Something is going on btw them? - I m driving myself crazy with chain Q.

[Mylife]

Hi all, I have a tricky situation at home between my husband and his female colleague.
Basically they worked together but she left the company and now they speak with video calls on the phone for hours (like 2h plus) frequently and they do so only when I am not around (when either I m away for work, or when he is away for work). I started to become suspicious and I asked the oracle few questions.

I asked if there is a romance going on either physically and they meet or virtually via their video calls?
- I received 63 unchanged. But even here I am not sure how to look at it. It says that there is a beginning or a completion of something but the end shows disorder. Already fulfilled but in the end not yet fulfilled. A bit tricky to understand it.
Could be there is a friendship fulfilled and in the end there is no romance or cheating going on?
Or could be there is a beginning of a romance going on but that leads nowhere?
I didn’t understand the answer fully.

Because I struggled to understand the answer above I then asked more Q by splitting the above Q into 2:
(1) is he cheating physically by meeting her: response was 2 unchanged so I interpret that as a no matter is happening and nothing is coming out the Earth and
(2) is he having sexual / romance chats via these video calls with her: and I received 1.3.6-58 and again I didn’t understand the message hence I asked for a clarification and I got 58.2-17 …

At some point I gave up trying to understand all the answers above because I felt that I m not going anywhere and a day after I asked again the initial question above and I got again 63 but this time was 63.4 - 49.
Not sure what to understand and how to interpret. I am having a guess but since I am a beginning my knowledge is limited.

As a summary I received
63uc
2uc
1.3.6-58
58.2-17
63.4-49

I think I am driving myself crazy with the chain of questions hence I decided to stop and ask you for help now.

My husband says there is pure friendship and nothing is going on. After showing my uncomfortable feelings he decided to introduce me to her via one of their calls. However I still have this uneasy feeling.

Can you help me understanding what the oracle is telling me via the answers above?
Thank you very much.

 

[rosada]

Is there a romance going on?
63. After Completion
After marriage a smart wife
Takes thought of possible misfortunes
and protects herself from them in advance.

Thus I see the IC is telling you there is nothing going on but you were wise to recognize the possibilities and ask your husband about it.

Is he cheating physically?
2. The Receptive
The smart wife with wide experience
Recognizes the signs.

I think the I Ching is saying that if he were you would feel it in your gut and you would know it without a doubt, so here I think 2uc is saying nothing like that is happening.

Is he having romantic chats with her?
1. His Intention:
1.3 Talking about everything and anything.
1.6 Romantic chats however would be way too much.
58. Exchanging ideas
People enjoy meeting with their friends to talk.

Here the I Ching seems to be saying the conversations are not flirtatious, they simply enjoy the conversations. 58.2 specifically says there are no inappropriate conversations happening.

 

[Mylife]

Hi @rosada thank you for your help.

I went and read the hexagrams with your interpretation in mind and

63 - after completion

Is there a romance going on?
63. After Completion
After marriage a smart wife
Takes thought of possible misfortunes
and protects herself from them in advance.

Thus I see the IC is telling you there is nothing going on but you were wise to recognize the possibilities and ask your husband about it.

I couldn’t identify this in Hilary post about 63. I also use the book “the complete I Ching” by Taoist Master Alfred Huang and I couldn’t see that part either.
They both talk about completion at the beginning and disorder/ not complete yet in the end.
In my book he talk about complete a course of action or to fulfil an achievement - it is the ideal situation- time of climax which alternates to its opposite - beyond that there will be a decline- beginning: good fortune. End: disorder - after fulfilment there comes not yet fulfilled- the ending is not yet fulfilled.
Hilary mentions: Despite all that’s been written about hexagram 63 showing everything complete, everything in its right place, it turns out to be all about how we are not finished and had better keep moving and looking forward.

Online I found another explanation similar to the above:
After Completion. Success in small matters.
Perseverance furthers.
At the beginning good fortune,
At the end disorder.

Because of the two meanings “completed” and “not yet completed” and very confused how to interpret the answer with regards to my question if there is something going on between them either physically or virtually via their long and private video calls.

