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OT: Tarot Cards in Dreams
- Thread starter kestral
- Start date
D
dharma
Guest
Hi Alisa (Everyone),
I've been studying dreams for more than 25 years and it is my opinion that dream interpretation programs, though they could be considered a strictly *fun* pastime are not, by a long shot, accurate.
I played around with the freakydreams interpretation board for a while to see what would come out regarding a few dreams I've come to understand pretty well. One dream in particular had to do with a tarot reading and a method of interpretation that is often used by many. For instance, some of the words selected by the program were interpreted in the wrong context.
ex:--Words like Card: Skill and chance. Playing some sort of game. Troubles ahead. (my dream was refering to "tarot" cards and "interpretative readings" not playing cards/games)
ex:--Words like Time: Irreversible. Continuity. Arrival or departure of feelings. Organizing your inner self. (my dream was refering to "commonality with others", not the linear timing of clocks and sequence)
Many other words that the program should have selected and looked at, that I thought were of major significance, were completely overlooked, like -tarot, -knight of pentacles, -young man, -reference, -storage, -concern, -outcome etc.
Of course, there were some words that the program selected and described to my satisfaction, however, in and a by themselves, they would not have given me the same clarity and understanding had I not already interpreted the dream in a more personalized way. Too much was left out and missing --you know what I mean?
One's personal dream language cannot be stuffed into a "one size, fits all" for simplicity's sake and no matter how much we'd like it to. The messages from our unconscious have more import and substance than a paint-by-numbers parlor game can give them.
I think that we are better off when we take the time and make the effort at deciphering the imagery of our dreams in a direct and personalized way if we really want to understand the messages they contain. This is the only way to come to an honest understanding of the message being presented to us and avoid the confusion of images and symbols being interpreted for us out of their proper context.
Dharma
I've been studying dreams for more than 25 years and it is my opinion that dream interpretation programs, though they could be considered a strictly *fun* pastime are not, by a long shot, accurate.
I played around with the freakydreams interpretation board for a while to see what would come out regarding a few dreams I've come to understand pretty well. One dream in particular had to do with a tarot reading and a method of interpretation that is often used by many. For instance, some of the words selected by the program were interpreted in the wrong context.
ex:--Words like Card: Skill and chance. Playing some sort of game. Troubles ahead. (my dream was refering to "tarot" cards and "interpretative readings" not playing cards/games)
ex:--Words like Time: Irreversible. Continuity. Arrival or departure of feelings. Organizing your inner self. (my dream was refering to "commonality with others", not the linear timing of clocks and sequence)
Many other words that the program should have selected and looked at, that I thought were of major significance, were completely overlooked, like -tarot, -knight of pentacles, -young man, -reference, -storage, -concern, -outcome etc.
Of course, there were some words that the program selected and described to my satisfaction, however, in and a by themselves, they would not have given me the same clarity and understanding had I not already interpreted the dream in a more personalized way. Too much was left out and missing --you know what I mean?
One's personal dream language cannot be stuffed into a "one size, fits all" for simplicity's sake and no matter how much we'd like it to. The messages from our unconscious have more import and substance than a paint-by-numbers parlor game can give them.
I think that we are better off when we take the time and make the effort at deciphering the imagery of our dreams in a direct and personalized way if we really want to understand the messages they contain. This is the only way to come to an honest understanding of the message being presented to us and avoid the confusion of images and symbols being interpreted for us out of their proper context.
Dharma
I agree with you Dharma about doing your own dream interpreting, but there are times when you may not have the foggiest notion what a red, white and blue plane flying upside means so you go to freakydreams to see what it could mean.
There is a lot of symbology in Kestral's dream so I thought freakdreams might help in sorting it all out. Pick out what meanings rings true and leave the rest to self interpretation.
Interpreting dreams on your own can be very frustrating.
There is a lot of symbology in Kestral's dream so I thought freakdreams might help in sorting it all out. Pick out what meanings rings true and leave the rest to self interpretation.
Interpreting dreams on your own can be very frustrating.
hilary
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Well, how do you feel when you think about red, white and blue, and planes, and flying upside down? What do these things remind you of? (And could this be more important than what it reminds the freakydreams people of?
)
The freakydreams setup is fun to play with, though: try entering the text of any especially visual I Ching lines - or of your video instruction manual, depending on mood. Like Dharma, I think it'd be nice if they expanded their database of key words - perhaps they will. It's only a little search script, after all, so let's not be too harsh or expect too much!
