Symbology of marking Changing Lines

[Blwu Star]

As most of anyone who makes serious casts of the I Ching using a pen or pencil, writing solid or broken lines quickly by hand can be tedious ID-ing if you have sloppy handwriting like I do. Even more so with marking which lines are changing. The convention I learned was to put dots to the right side of the lines. Sometimes they don't line up so with my lousy short term memory, the tally is which line is the dot associated with? Sometimes the dot becomes a smudge of a small dash (is it dirt or what?)

HBs book offers the convention of Xs and O in the middle of a line. I have a bone to pick with that one too since the one that goes in the middle of the broken line can hide whether it is broken or solid (probably due to not remembering if it is supposed to be an X or O).

Since we're talking about a clear viewing system of marking the symbol for a line changing, the only simple and sure method is to attach an "O" at the right side of the line (not unattached). Not being a dot is clear that it is the intended mark and it won't stray to an adjacent line. Not being in the middle, the line is clearly identifying itself. You also don't have to remember whether to use an X or O.

Now if I can come up with a simple way to change a hastily drawn solid line with an ink pen to a broken line other than thickening the dashes, I will have it complete.:bows:

 

[svenrus]

Doing it "the old fashion-way"

6 = ---X---
7 = -------
8 = --- ---
9 = ---O---

_________________

Hex 1 then will be: 7-7-7-7-7-7
Hex 1 with second line changing will be: 7-9-7-7-7-7

Hex 39 with first, third and topline changing will be: 6-8-9-8-7-6

and so on.

( Layout for an I Ching-diary )

 

[hilary]

HBs book offers the convention of Xs and O in the middle of a line. I have a bone to pick with that one too since the one that goes in the middle of the broken line can hide whether it is broken or solid (probably due to not remembering if it is supposed to be an X or O).

I don't know the origin of the convention, but you could remember it through the association of heaven with the circle and earth with the square. Heaven-yang-solid-circle; earth-yin-broken-square - or at least the x drawn inside the square.

An common quick way to jot lines down is just to write 'x' for 6 and 'o' for 9, not drawing the line at all.

(I don't write hexagrams down as I cast them - I just 'draw' them mentally. There's one less thing to worry about.)

I'm going to move this thread to 'Exploring Divination' since it's I-Ching-related.

 

[sooo]

You don't need to physically throw coins or physically write down open and closed/broken and solid lines to make a serious cast. Not sure what a serious vs not serious cast is nor why one should be executed any differently.

I've always used what I was originally taught, namely an X in the middle of a 9 line and a 0 in the middle of a 6 line. This makes practical sense (to me) because a broken line leaves a space for the circle while an X does not interrupt the continuity of a straight line. But I could just as well place a little (or big) check mark next to the line in question that's changing.

It really makes no difference how you designate the symbol of the received changing line in a manner that is clear to you, same as which side of a coin is yang or yin, or whatever you choose to call them. All that matters is that you transfer the idea clearly in your head and that it remains consistent so there's no confusion.

 

[pocossin]

You don't need to physically throw coins or physically write down open and closed/broken and solid lines to make a serious cast. Not sure what a serious vs not serious cast is nor why one should be executed any differently.

A serious casting is one in which the diviner is involved at psychological depth. If the casting does not involve the roots of your existence, it is not serious.

I've always used what I was originally taught, namely an X in the middle of a 9 line and a 0 in the middle of a 6 line.

I never use what I was originally taught by Legge, Blofeld, and Wilhelm, and consider them inept. I cast by the three coin method, but ignore numbers. They are unnecessary and an impediment to divinational clarity. As for marking changing lines, I use a ">" to the right of a line. The use of X and 0 distorts the visual appearance of the hexagram. No matter how traditional they are, no one who wants divinational efficacy should use them. Numbers and X's and O's are important to some for psychological reasons, but I have seen no evidence in Shared Reading that numericalists and traditionalists produce superior divination.

It really makes no difference how you designate the symbol of the received changing line in a manner that is clear to you, same as which side of a coin is yang or yin, or whatever you choose to call them. All that matters is that you transfer the idea clearly in your head and that it remains consistent so there's no confusion.

It does matter. Heads = yang and tails = yin is a sexist interpretation of the coins, yet, in my opinion, if one wants to follow the ancient Chinese, one will accept it. Chinese thought is based on illusion and misunderstanding since the apparent dynamism of heaven actually results from the turning of the earth. Copernicus is the source of the sexual revolution.

 

[sooo]

A serious casting is one in which the diviner is involved at psychological depth. If the casting does not involve the roots of your existence, it is not serious.

Yes, I expected someone or several to think that psycho-something or moral something or spiritual something-or-other would be the definition of a serious question. I agree that they can seem serious to the individual who prioritizes their own life in such a way.

If someone is late to their first day of school or a job because they can't find the keys to their car, and they ask "where are my keys", I consider that as serious or as earnest a question as any of those so-called deeper questions. What you or I consider to be serious may be a lightweight question to another.

Likewise, if your assignment of heads or tails is important to your thinking, then it is important to you.

The same is true in translations and the author's commentaries: one sees every hexagram and line as being about right conduct. Another sees it within a cause and effect context. Another sees it all through a spiritual context. Another through psychology. To me it all depends on context, and very often Yi's answer applies to all those concerns at once.