Is he having romantic chats with her?
1. His Intention:
1.3 Talking about everything and anything.
1.6 Romantic chats however would be way too much.
58. Exchanging ideas
People enjoy meeting with their friends to talk.

Here the I Ching seems to be saying the conversations are not flirtatious, they simply enjoy the conversations. 58.2 specifically says there are no inappropriate conversations happening.

1.3.6-58
I understand your interpretation and again I was reading the hexagrams and lines with your view in mind.
1.3- a perfect situation for a leader. One in this situation requires the qualities of a superior person.
Initiating, initiating all day long. At night keeping alert. Adversity, no fault.

Seems to be caution and no fault.

1.6- be careful not to go too far and having regrets - dragon become proud / arrogant. There is regret - he has committed countless evil deeds and was heading for his doom.

This lines confused me. Talks about regrets and commitment of evil faults. It almost seems a contradiction of the line above.

58- speaking with joy and exchange ideas (now I see how you are interpreting it)
Seems that it indicates the conversation that happens between them.

58.2 - I also understand your interpretation for this line.
Says that one at this place is trustworthy and sincere. On the other hand the position of this line is not correct and there might be regret.
Owing to his faith in one’s trust and sincerity regret disappears.
Seems that even if there was danger he behaved well.

The part that surprised me is that when I cast the first question again (the day after) I got the exact same hexagram 63 like the first time.
But this time was 63.4-49

This time I think 63 still talks about after completion and then not being completed yet. But line 4 refers to the action of actually crossing the river and there is a “leak in the boat” and needs to be on guard. And there is room for doubt.
I read it as if there are impediments which prevents to cross the river hence the end is caos and disorder and at the end is no completed yet. As if the river was not crossed yet (but that’s 64) Not sure how to read it…

However it changes to 49- abolishing the old.

the part which confused me very much was this:
- when I asked if there is something going on I received the 63uc and I think this gua says that actually there is something going on between them. I read it in this way because it talks about after completion and generally it refers to a situation where everything has been fulfilled.
Could be that their romance/ sexual relationship has been fulfilled??

But then I split the Q into 2 and I understood
- is there a virtual cheating- and 1.3.6-58 and 58.2-17 seems to indicate some danger (1.6) but then looks like there is only friends conversation.
- but I don’t have a full understanding of the 2uc - could be that there is something physically going on? I know you said in your opinion it is not. I m trying to understand the hexagram from the same point of you. To lean how to read it in this way…

Is he cheating physically?
2. The Receptive
The smart wife with wide experience
Recognizes the signs.

I think the I Ching is saying that if he were you would feel it in your gut and you would know it without a doubt, so here I think 2uc is saying nothing like that is happening.

I see 2uc referring to “the receptive” like you said and also “responding”.
I can’t understand the way you said it. what do you see 2uc talking about exactly that leads you to understand that?

Many thanks and sorry for my long response.
Xxx

 

[debraa]

Hi all, I have a tricky situation at home between my husband and his female colleague.
Basically they worked together but she left the company and now they speak with video calls on the phone for hours (like 2h plus) frequently and they do so only when I am not around (when either I m away for work, or when he is away for work). I started to become suspicious and I asked the oracle few questions.

I asked if there is a romance going on either physically and they meet or virtually via their video calls?
- I received 63 unchanged. But even here I am not sure how to look at it. It says that there is a beginning or a completion of something but the end shows disorder. Already fulfilled but in the end not yet fulfilled. A bit tricky to understand it.
Could be there is a friendship fulfilled and in the end there is no romance or cheating going on?
Or could be there is a beginning of a romance going on but that leads nowhere?
I didn’t understand the answer fully.

Because I struggled to understand the answer above I then asked more Q by splitting the above Q into 2:
(1) is he cheating physically by meeting her: response was 2 unchanged so I interpret that as a no matter is happening and nothing is coming out the Earth and
(2) is he having sexual / romance chats via these video calls with her: and I received 1.3.6-58 and again I didn’t understand the message hence I asked for a clarification and I got 58.2-17 …

At some point I gave up trying to understand all the answers above because I felt that I m not going anywhere and a day after I asked again the initial question above and I got again 63 but this time was 63.4 - 49.
Not sure what to understand and how to interpret. I am having a guess but since I am a beginning my knowledge is limited.