Dream interpretation with the I Ching has a long history and is quite an experience...
The freakydreams setup is fun to play with, though: try entering the text of any especially visual I Ching lines - or of your video instruction manual, depending on mood. Like Dharma, I think it'd be nice if they expanded their database of key words - perhaps they will. It's only a little search script, after all, so let's not be too harsh or expect too much!
Dream interpretation with the I Ching has a long history and is quite an experience...
Well, how do you feel when you think about red, white and blue, and planes, and flying upside down? What do these things remind you of? (And could this be more important than what it reminds the freakydreams people of? )
What do I feel when I think about red, white and blue planes flying upside down? Well, the plane was not only red, white and blue, it was stars and striped plane -- the American flag.
At the time of recall I had no idea what it meant. The day I dreamt it was the morning of the 4th of July. Coincidence? Maybe.
Admittedly, I wanted a fast answer. Freakydreams' suggested words were: freedom and independence, and in all honesty those words for me are loaded with meaning and importance, especially at this time in my life. But who knows, had I been my own interpeter, I might never of thought the American flag had anything to do with "freedom" and "independence".
Books, internet, other people are just tools to help with understanding. I would go crazy trying to figure it all out by myself.
What do I feel when I think about red, white and blue planes flying upside down? Well, the plane was not only red, white and blue, it was stars and striped plane -- the American flag.
At the time of recall I had no idea what it meant. The day I dreamt it was the morning of the 4th of July. Coincidence? Maybe.
Admittedly, I wanted a fast answer. Freakydreams' suggested words were: freedom and independence, and in all honesty those words for me are loaded with meaning and importance, especially at this time in my life. But who knows, had I been my own interpeter, I might never of thought the American flag had anything to do with "freedom" and "independence".
Books, internet, other people are just tools to help with understanding. I would go crazy trying to figure it all out by myself.
C
candid
Guest
Hi Alisa,
Its safe to say you?re an American? If so, our media has been drumming warnings into us about an expected terrorist attack on July, 4th, our Independence Day (day of your dream). Its possible that this constant barrage of fear messages didn?t affect your outward emotions as much as one might expect, but dreams are a way of playing and working some of these things out. In some cases, its fear or disruption in our lives.
There?s also the possibly that it reflects how you view our country and government. Its my own opinion that our country is flying upside-down, so if I had that dream, that?s most likely what it would mean to me, but the dream?s symbolic meaning would really depend upon your own individual views on these things.
Take care,
~Candid
Its safe to say you?re an American? If so, our media has been drumming warnings into us about an expected terrorist attack on July, 4th, our Independence Day (day of your dream). Its possible that this constant barrage of fear messages didn?t affect your outward emotions as much as one might expect, but dreams are a way of playing and working some of these things out. In some cases, its fear or disruption in our lives.
There?s also the possibly that it reflects how you view our country and government. Its my own opinion that our country is flying upside-down, so if I had that dream, that?s most likely what it would mean to me, but the dream?s symbolic meaning would really depend upon your own individual views on these things.
Take care,
~Candid
Candid,
Yes, I did consider the dream could be a reflection of my views of our country and government. Lordy be, don't get me started!
I am a true blue heart and soul rebel. It is my religion. ;-) Freedom comes before anything, even before love.
So yes, I have issues with the government, lots of them. I have issues with love too, and the dream reflected that also. I guess I'm trying to find a balance between the two. Right now there is no balance. Freedom rules! ;-)
Yes, I did consider the dream could be a reflection of my views of our country and government. Lordy be, don't get me started!
I am a true blue heart and soul rebel. It is my religion. ;-) Freedom comes before anything, even before love.
So yes, I have issues with the government, lots of them. I have issues with love too, and the dream reflected that also. I guess I'm trying to find a balance between the two. Right now there is no balance. Freedom rules! ;-)
D
dharma
Guest
Hi Alisa,
I understand your reasoning for seeking outside input to help you figure out your dreams. I suppose it's a start to making sense of it all and beginning to build a personal dream dictionary.
I wanted to direct you to a site I found some time ago (w/ a small useful program that helped the dreamer make sense of their dream by posing specific questions) but though I've been looking for it since yesterday, I cannot find it. In my efforts, however, I did find some other useful sites that I've listed at the end for you.
.....
