Some Properties of Recursion of a Dichotomy

[lightofdarkness]

The following abstract comes from a new page covering general properties and methods of meaning derivation that seed the creation of such concepts as the I Ching through self-referencing of the yin/yang dichotomy.
--------------------------------
As part of an analysis on the derivation of meaning it has been necessary to focus on self-referencing. In that focus a property of self-referencing has been identified where that property does not appear to be covered in the general literature on self-referencing. Since there is the indication of the human brain utilising self-referencing in meaning derivation, so this property contributes to that derivation and its understanding is essential for getting a good perspective on the derivation and communication of meaning.
----------------------------

Full page: http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/properties.html

Chris.

 

[getojack]

Chris, regarding your categories of...

Sense of wholeness - Blending
Sense of partness - Bounding
Sense of Static relatedness - Bonding
Sense of Dynamic relatedness - Binding

When discussing the I Ching, more appropriate categories would be the four virtues associated with the Heaven trigram and also Qian, namely yuan, heng, li and zhen.

From Alfred Huang's translation:

Yuan, the sublime and initiative,
Is the first and chief quality of goodness.

Heng, the prosperous and smooth,
Is the accumulation of excellence.

Li, the favorable and beneficial,
Is the harmony of all that is just.

Zhen, the steadfast and upright,
Is the core of action.

These four virtues can also be translated as:

Yuan - sprouting, Heng - growing, Li - blooming, and Zhen - bearing fruit.

You, however, seem to be trying to force the I Ching (as well as all human personality and social interaction) into a scientific reductionist context where it doesn't fit. This is just my two cents worth. You can take it or leave it.

-GetoJack

 

[lightofdarkness]

> Chris, regarding your categories of...
>
> Sense of wholeness - Blending
> Sense of partness - Bounding
> Sense of Static relatedness - Bonding
> Sense of Dynamic relatedness - Binding
>
> When discussing the I Ching, more appropriate categories would be the
> four virtues associated with the Heaven trigram and also Qian, namely
> yuan, heng, li and zhen.
>

No. You are being too particular and ignoring general dynamics.

Firstly, the qualities of blend, bond, bound, bind SEED meaning, SEED expression, they themselves are too vague to cover all that we deal with locally, they need grounding using local, more differentiated, terms.

"sprouting" is a composite term captured in qualities of hexagram 03. That hexagram covers issues of containment/control (contractive bounding - water) operating in a context of enlightenment/becoming-aware (expansive binding - thunder) - IOW "yuan" is not as 'simple' as you think. It is a label for complex dynamics.

Secondly, the four categories come out of recursion of differentiate/integrate, and come in two forms each to give us eight qualities that directly map to the *trigrams* (expansive blending vs contractive blending etc etc)

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t1.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t2.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t3.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t4.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t5.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t6.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t7.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t8.html

These categories reflect core qualities derived from brain dynamics across the species. The I Ching Plus material shows these qualities 'shining through' and shows how the local, traditional I Ching material is a 'small world network' derived from a set of universals that form a 'regular network' where all is connected as potentials. That connectivity is shown in the form of the XOR material that one does not find in the 'traditional'-focused texts since no one has investigated the roots of categories as IDM has. (http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/introXOR.html )

The traditional perspectives set the IC as 'ground', but to IDM the IC is a metaphor for what the brain deals with - patterns of differentiating/integrating aka WHAT/WHERE (http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/idm001.html ) - IOW our neurology is 'ground'.

Thus if you want to discuss the traditional IC using traditional associations etc and so stay in the 'small world network' of the traditional that?s fine but limited. The IDM/ICPlus is focused on the roots of meaning across the species and so what all of the locally-named, derived, labels are trying to represent as well as analysis if the methodology in deriving those meanings - self-referencing.

At the species-level we are dealing with 'vague feelings' rather than 'crisp terms'.

Through the IDM work has come material that shows the full spectrum of the I Ching, the regular network form, as compared to the limited scope of the traditional material.

See diagram http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/smallworlds1.jpg

Your focus is obviously on the local expressions, OTOH blend, bond, bound, bind are generic qualities that seed our expressions. Go through the "Species I Ching" on this list:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/92/805.html

Or the other ICPlus material in the form of "The Book of Structures" page:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/IChingPlus

oe associated list of essays etc

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/newindex2.html


>
> You, however, seem to be trying to force the I Ching (as well as all
> human personality and social interaction) into a scientific
> reductionist context where it doesn't fit. This is just my two cents
> worth. You can take it or leave it.
>

I am not 'forcing' anything - self-referencing is self-referencing, be it of yang/yin or anger/fear or differentiate/integrate. The LOCAL realm is of the labels, behind the local is the universal, a set of archetypes that are 'vague' but are there to 'seed' local expression where the archetypes get 'coloured' and so grounded in the local.

;-) your are obviously confusing small world with regular where you are working from within a small world 'box'. The traditional IC has its source in our minds and our minds have their set of possible categories of meaning determined by the scope of our brain in information processing.