As a summary I received
63uc
2uc
1.3.6-58
58.2-17
63.4-49

I think I am driving myself crazy with the chain of questions hence I decided to stop and ask you for help now.

My husband says there is pure friendship and nothing is going on. After showing my uncomfortable feelings he decided to introduce me to her via one of their calls. However I still have this uneasy feeling.

Can you help me understanding what the oracle is telling me via the answers above?
Thank you very much.

 

[rosada]

Dear Mylife,
I was basing my interpretation of 63 on the Wilhelm translation of the Image. I find the Image often tells what the ultimate lesson is or what should be done. Thus in 63 the situation (Judgement) is that you’ve completed something but just when something appears to be complete and in good order this is when we need to be alert that things could now change to disorder so therefore the Image recommends that in such a situation where it appears we’ve finally gotten things set up this is is precisely where we should stay vigilant to what might go wrong and solve potential problems in advance. Thus as a response to your question “Is there a romance going on?” I see 63 as advice for your concern about wanting to protect something that has already been completed. That is, you and your husband have completed the courtship phase of your relationship and are now married so that step is complete but now will the marriage last? So this is where the I Ching advises that while you two have made your vows to each other and so far it’s all good still it is sensible to recognize where problems could crop up and prevent them before they do. Notice the I Ching specifically says protecting in advance. This advice should reassure you that nothing inappropriate had already happened and that you were right to bring up your concerns with your husband to put your fears to rest.

 

[Mylife]

Hi @rosada now I understand what you mean. Thanks for helping and teaching me how to look at the answer.

I was looking at 63 as an answer of their relationship hence I thought it says that there is something that has been already fulfilled and completed between the two which will end in disorder and become not fulfilled yet.
I was looking at it as if the opportunity for them to have a romance was there, that was a perfect situation for them to do something, they completed something but only small affairs (perhaps friendship) and in the end there is not yet fulfilled (perhaps no romance happening).

But instead you are encouraging me to look at the answers as an answer of the relationship between me and my husband.
Hence you said things have been completed (our union in marriage) and when things reaches a climax things starts to decline and I should pay attention to prevent this from happening.

The was we looked at the answer is different and very interested to see how can be seen differently.
However I think both leads to the same conclusion; nothing has happened and I should give it a rest.
Do you agree @rosada ?

Thank you very much for your support and help. It meant a lot to me

 

[rosada]

Yes, I do agree, nothing happening, give it a rest. I also agree it’s interesting to see how we can look at an answer and see it differently. It’s particularly fascinating how you can ask a question and the hexagram gives you a very helpful answer and then later you find out that the way you interpreted was actually “wrong” and yet the way you saw it worked for you - so it’s good to try to decipher a hexagram even if you’re not sure what the official interpretation is. The Universe will speak to us in any way we can understand!

 

[Trojina]

Hi all, I have a tricky situation at home between my husband and his female colleague.
Basically they worked together but she left the company and now they speak with video calls on the phone for hours (like 2h plus) frequently and they do so only when I am not around (when either I m away for work, or when he is away for work). I started to become suspicious and I asked the oracle few questions.

Why are they talking for 2 hours when you aren't there?

I do not believe it is possible you will know for a fact whether he is being unfaithful or not through Yi alone. To know facts you need facts and no one else can tell you as they do not know. They can say what they see in the casts but it's not a fact.

In your shoes I'd be asking why he's talking to her? If she's a close friend and she's married surely you'd have met her by now and maybe her husband too.

I asked if there is a romance going on either physically and they meet or virtually via their video calls?
- I received 63 unchanged. But even here I am not sure how to look at it. It says that there is a beginning or a completion of something but the end shows disorder. Already fulfilled but in the end not yet fulfilled. A bit tricky to understand it.
Could be there is a friendship fulfilled and in the end there is no romance or cheating going on?
Or could be there is a beginning of a romance going on but that leads nowhere?
I didn’t understand the answer fully.

Well no one knows whether 63 here means yes he is cheating or no he isn't, how could they possibly ?
63uc can be an affirmation as in 'yes you got it/you're right'.