The great Taoist master Chuang Tzu once dreamt that he was a butterfly fluttering here and there. In the dream he had no awareness of his individuality as a person. He was only a butterfly. Suddenly, he awoke and found himself laying there, a person once again. But then he thought to himself, "Was I before a man who dreamt about being a butterfly, or am I now a butterfly who dreams about being a man?"
.....
Making the effort, however frustrating at first, to discover your own dream language and the meanings for the images/symbols that you use to communicate with yourself in your dreams is important because everyone has a different slant on things that are relevant only to them.
Read the differing reactions and interpretations to the Taoist master's dream experience:
"You are who you perceive yourself to be."
"This Zen master had an out-of-body experience, and now isn't sure about his identity."
"When you're a butterfly, there are no worries. You can flutter around without a care in the world. Perhaps this monk is wishing there were not so many responsibilities and barriers in his life."
"Sounds like this guy conforms to what others think of him and allows them to govern his life."
"In my opinion, this is the kind of question asked by people who are struggling with their sense of individuality and self esteem."
"Only you know who you are - and sometimes it takes some soul-searching to find that identity."
"We should be content with who we are. If we try to be someone or something else, we will lose our sense of identity."
"I sometimes wonder whether we really exist as people, or whether we are only dreaming our lives. And if we are dreaming, when and how will we wake up?"
"It would be strange if our life were really part of someone else's dream. Our lives might seem long and tedious, but it would pass in the blink of an eye for that dreaming person."
"This reminds me of a philosophy course I once took. We discussed reality and how we know that we really exist. All I can remember from the course is 'I think therefore I am.'"
"Many times I have awakened from a dream and didn't know, for a moment, what was real and what was the dream."
"Is this really reality? Or are we ALL dreaming this?"
"I think this story has to do with being close to nature, and not forgetting that humans are as much a part of nature as a butterfly. Ultimately, we are all equal and should treat each other as equals."
"This story is a wake-up call for all those preoccupied with materialism and the mundane."
"I think that this Zen master is thinking too much. How can a butterfly dream?"
"This person is schizophrenic, and is having trouble distinguishing reality."
"Dumb! How can he not know whether he is a butterfly or not!?"
"Do butterflies really dream like humans, or is this monk just anthropomorphizing?"
"Why would a man want to be a butterfly, or a butterfly a man?"
"Reality is one's perception of reality, nothing more."
.....
DREAM FAQS
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dreams-faq/part1/preamble.html
http://www.avcweb.com/dreams/faq.htm
Dream Manual and On-line Tutorial
http://inst.santafe.cc.fl.us/~mwehr/L13ConDr.html
For interpretations, a library, a forum, a dream sight gallery, and the first chapter of [her] book, "How To Interpret Your Dreams" (free when you subscribe to her newsletter) go to:
http://www.dream.net.au/
DREAM DICTIONARIES
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/5683/
http://www.petrix.com/dreams/index.html
http://www.swoon.com/dream/
http://www.sleeps.com/dictionary/dictionary.html (this one allows you to ask that a word be added to the dictionary)
DREAM LINKS
http://207.158.202.29/dreams/dream2.htm
http://www.celestialhealing.com/links/dreaminterpretations.html
DREAM INTERPRETATION BOARDS
http://www.frii.com/~tigrnest/wwwboard/wwwboard.htm
http://myenvoy.com/sleepybear/
http://www.north-node.com/nodeorama/index.php (our very own Mick is the moderator)
ANOTHER GOOD DREAM SITE W/ FREE INTUITIVE COURSE
http://www.creativespirit.net/henryreed/index.htm
TOP DREAM BOOKS
http://psychology.about.com/library/gg/aatp012002_bkdream.htm?PM=ss04_psychology
.....
Of course, there are so many more but these are the ones that I have visited in the past and that I am familiar with. I hope this all helps.
Dharma
I understand your reasoning for seeking outside input to help you figure out your dreams. I suppose it's a start to making sense of it all and beginning to build a personal dream dictionary.
I wanted to direct you to a site I found some time ago (w/ a small useful program that helped the dreamer make sense of their dream by posing specific questions) but though I've been looking for it since yesterday, I cannot find it. In my efforts, however, I did find some other useful sites that I've listed at the end for you.
.....
The great Taoist master Chuang Tzu once dreamt that he was a butterfly fluttering here and there. In the dream he had no awareness of his individuality as a person. He was only a butterfly. Suddenly, he awoke and found himself laying there, a person once again. But then he thought to himself, "Was I before a man who dreamt about being a butterfly, or am I now a butterfly who dreams about being a man?"
