The Bible and Yi

[pantherpanther]

Not precisely. More literally:

We do not know whose child this is
(But) imagine it divinity’s (or Di's) ancestor

Also:

Chapter 1
道可道也，非恆道也；
名可名也，非恆名也。
無，名天地之始也；
有，名萬物之母也。
故，
恆無，欲也，以觀其妙；
恆有，欲也，以觀其徼。
此兩者同出而異名，
同謂之玄。
玄之又玄，眾妙之門。
The Dao is able to be stated, but it is not the common Dao / stating;
[Its] name is able to be named, but it is not the common name / naming.
Wu is the beginning of the heaven and the earth;
Yu is the mother of all things.
So,
Being always Wu is necessary, So do such can perceive its wonder;
Being always Yu is necessary, So do such can watch its border.
These two have the same origin, and they differ in name;
Both are called Xuan.
One Xuan plus another Xuan, are the sources of all wonders.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Laozi_(Wikisource_translation)

The meaning of this chapter is perhaps expressed by Chuang Tzu:
"Who takes Heaven as his ancestor, Virtue as his home,
the Tao as his door, and who becomes change -- is a
Sage." -- Chuang Tzu, Inner Chapters


In Qi: The Journal of Traditional Eastern Health and Fitness. 2008. 18 (1): 18‐25.Page 3 , The Art of Internal Observation and Panoramic Knowing: Laozi’s Classic on the Way of Virtuesby Guan Cheng Sun, Ph.D. and Jill Gonet, M.F.A.:

“Wu” (无)—the state of emptiness (zero) is the beginning of everything; “You” (有)—the state of appearance of initial intelligence and thoughts (one) is the origin of the manifestation of things. The stable state of Wu is required for observing and revealing the secret of creation and new developments; the stable state of You is required for observing and recognizing the false and the true. Both states, Wu and You, are called by different names but they both issue from the samesource called “Xuan” (玄)—the state of the golden secret of all life. The stable state of Xuan (between zero and one) is the gate of internal cultivation and realization, as well as external recognition and understanding. CommentIng the first chapter, Laozi clearly states that it is necessary to understand theimportance of quiet sitting and internal observation. He suggests a door to explore in order to guide us to understand the Way during our quiet sitting and internal observation. Laozi emphasizes a unique method of learning and realization, which is to use our own body system inwardly instead of learning from the outside alone. Laozi had found that the dream system or state could be used proactively and consciously during quiet sitting and internal observation practice. The way to use the dream system is to calm down the very busy and chaotic intellectual activities first, and then to empty the thoughts from the mind until nothing’s there—so that you are experiencing the state of “Wu.” Once you are experiencing this state of Wu, new thoughts and images will naturally arise in your mind. This appearance of the initial intelligence and thoughts and images in your mind is the state of “You.”...A profound discovery of Laozi was the state between the Wu and the You, called “Xuan.”

 

[neegula]

Sorry

The expresion is not "seeds of the Spirit", but "seeds of the Verb"

[The Council] Discover with joy and respect the seeds of the Verb, hidden in the cultures and traditions of the peoples​

​

i don't think this means "hidden" in books like the Yi Ching, because that is divination, not simply "culture and tradition".
before accepting books like I Ching, the church should renew the bible, the old testament in which divination-witchcraft is forbidden (and used in the same time).

sorry for being bit stubborn about this.

a person should say " i follow jesus teachings" instead than "i'm christian".

 

[44bob123]

Hi Maremaria, here is a working definition of "practising Christian" from Flor:

I guess I would consider myself a "practicing" Christian. Of course I'm aware of many, many people that are much more devoted than me, and whose lives are closer to the model set by Jesus, which I assume is what you meant by "practicing".
Anyway, I had a catholic upbringing (school included), I pray every day, I go to Church and, most importanly, I BELIEVE in God, Jesus, Mary and the Saints. I feel Christian and I guess that makes me one

Bob:bows:

 

[44bob123]

I want to thank everyone for their recent contributions. It may appear otherwise, but I am still sorting out my priorities and allegiances in life. The recent comments have been very helpful.