From what you say you have a big communication problem with your husband as you don't know why he is talking to her for so long and I would think you need to know. I mean if a husband has a good female friend I think most wives know something about it.

Because I struggled to understand the answer above I then asked more Q by splitting the above Q into 2:
(1) is he cheating physically by meeting her: response was 2 unchanged so I interpret that as a no matter is happening and nothing is coming out the Earth and
(2) is he having sexual / romance chats via these video calls with her: and I received 1.3.6-58 and again I didn’t understand the message hence I asked for a clarification and I got 58.2-17 …

At some point I gave up trying to understand all the answers above because I felt that I m not going anywhere and a day after I asked again the initial question above and I got again 63 but this time was 63.4 - 49.
Not sure what to understand and how to interpret. I am having a guess but since I am a beginning my knowledge is limited.

There is no answer nor any interpretation by anybody on this planet that will or can give you the facts here. Facts are what you need. More knowledge of the I Ching is not what you need. Anything that isn't fact is useless to help you here.


You need to meet her, talk to her, see what they talk about. That would be a great deal more use to you in understanding the situation between them. If you really want to know what is going on between them find out what is going on between them.

 

[Trojina]

To the readings realise there is any number of ways to interpret this and the 63uc to my mind is far more of a 'yes' than a 'no' here

I asked if there is a romance going on either physically and they meet or virtually via their video calls?
- I received 63 unchanged. But even here I am not sure how to look at it. It says that there is a beginning or a completion of something but the end shows disorder. Already fulfilled but in the end not yet fulfilled. A bit tricky to understand it.
Could be there is a friendship fulfilled and in the end there is no romance or cheating going on?
Or could be there is a beginning of a romance going on but that leads nowhere?
I didn’t understand the answer fully.

I think one could easily say it's already happened, that's what is complete, they are already in relationship.

Do I know that for a fact? Of course not, I'd be an utter charlatan to find him guilty by 63uc alone without good evidence. I also couldn't say nothing has happened between them as neither I nor anyone else can say.

Because I struggled to understand the answer above I then asked more Q by splitting the above Q into 2:
(1) is he cheating physically by meeting her: response was 2 unchanged so I interpret that as a no matter is happening and nothing is coming out the Earth and
(2) is he having sexual / romance chats via these video calls with her: and I received 1.3.6-58 and again I didn’t understand the message hence I asked for a clarification and I got 58.2-17 …

There is no clarification to be found. 58, joy in communication and openness - yes well they talk a lot but what about ? You must have some idea ?

At some point I gave up trying to understand all the answers above because I felt that I m not going anywhere and a day after I asked again the initial question above and I got again 63 but this time was 63.4 - 49.
Not sure what to understand and how to interpret. I am having a guess but since I am a beginning my knowledge is limited.

I think you should give up trying to understand answers and start trying other means like listening to his calls. Sorry, I know it's underhand but it's the only way. There is no use people telling you he isn't doing anything with her, how would they know!

Furthermore what if you find out he is cheating? What will you do then? Whatever you do you have to find facts and they can't be too hard to find. Perhaps you don't want to know the truth, perhaps you are protecting yourself from knowing? There has to be a way of hearing what they are talking about ?

I don't like the sound of it. When he worked with her okay but now it would depend on what the relationship was about and you can tell that from hearing them. It could be they discuss old colleagues and work politics, there is much for colleagues to talk about . But why when you aren't there, why when he knows you don't like it and more importantly why haven't you met her or spoken to her yet? If you want to find out about this you need to meet her instead of asking Yi over and over .

 

[Liselle]

Mylife, what would you think of asking Yi for advice, what you should do, instead of what's going on? I get that that's a perfectly normal thing to want to know, but it seems like a good example of where normal human questions aren't always the best for an oracle. Advice for yourself just seems more useful.

I do think he should stop talking to this woman. I don't think that's so unreasonable. People are allowed to have friends, but if your spouse is upset and you care about your marriage, you stop. I agree these conversations are odd.

 

[Liselle]

After showing my uncomfortable feelings he decided to introduce me to her via one of their calls. However I still have this uneasy feeling.

Wasn't he going to arrange a meeting a long time ago? Apparently that never happened?