.....
Making the effort, however frustrating at first, to discover your own dream language and the meanings for the images/symbols that you use to communicate with yourself in your dreams is important because everyone has a different slant on things that are relevant only to them.
Read the differing reactions and interpretations to the Taoist master's dream experience:
"You are who you perceive yourself to be."
"This Zen master had an out-of-body experience, and now isn't sure about his identity."
"When you're a butterfly, there are no worries. You can flutter around without a care in the world. Perhaps this monk is wishing there were not so many responsibilities and barriers in his life."
"Sounds like this guy conforms to what others think of him and allows them to govern his life."
"In my opinion, this is the kind of question asked by people who are struggling with their sense of individuality and self esteem."
"Only you know who you are - and sometimes it takes some soul-searching to find that identity."
"We should be content with who we are. If we try to be someone or something else, we will lose our sense of identity."
"I sometimes wonder whether we really exist as people, or whether we are only dreaming our lives. And if we are dreaming, when and how will we wake up?"
"It would be strange if our life were really part of someone else's dream. Our lives might seem long and tedious, but it would pass in the blink of an eye for that dreaming person."
"This reminds me of a philosophy course I once took. We discussed reality and how we know that we really exist. All I can remember from the course is 'I think therefore I am.'"
"Many times I have awakened from a dream and didn't know, for a moment, what was real and what was the dream."
"Is this really reality? Or are we ALL dreaming this?"
"I think this story has to do with being close to nature, and not forgetting that humans are as much a part of nature as a butterfly. Ultimately, we are all equal and should treat each other as equals."
"This story is a wake-up call for all those preoccupied with materialism and the mundane."
"I think that this Zen master is thinking too much. How can a butterfly dream?"
"This person is schizophrenic, and is having trouble distinguishing reality."
"Dumb! How can he not know whether he is a butterfly or not!?"
"Do butterflies really dream like humans, or is this monk just anthropomorphizing?"
"Why would a man want to be a butterfly, or a butterfly a man?"
"Reality is one's perception of reality, nothing more."
.....
DREAM FAQS
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dreams-faq/part1/preamble.html
http://www.avcweb.com/dreams/faq.htm
Dream Manual and On-line Tutorial
http://inst.santafe.cc.fl.us/~mwehr/L13ConDr.html
For interpretations, a library, a forum, a dream sight gallery, and the first chapter of [her] book, "How To Interpret Your Dreams" (free when you subscribe to her newsletter) go to:
http://www.dream.net.au/
DREAM DICTIONARIES
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/5683/
http://www.petrix.com/dreams/index.html
http://www.swoon.com/dream/
http://www.sleeps.com/dictionary/dictionary.html (this one allows you to ask that a word be added to the dictionary)
DREAM LINKS
http://207.158.202.29/dreams/dream2.htm
http://www.celestialhealing.com/links/dreaminterpretations.html
DREAM INTERPRETATION BOARDS
http://www.frii.com/~tigrnest/wwwboard/wwwboard.htm
http://myenvoy.com/sleepybear/
http://www.north-node.com/nodeorama/index.php (our very own Mick is the moderator)
ANOTHER GOOD DREAM SITE W/ FREE INTUITIVE COURSE
http://www.creativespirit.net/henryreed/index.htm
TOP DREAM BOOKS
http://psychology.about.com/library/gg/aatp012002_bkdream.htm?PM=ss04_psychology
.....
Of course, there are so many more but these are the ones that I have visited in the past and that I am familiar with. I hope this all helps.
Dharma
Frankelmick
visitor
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Dharma,
Thank you
I'm so proud that you mentioned me in amongst all these wonderful references.
Alisa, I know that Dharma's given you plenty to work with at the moment but I just wanted to let you know that I've nearly finished my own easy-to-follow Introduction To Dream Interpretation tutorial which will be ready very soon.
Would you, or anyone else, like me to e-mail you a copy?
Thank you
I'm so proud that you mentioned me in amongst all these wonderful references.
Alisa, I know that Dharma's given you plenty to work with at the moment but I just wanted to let you know that I've nearly finished my own easy-to-follow Introduction To Dream Interpretation tutorial which will be ready very soon.
Would you, or anyone else, like me to e-mail you a copy?