Bob:bows:

 

[pantherpanther]

Pantherpanther. Tell me more about those Egyptian mysteries. Sound suspiciously like New Age hocus pocus, but I await your reply!

Bob

The Christian rituals and the New Testament story , although based partly on Judaism, are essentially based on the Egyptian mysteries and rituals, which reflected much older teachings.

 

[44bob123]

Hi P-p, I hadn't come across that assertion before.

As far as I know the gospels are essentially Jewish, although Morton Smith intimates some mystery teaching regarding the youth in a loin cloth. The passover meal, whether actual or not, is certainly Jewish theology.

I am less knowledgeable regarding the rest of the NT. Certainly Paul, a hellenised Jew, tended to proclain the "Good News" in ways to make it comprehensible to his gentile audience. Consequently he doesn't refer to any degree to the historic Jesus and uses Greek concepts instead. Understandably, it is inevitable that one communicates in the thought forms and cultural idioms of one's target audience. However I am not aware that in the New Testament environs Egyptian mysteries were either common place or even understood.

I have little knowledge of Gnostic Christianity, but from what I remember any mysteries were not Egyptian.

In the last analysis of course, evangelists change their vocabulary and concepts depending on the situation. Early Jesuits in China tried to explain God using the Yijing and the concept of Ti. However what does not change is the reality they are trying to communicate.

I have read a fair number of books on the NT and, as I said, not come across that idea. Can you provide some references?

Bob:bows:

 

[pantherpanther]

A basic source is:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ebod/ebodintr.htm
THE BOOK OF THE DEAD
The Papyrus of Ani
IN THE BRITISH MUSEUM.THE EGYPTIAN TEXT WITH INTERLINEAR
TRANSLITERATION AND TRANSLATION,
A RUNNING TRANSLATION, INTRODUCTION, ETC.
by E. A. WALLIS BUDGE
Late keeper of Assyrian and Egyptian Antiquities
in the British Museum
[1895]

There are many comparisons by scholars with differing views between the Bible and Egyptian texts, as the Pyramid hymns to Osiris.
This study, in four parts, reviews and comments on much of the available scholarship (from a subjective point of view): http://www.egyptorigins.org/osirisandjesus.htm

The author (not named) writes, "Lest the reader be misled, I shall state my thesis boldly here at the beginning of my discourse. It is my firm belief that the event of Jesus was known many millennia before it actually took place, and that the account, or prophecy, was maintained by certain cultures, and later incorporated into their folk myths. This is the root behind the similarity of the ancient stories from culture to culture, all reflecting in various distorted forms that most ancient knowledge.
The Egyptians were fortunate in that their folk memories reflect considerable more details of that account, even though still highly distorted."

 

[44bob123]

Thanks for the info. I read The Book of the Dead nearly 40 years ago. I can't say I noticed any close parrallels with the story of Jesus.
I did a quick scan on the interent and found loads of Jesus/Osiris sites.
However I wouldn't entertain any thesis which doubts the actual existence of Jesus as the historical evidence is far too strong.

Anyway, I shall have to read up on these ideas and get back to you in due course.

Bob:bows:

 

[44bob123]

Hi P_P, came across this while roaming around. A critique of the "popular" Jesus myth books.

Bob:bows:

http://www.bede.org.uk/books,jmyth.htm#1

 

[gene]

All of the sacred writings have an exoteric and an esoteric meaning. The esoteric for the most part is not available to the common man. One must be an initiate into the sacred mysteries in order to understand them on a very high level. I am not one of those. I have, however, studied enough, learned enough, and met enough of the right people to have a background in some of the basics. When one understands the basics, one realizes that the esoteric doctrines are basically the same in all sacred documents. In the Western world, even the Roman Catholic Church admits there is one doctrine for the laity, another for the higher levels. They are though, as Jesus said, ones who, "keep the keys of the kingdom from others and even refuse to go in themselves." The Catholic Church has debased the true meaning to the point where it is almost unrecognizable, and they have done this, up to a point purposely.