 

[Mylife]

Hi @Trojina and @Liselle

After I expressed my concerns, some time after he made me speak with her. At Christmas he called her to say merry Christmas and without her knowing he introduced me to her. It was a 10 min chat (of course I didn’t expect them to have their long chat with me on the call when she doesn’t even know me).

He says that he calls her mainly in his work breaks. He says they talk about work (she is an ex colleague because she left) and because she hates this company she is trying to convince him to leave as well. He also says that they speak about other colleagues and sharing information.
He says that she has another good male colleague and that guy speaks to her too and they have even longer conversations (seems that she is a chatty person).
From his explanation seems to be a friendship build around work.
Plus, he tells me about their chats. He always told me when they meet for a drink or lunch at work. And he told me about their chats and he shares with me what he learns and what they chat about.
I don’t know about this relationship because I spy but I know about it because he tells me - which is a positive thing I believe.
But what annoys me is that he never calls her when he is around me. They speak mainly when he is at work. And they spoke only once when he was at home and I wasn’t.
But he said that he will introduce me to her when she comes back to London again (now she is in her country until she find another job).

@Liselle he introduce me to her via a call at Christmas. It was a shot call but he did the introduction.

Long time ago I asked the oracle if shall I be worry about his relationship with A and the oracle told me 45uc.
I understood this message as “bringing people together with purpose” and it meant good fortune and no faults.
Was I wrong?

63uc I personally interpreted as “yes” too but the thing which made me confuse is the “not yet completed in the end”.
What does it mean in my situation “completed in the beginning” but “not completed in the end”?

 

[Mylife]

I was looking through my diary and I found that last year when I was trying to get pregnant. I was pregnant in June 22 and I lost the baby and then we were trying again and I asked “do you see me pregnant after this month ovulation” and the oracle told me 20.1.3-63
Basically was telling to stay still and watch because I was already fulfilled and I was pregnant but in the end there was disorder. I didn’t understand what was saying so I waited.
I never got get pregnant after that loss. However the oracle was telling that I was already fulfilled but not fulfilled in the end.

I also asked if I have to do the operation that my doctor was suggesting which will help me to get pregnant and again I got 49.4-63 which seems to be encouraging and at first sight seems to say yes will help you get pregnant. But in the end I got pregnant and lost the baby. Here again it seems to be a yes but then it turns into a no.

Another one was a Q I asked about an interview, I was curious to see if they will give me an offer. And I got 63.1-39
Seems to say that things were going well and yes I got the offer but in the end I refused it.

I am doing another interview these days with a company I like and when I asked advice to the oracle about this role if I will get the offer, it says again 63uc (same like for my husband situation).

Hence I am confuse now with 63uc because seems like a yes but then is not actually a yes because things turn up side down and becomes a no.
And I don’t know how to see it in this situation here with my husband and Aug. And because I have struggled to understand it I asked the 2 extra Q about: (1) did he cheat physically with her or (2) he did cheat virtually via their video calls? And here and answer of 2uc for physical cheat and 1.3.6-58 and 58.2-17 for virtual cheating.

If I understood correct 2 is an open earth full of possibilities where everything can happen. But when is 2uc does it mean that the earth has not been walked / planted so there is no outcome as if there is nothing happening?

1.3.6 - I am not sure what it says exactly but 58 and 58.2 i think is a joyful chat with no faults.

If I am not wrong the two Q separate are saying no cheating but then 63us seems not to be fully in agreement with the 2q. So I am lost here. I can’t see the link between all these answers hence I am confused

 

[Mylife]

Mylife, what would you think of asking Yi for advice, what you should do, instead of what's going on? I

Hi @Liselle I did like you suggested and I started to look at the situation from another angle. I share with you here below:

1. What are you advising me to do with regards to the relationship between D and Aug?
23.2-4
Is the oracle telling me to act in a sense of terminating their relationship? And in line 2 it says that evil forces growing gradually and if not stopped immediately will become stronger.
However it also says that one at this place doesn’t have the wise teachers and helpful friends.
What shall I do? Perhaps asking him to have the calls with her when I m around too, and not just from his office? That perhaps will help me understand what kind of relationship they have…

2. I also asked - What image are you giving me about D and Aug overall relationship?
47.2.4-8
Seems to be a difficult friendship/ relationship which will end soon?
But then 8 union appear. So not sure if it says that their relationship will end or not.