The main form of processing in the brain is through self-referencing of the differentiate/integrate dichotomy. Oscillations across this dichotomy are equivalent to applying the dichotomy to itself - self-referencing. Out of that process comes patterns used to derive and communicate meaning. LOCAL conditions, and that includes individual consciousness, will take these neurologically-determined categories and apply them to local conditions to elicit precision and in that application re-label them. Thus all 'small worlds' will generate their own lexicon with which to interpret the local - the IC is an example of that, as is the MBTI, Mathematics, human emotions, five-phase theory etc etc etc

With blend, bond, bound, bind we are dealing with the template for all analogy/metaphor and so at the level of a "Language of the Vague" (see associated .pdf http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/Vague.pdf - warning, this is a 700Kb file so if you dont have broadband be prepared to wait)

This the qualities of binding link IC focus on change - be it immediate (thunder) or delayed (wind) with the emotions of surprise/anticipation or the imaginary numbers (and so a focus on cyclic/morphic change) of mathematics or the MBTI temperaments of SJ/NT.

As such there is no 'reduction', more so the GENERAL qualities are differentiated by local context, more labels added as we 'cut' the whole, the general, into particulars. The self-referencing brings out categories for each row of recursion that are then used as sources of analogy/metaphor to describe reality. We see here the foundations of all languages with the IC being a language based on 'immediate', qualitative, experiences rather than the letters that form the words that form the meaning ;-)

Your posts suggest you are obviously new to this material and so confusing it with the traditional and what you have learnt working with that traditional. I assure you there is a LOT more that allows us to being the 10th century BC material into the 21st century AD. ;-)

The ability to see so much in the IC is due to the sameness across specialisations at their core levels - they all use the ONE set of categories to represent meanings - different contexts, different labels, same feelings.

We can in fact use the ICPlus material to map-out our emotional responses to context and so elicit a hexagram representing that context from the emotions perspective - see http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/EmotionalIC.html

If you live off Wilhelm or Legge or Huang and the traditional perspectives et all that?s fine but in the context of the 'big picture', that includes recognition of 3000+ years of investigation into neurosciences, cognitive science, psychology, sociology, anthropology etc etc, the traditional is limiting. Your choice ;-)

The background of ICPlus is in neurosciences and consideration of MANY interpretations of the IC identifying the SAMENESS behind all of the DIFFERENCES - see refs in http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/irefs.html (not updated for a while so this list is not final)

Chris.

 

[lightofdarkness]

BTW - an IDM overview is at:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/idmsumm.html

also consider:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/ideal.html

More IDM ref lists are in:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/brefs.html

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/neurorefs.html

 

[getojack]

Chris,

Are you deliberately trying to miss my point? Put away your smoke and mirrors for a minute and listen...

According to Confucius, Heaven: the Creative has the qualities of sprouting, growing, blooming and bearing fruit.

According to Chris Lofting, Heaven: the Destructive, has the qualities of anger and eradication.

Who do I think is more of an authority on the I Ching? Confucius or Chris Lofting? Let me think about that for a minute.

Chris, you need some serious help.

-GetoJack

 

[lightofdarkness]

>
> Posted by Getojack (Getojack) on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 1:57 pm:
>
> Chris,
>
> Are you deliberately trying to miss my point? Put away your smoke and
> mirrors for a minute and listen...
>
> According to Confucius, Heaven: the Creative has the qualities of
> sprouting, growing, blooming and bearing fruit.
>
> According to Chris Lofting, Heaven: the Destructive, has the qualities
> of anger and eradication.
>

No. you are being premature in your assessment of what is going on, too quick in approach and obviously rooted in traditional perspectives that exclude understanding of research into mind/brain over the last 3000+ years.

> Who do I think is more of an authority on the I Ching? Confucius or
> Chris Lofting? Let me think about that for a minute.
>

You are not focusing carefully on what is going on here and/or I have not given enough for you to 'get it' so try the following:

For the notion of The Creative, we have the Chinese associations:

Heaven, The Creative : "CH'IEN: spirit power, creative and destructive; unceasing forward motion; dynamic, enduring, untiring; firm, stable; heaven, sovereign, father; also: dry-up, parched, exhausted, cleared away. The ideogram: sprouts or vapours rising from the ground and sunlight, both fecundating moisture and scorching drought." ERANOS p94

As species members, the emotional qualities are sourced from the fight/flight dichotomy that is itself sourced (or a relabelling) from the more generic qualities of dealing with context, either by replacing it with one's own making through eradication in the form of being competitive, or through replication in the form of drowning out opposition through creating copies of oneself.

The creative element of competitiveness is WELL documented and its association with border-line psychosis is also WELL documented.

The BASIC emotions are refined to elicit such notions of self-respect, singlemindedness that come out of the generic 'anger' where anger is a particular term for a quality that is both positive and negative. The refinements mentioned are NOT present in humans until they develop after birth in early infancy in tandem with a sense of 'self'. Thus we have basic emotions and DERIVED emotions. The categories given are of BASIC emotions as derived by researchers such as Plutchik:

Plutchik, R., (2005) "Emotions and Life" American Psychology Association

Also see my "Emotional IC" page : http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/EmotionalIC.html

Fight/flight is a SPECIALIST dichotomy where the ELEMENTS of the dichotomy reflect characteristics of differentiating(fight)/integrating(flight). The characteristics of differentiating include precision and the assertion of 'one' over all others. On the other hand, the characteristics of integrating are less precise but include a group perspective rather than individual.