It reminds me of a little story of a heated debate among members of a Jewish temple. One group insisted that everyone should stand when a certain "important" prayer was read aloud. The other side insisted that everyone should be seated. The rabbi was beside himself, and so he went to the edge of the town to seek out a very old reclusive rabbi, said to possess great wisdom and the deepest knowledge of tradition. "Teacher, you are the eldest among rabbis, you know the true traditions. Tell me please, is the tradition to stand when reciting this prayer?" "No", replied the old teacher. "Then the true tradition is to sit while the prayer is read?" "No," said the wise elder. "Teacher, you must help me! This arguing and endless debating is driving us all crazy!" "Ah!" shouted the old rabbi; "THAT is the true tradition!"

 

[svenrus]

I've read that once cowrieshells were used as money. It's also mentioned in hexagram 51 second line: as cowries in E.L. Shaughnessy's Mawangduitranslation and in Rl Lynn's Wang Bitranslation. cowrie-strings in R. Rutt's I Ching ed.
Whether the ancient chinese used those for divination like todays use with coins ? Anyway imagining a cowrieshell used like coins, the one side is blank and rounded and the other side got a deep crack or opening. Blank and rounded equals the marking with a circle and the crack likewise have to be the marking with a cross ie broken.
I don't think they used cowrieshells to divination (?) then, but I think it's important to remember that "two is Earth (the cross) and three is Heaven (the circle)" and that the ciphers 6,7,8 and 9 is lead out of the threefold use of the coins making each line...
One could use any markings at the changing and nonchanging line as wished but I agree with what was mentioned by someone here, that those markings could disturb the picture given with the six lines in the hexagram. I like to use ciphers as I'm still examining the Nanjing-rules.

 

[rosada]

When no pen and paper is available when I'm needing to consult the I Ching I keep track of the change lines using my fingers. I start with the fingers of my left hand spread out and consider the thumb line one, the index finger line two and so forth. I toss the coins with my right hand. If I get a change line I tuck the corresponding finger under. There is no finger to represent line 6 so I have to remember if that was a change line.
To help remember the lines as I'm tossing the coins I say the name of the first trigram aloud.
Thus if I tossed 1.5 - 14, after I tossed the first three unchanging solid lines I would say "heaven".
Then I would toss an unchanging solid line.
Then I would toss a changing solid line and because it was the fifth line I would tuck the pinky finger of my left hand under.
Then I would toss a final unchanging solid line.

 

[pocossin]

When no pen and paper is available when I'm needing to consult the I Ching I keep track of the change lines using my fingers.

This is an innovative approach to recording a casting. I realize that women's clothing does not have pockets as does men's -- another topic feminists should rage about -- but I feel naked when I am without pen and paper.

 

[svenrus]

 

[rosada]

Tom,
I think that is a very very significant observation. Having the tools to write things down encourages a person to think more - but maybe to remember less?
I'm thinking how we've all experienced now and then a sense that our reliance on computers has somehow shortened out attention spans and interfered with our ability to remember. I wonder if men's access to writing and writing tools over the last 500 thousand years has to some degree reduced their reliance on their inner knowingness/past life memories while woman have up until the last couple of hundred years for the most part had considerably less access to writing tools - and therefore have maintained a stronger reliance on the inner knowing which accounts for the wide acknowledgement of the "woman's intuition" phenomenon.
Could it be that women are not naturally more intuitive than men but that men, relying more on writing tools to assist their thinking, have weakened their intuitive abilities?
Perhaps the whole female equality thing will coincide with the recognition of men's intuition.
I think I'm going to start designing shirts with pockets!
Thanks for the idea!
Rosada

 

[pocossin]

I wonder if men's access to writing and writing tools over the last 500 thousand years has to some degree reduced their reliance on their inner knowingness/past life memories while woman have up until the last couple of hundred years for the most part had considerably less access to writing tools - and therefore have maintained a stronger reliance on the inner knowing which accounts for the wide acknowledgement of the "woman's intuition" phenomenon.

Until the invention of the typewriter, this was true, but since women excel in information processing (my experience), they no longer have an intuitive advantage. When my computer is infected with a virus, I take it to a young woman for repair. Even at Clarity, note Lisa's superiority in computer technology. It's as if the world has been turned upside down. This explains the rage of Muslims who resent the imposition of advanced Western values on them. You are going to sew pockets? Have you any idea how rare it is for a modern woman to know how to sew? One woman at Clarity actually has a sewing room. I could hardly believe it. I have female relatives who do not know even how to cook.

 

[sooo]

h.49

When I was in school, girls took home economics, cooking and sewing classes. Boys took shop. How many young men today could build a respectable cabinet, make dovetail joints by hand or even do a brake job on their cars, much less rebuild a simple carburetor? Computerized fuel injectors make carburetors obsolete, and 90% of our clothing is made in China or other eastern countries. And we're concerned about drawing proper hexagrams? Counting on our fingers and virtual readings seem ironically appropriate. Well, at least the tortoises are happier for it.

 

[Liselle]

Even at Clarity, note Lisa's superiority in computer technology.

Um...not that I don't appreciate a compliment ...but there are all kinds of things wrong with that conclusion. First off, I factually do not know very much about technology. I have a long-standing interest in computers, and in a hodge-podgey manner I enjoy reading things about them and related subjects, but I actually own only one second-hand laptop (about which I recently panicked when it turned out to need a new CMOS battery - not an indication of knowledge ). And I got lucky finding an old, lost Clarity thread. Trojina - bless her, but she overreacted to that. In reality it had more to do with some fondness for sleuthing, Yi's encouragement to keep looking, and plain old luck.

There are people here who have real professional skills - Ashteroid and Hujambo off the top of my head, almost certainly others...

 

[Liselle]

Ewald, Justin... (This is the danger of listing people...stopping now :bag

 

[sooo]

chuckle.. you get an A in humility then, Lisa.