3. I asked about my husband actions - Looking at the relationship that D has with Aug, all their meetings in person and all their video calls and chats, do you see actions from D that are disrespectful and harmful towards me and our relationship? I received 59.1.2.3.5 - 22

Is the oracle telling me that there is a dispersing of such a behaviour from his end?
Each line indicates good vibe
59.1 - there will be good fortune
59.2- all occasions for repentance will disappear
59.3 - there will be no occasion for repentance
59.5- there will be no error
22 not sure what it means actually
But from 59 and the lines I think that hi husband didn’t have a disrespectful and harmful behaviour towards me and our relationship.

 

[Liselle]

Mylife, you really are driving yourself crazy with the "what's going on" readings. You just asked two more. I understand how much you want to know, and how utterly reasonable it is to want to know it, but Yi readings might just be too...what's the word...vague? poetic? to give you the answers you want. You'd like Yi literally to say something like, "They're really just friends. Nothing else is going on" (or not, whatever the answer actually is), and Yi can't literally say that to you in those sorts of words. It has to wrap stuff up in poetry and imagery, which is harder for us to understand.

I mean, sometimes we get crystal-clear answers - it's not impossible - but it seems this one isn't going to be like that.

Hexagram 4 in the 23 to 4 reading acknowledges that very well. Not Knowing.

The rest of that "What are you advising me to do with regards to the relationship between D and Aug" reading...

Hilary's 23.2 translation:
'Stripping away the bed by way of its frame.
To disregard constancy: pitfall.'

You asked for advice for yourself, so the first phrase might be Yi acknowledging what you're going through: your stable frame is being stripped away, your borders and boundaries and framework are being undermined.

The second phrase might be the advice: There is pitfall if you disregard constancy.

Alright, what is constancy, and what constancy might you be disregarding? Good questions, and I'm not completely sure.

But I do remember your earlier readings about your marriage, and how reassuring Yi was. Has anything changed since then? He was friends with her then, he's still friends with her - those readings are probably still valid. "Constancy" might be to the earlier readings. Go look at those threads again.

Constancy might also be to your husband. The earlier readings again: if he's telling you they're only friends and that he loves you, maybe it means you can believe him.


A different possibility: "Stripping away the bed by way of its frame" might be Yi's way of addressing "What should I do?" by saying "Don't do what you're currently doing!" Don't strip away the frame yourself. Don't undermine your own marriage unnecessarily. Suspicion and distrust can feed on itself like an avalanche. Don't do that. Maybe start by not asking any more "What's going on?" readings. That's really good doubt-fuel that you don't need.


Another possibility for constancy - not sure - might be just to put one foot in front of the other in a normal way. For instance what if you'd make up your mind to completely believe him that they're only friends? How do you treat his other friends? Treat this lady like that, exactly as if she's any of his other friends.

Meeting her is probably a really good idea. The four of you (she's married, too, is that right?) should get together as you've planned, as friends do. Sooner rather than later, hopefully.

 

[Mylife]

Mylife, you really are driving yourself crazy with the "what's going on" readings

I know @Liselle i should stop now.

Meeting her is probably a really good idea.

She is not in London at the moment. After she left her job where my husband works She went back home to her country. Not sure when she will be back.

Yi can't literally say that to you in those sorts of words. It has to wrap stuff up in poetry and imagery, which is harder for us to understand.

You are right. Maybe I should stop.

The four of you (she's married, too, is that right?)

She was single when they worked together and she is single now

But I do remember your earlier readings about your marriage, and how reassuring Yi was. Has anything changed since then? He was friends with her then, he's still friends with her - those readings are probably still valid.

Yes he was friend with her then. The frequency of their calls has changed (more often and always in private).
But on the other hand I have to give him credit that he tells me about their conversations. He shares with me when they talk and he doesn’t hide it. Recently he introduced me to her over a recent short call during Christmas.
In one hand he acts well towards me. On the other hand I don’t understand these private calls which seems to be the reason on why I m driving myself mad.

But for now I shall stop and see what happens.