All scriptures have hidden meanings. From any sacred source. Whether you talk about the Bible, the Koran, the I Ching, the Tao Teh Ching, or whatever. Those meanings cannot be deciphered in anyway by the common laity. The groundwork must be laid by a teacher, or there is no "entering the door." Masters and Doctors degrees are useless to attain such knowledge. In fact, it can often be a detriment.

Except that, in the last few years, some scientists are beginning to recognize the truth, that all is one. There is no separation, there are no particles, there is not even time or space. They are all illusions. In other words, the only thing that exists is consciousness. No God in the traditional sense, only consciousness that is all encompassing. Now it is science, not just sacred scriptures. But even the scientists are not yet ready to understand the deeper truth behind it. However, that time is coming. As we end the age of Pisces, the old paradigm of "believing" is now being replaced by the paradigm of "knowing." Whenever there is a change from one age to another, the old gods must be replaced by the new. The old god of believing in Jesus is being replaced by the new god of knowing the hidden or esoteric meaning. In all the changes of ages, those who refused to change their gods were brought to the dust. This is symbolized by the Bull that Moses would not allow the Hebrew people to worship, because Taurus had ended, and the age of Aries the Ram began, and the Jews were instructed to slay a ram. (Aries) It happened again when the age of Aries was replaced by the age of Pisces. The final Lamb was slain, and the fish now became the symbol for the Church, (E(pisco)palean. Once again, those who refused to relinquish the old gods were destroyed when Rome scourged the earth. Especially in AD 70 and again in AD 135.

It always behooves us to look a little deeper. It is a truism that the best place something can be hidden is in plane sight, yet as many sacred texts say, "They have ears to hear, but cannot hear, and eyes to see but cannot see." It is also a truism that "only when the disciple is ready does the master appear," as well as, "only when the master is ready does the disciple appear."


Gene

 

[neegula]

They are though, as Jesus said, ones who, "keep the keys of the kingdom from others and even refuse to go in themselves." The Catholic Church has debased the true meaning to the point where it is almost unrecognizable, and they have done this, up to a point purposely.


As we end the age of Pisces, the old paradigm of "believing" is now being replaced by the paradigm of "knowing." Whenever there is a change from one age to another, the old gods must be replaced by the new. The old god of believing in Jesus is being replaced by the new god of knowing the hidden or esoteric meaning.

"only when the disciple is ready does the master appear," as well as, "only when the master is ready does the disciple appear."

1) you mean (just to be sure if i understood or not) the church took avantage of keeping hidden the meaning of the book, growing up an ignorant masses and nounes? if yes, this is evident to me, i agree.

2) thank you so much for having pointed this out
i just add that the fish tends to rise to the bait, the acquarius is much more in his/her wind of renewal (in reading symbolism and connexions)...

3) what is/could accelerating the waking up in counsciousness so that at a certain point there will be no need of seperating in masters and disciples? which age you can imagine could be much more connected with spiritual evolution in humanity?
according to you, are there other evident characters of aquarious age?
is there in literature something about calendar of ages? thanks :bows:

 

[gene]

neegula

I am not sure I understand all your questions, but as to #3, let me say, much of what will bring us to the point that there will be no distinction between masters and disciples is the putting together of the knowledge of the east and the west. It is in putting together opposites that the truth is revealed. As a wise man I once knew said, "Zizygy to serendipity, the putting together of opposites leads to the fortunate finding of things not looked for." When we unite east and west, yin and yang, female and male, we will have no further need of a teacher. Then, as the age of Aquarius promises, we will truly know.

Gene.