The generic qualities identified in ICPlus are of blending, bonding, bounding, and binding. Blending comes in two forms - contract and expansive. Expansive blending works on achieving a sense of 'wholeness' through expanding and taking over the context - be it by 'anger' or by 'love'. On the other hand, contractive blending works on achieving a sense of 'wholeness' but fitting in with the existing context and so, from an individual perspective, disappearing (hide, play dead, freeze, use camouflage to 'fit in' and so gain protection in the group, the context- this includes being a 'follower' of some replacement oriented leader, charismatic type etc)

As for notions of 'creativity', note that ANY act of innovative creativity REPLACES AND SO DESTROYS current or previous perspectives. On the other hand, any act of ADAPTIVE creativity COEXISTS with the current rather than replacing it. One form of creativity includes 'analytical negation', the other includes 'dialectical negation'.

The coexistence focus associates with the emotion of fear and grief that are 'opposites' to anger and love where (a) fear means to find a place to hide and so still 'share' the context with the enemy and (b) grief means to maintain a 'love' after it is lost, or to imagine a love one does not have. All acts occurring 'in here'.

The positive nature of 'fear' is in its social interactions of eliciting protection in numbers and so stems the notion of devotion to another/others (earth) as compared to devotion to self (heaven).

The positive nature of 'grief' is in its mental interactions where from the suffering of a loss of love we gain discernment and so quality control (mountain).

SO - according to ICPlus heaven in its DIGRAM form has the qualities of replacement of context with something considered 'better'.

Move to TRIGRAM form and we have (a) lake - replacement through copying, mimcry, and (b) heaven - replacement through competitiveness.

There are NO hexagrams that are purely positive or negative, they can reflect EITHER emotion. The use of 'anger' for heaven stems from the derivation of eight categories of basic emotion by researchers who in fact do not know what they are dealing with ;-)

The IDM/ICPlus mapping of heaven is to 'expansive blending' and as such covers ANY notion, be it positive or negative, that 'fits' that generic category. When we map-in the qualities derived from fight/flight we find that the terms use 'fit' into the generic qualities but in so doing lack the finer distinctions derivable from the IDM perspective.

> Chris, you need some serious help.
>

No. You need to do some deeper thinking and go through references covered in IDM on the derivation of meaning and the analysis of the I Ching ;-)

Here is a start for you:

Heaven, The Creative : "CH'IEN: spirit power, creative and destructive; unceasing forward motion; dynamic, enduring, untiring; firm, stable; heaven, sovereign, father; also: dry-up, parched, exhausted, cleared away. The ideogram: sprouts or vapours rising from the ground and sunlight, both fecundating moisture and scorching drought." ERANOS p94

The expansive BLENDING qualities covered in IDM/ICPlus fit these associations very well where the qualities of blending are derived from self-referencing of differentiate/integrate and seed LOCAL interpretations of reality.

Furthermore, with the XOR work we can extract the full spectrum of the creative, as summarised in the line meaning section of http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x111111.html

(click in the hexagram image for another page of details)

For Lake, the Joyous : "TUI : an open surface, promoting interaction and interpenetration; responsive, free, unhindered, pleasing; opening, passage; the mouth; exchange, barter; straight, direct; meet, gather, place where water accumulates. The ideogram: person, mouth and vapor, speaking with others" ERANOS p614

The expansive BONDING qualities covered in IDM/ICPlus fit these associations very well. For the spectrum see:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x011011.html

(click in the hexagram image for another page of details)

If you want me to rub it in - MY interpretation of what is ment by "The Creative" is richer, covering the full spectrum of the qualities than any comments by Confucius! IN GENERAL the ancients knew they were on to 'something' but in particular had no idea of the scope of what they were dealing with. That is simple fact for if they DID know then the XOR material would be clearly included in the 'dogma'. It required Science to aid in fleshing-out the self-referencing methodology and its properties and IDM to apply that research to such metaphors as the traditional I Ching.

Thus your associations to Confucius are one-sided, too positive whereas mine are dual sided, covering both the constructive and destructive aspects of the quality that in the I Ching is labelled as 'heaven'. (when we add-in qualities from mathematics so heaven associates with whole numbers etc be they positive or negative. In the MBTI we map to charismatic types, XSTP, the operators, trouble shooters etc all HIGHLY competitive and in so being also creative. The LAKE persona, XSFP is softer in its competitiveness, cooperation is used to compete and so it all creative a la 'showbiz' etc etc.)

Despite what many may think, I DO know what I am talking about, even if it can be 'vague' since we are dealing with a "Language of the Vague", so maybe it is *you* who should listen more or at least reflect more deeply then you have to date ;-)

Chris.