascending for me) You shall know that I appreciate your replies and your links.
Thanks
 

Plutonian

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Hi Plutonian,

Thank You. When You mentioned "Draconis", Caput/Cauda, it pointed almost literary toward a book * I began to read a while ago (and still reading, meaning I can't draw conclusions) where it's suggested that actually the first hexagram and the second hexagram can be found to have had connections with the Starconstellation Dragon.
From the book:
".................... We will ignore the layers of metaphysical commentary in the Book of Changes
that have accumulated through the ages around the first hexagram qian
and simply consider the earliest stratum of the text, the individual line texts
associated with the lines of the hexagram:
(1) hidden Dragon: do no work
(2) Dragon appearing in the fields
(3) [unrelated]
(4) perhaps bounding in the void
(5) soaring Dragon in the sky
(6) recalcitrant Dragon: there is regret
And about the lines collectively, “a flock of Dragons with no head: auspicious.”
Now, though generally ignored in metaphysical commentaries, it was never
a secret that these line texts of hexagram qian refer to the seasonal appearance
of the Cerulean Dragon, a huge constellation comprising stars from Virgo
through Scorpius (Figure 2.2a). (In what follows, “Dragon” in italics will refer
to the constellation, and “dragon” to the iconic creature.) Wen Yiduo was
the first modern Chinese scholar to elaborate on the connection in detail. As
Wen says, “when ancient texts mention ‘dragon,’ most often they are referring
to the Dragon constellation”; numerous other scholars have also taken up the
seasonally related astronomy of the hexagram’s line texts.15 My interpretation
of the astronomical significance of the line texts differs from all the others in
crucial respects, particularly in providing an account of seasonal role of both
Celestial Dragons during the yin and yang portions of the year, which had been
previously ignored
. ........................." **

Well, if I'm not remembering wrong You should be able to search for it on academia.edu and find a more comprehensive part of this book. As mentioned, I can't draw any conclusions, just point out what your initial mention here reminded me of...

It's late here and I will take a second look at your posting later.

______________________

*) 'Astrology and Cosmology in Early China', David W. Pankenier, Cambridge University Press, 2013
**) ibid. pg. 44
Hi Surnevs! Could I ask you to share the "figure 2.2a" that Pankenier mentions in the quote you shared? Thanks!
 

surnevs

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Hi Surnevs! Could I ask you to share the "figure 2.2a" that Pankenier mentions in the quote you shared? Thanks!
On #24 here there are links to this book and also comment on that maybe You'll find it on Academia.edu for download in pdf.
 

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