"The Da Vinci Code"

[jerryd]

Yly2pg1; "Is this real" Well reality comes in all manners and shapes, and yes I am certain the book is real, what it may contain is altogether another question. If you tend to believe anything is a possibility then have a read and you can tell me. Mysteries abound throughout this planet and go un answered, the Yi may have some enlightening things to say on this but I seriously doubt the oricle will do anything but direct us to a councelor for treatment if we choose to believe. It is described as and enigmatic find...this in its self says it is beyong explaination so I seriously doubt there is any provable factuals within the cover. I have not read this book, as Chariots of the Gods was about all I could handle when it was printed. I am a forgone skeptic unless there is scientific proof adressing these type of findings. They are alot like a modified conspiracy theory gone awry if you like. Best of luck in you persuit of knowledge. I plan to ask this question my self just to see what Hex,Gua arises from the ashes.

 

[yly2pg1]

Hi Jerryd,

Nice having you back.

Honestly,I always have a mixed feelings when come to the almighty GOD.
Firstly, i always hope HE exists, and for a very simple reason.

Because I am lazy.
Because to love GOD is so simple.

As you may have known, the Chinese is practically rather adaptive to God, Buddhas, Confucianism and Taoism. We allow room for each and every God worshiped around the world in our life, for good health, prosperity and protection.

Sometimes I go to pay respect in Chinese Temple and ask for directions via the traditional 'bamboo slip' divination (with ancient Chinese metaphors). "Dana" (Food donation) to Buddhist monk is normal in my life (including five precepts/eight-fold paths). At home, we have a place to pay respect to our ancestor and some other gods, including the GRAND GOD - "DI". In July, normally i will pay respect to GOD in a 100+ year-old St.Anne church near my house for the festive anniversary. In my country, you will find lot of Chinese businessmen worship Ganesha in the Indian Temple.

God is in every corner in our life, for good or bad.

BTW, dun you think the Chariot of the God look like the ancient Chinese character "DI"?

 

[jerryd]

Yl2pg1; I am not certain you have come to the right conclusion or perhaps I am misundrestanding you. I should clear up something, Chariots of the Gods was a book with the idea about alien entities being the creators of our world and tried desperately to convince people this was a fact. In this instance the book you have questioned is simular its attempt to place iresponsible information in front of people willing to believe in un substantiated facts and ideas. Thanks for the welcome back. <>) <jerry

 

[dharma]

Jerryd,

I see reality as a giant jigsaw puzzle. The whole picture is out there for me to see but only if I am willing to go to the trouble of picking up ALL the pieces and bringing them together. If, however, I have some preconceived notion of what that picture should be, I may thwart my own efforts at ever completing the picture for my own understanding.

A certain level of skepticism is certainly a very healthy thing - it keeps us grounded through the process of fitting together the many disjointed, and oftentimes, bewildering pieces out there. However, too much skepticism forces us to literally throw away critical pieces to the whole picture because they're more than we can handle (as you indicated above).

Now, isolated pieces of any puzzle often seem "impossible" outside of the picture, yet they always make perfect sense when fitted into their respective places. In the same way, conspiracy theories alone are like these isolated puzzle pieces not yet fitted into their proper place. But only by accepting that these pieces might be a valid PART of the overall picture, and NOT the whole picture by any stretch, can we ever hope to succeed at seeing the WHOLE picture for ourselves.

Otherwise, having judged some of the pieces as wanting and thrown them out, we find that our reality-puzzle has sections missing. As a result, we are left seeing only what we are willing to 'believe-in'. What we 'believe-in' is merely a version of reality, and versions all contain significant holes in them. As such, they fail to adequately answer the many possible questions we may have about life, this planet and our very existence, which the one-collective-reality, if we would allow for all of its pieces, could more easily resolve for us.

 

[jerryd]

Dharma;
I would concede the point of throwing away pieces just because one cannot find a place for them is not a brilliant move. It is for each to consider which puzzel is worth pieceing together and how much effort one is to put into its finishing. I do not reject any aproposition of possibility out of hand. Most theories,as the name defines,theory, all have some merit.
I personally leave sorting out of enigmatic and esoteric matters to those who have the time and predisposition to do this. The finding of (ie, aliens, conspiracy theories, are pig smarter than cats, and is there a life after death.) All are important and deserve investigation, just I have not the resources and time to help in defineing the boundries and pieces of these kind of puzzelments, if others do and are successful I will be the first to sit and read these findings and appricate the implications. My belief system is a pragmatic one and envolves knitting some metaphysical patterns into its weaveing through phylosophical insight and intuition, and have a keen and weary eye for the people who insist I take on board beliefs which are wishes and not tempered by a solid fact base, generally these types of beliefs are fueled by the materialism and generated by materialistic persuits. Not saying this is not ok but it does sully the appearence of and quality in the final production.

 

[jerryd]

Dharma, as a PS, a collective reality is exactly what no one needs as it would distroy all individuality.

 

[yly2pg1]

You are real Galileo! Jerryd!

Hope you could share with us some of the puzzles you have solved so far, say ... start a new thread. That would be lovely!

 

[yly2pg1]

To Val,

I still owe you an answer about Shan Hai Jing. Cotto matte.


To Dharma,

Your post about the "puzzle-piece" is inspiring.
Why don't you share something with us in the thread "Yi and System Science"? This thread is still full of big holes and pits. Need piece by piece contributions (by anyone of you here) to map a WHOLE "small world" network.

 

[yly2pg1]

... Small world 'Template', probably is a better word here.

 

[dharma]

<blockquote>All are important and deserve investigation, just I have not the resources and time to help in defineing the boundries and pieces of these kind of puzzelments, if others do and are successful I will be the first to sit and read these findings and appricate the implications.</blockquote>

Really?? But after reading only one of Erich Von Daniken's books -"Chariot of the Gods"- which contains not ALL his findings, but only a portion of it, you judged his whole works as unsuccessfull without fully investigating.

<blockquote>...and have a keen and weary eye for the people who insist I take on board beliefs which are wishes and not tempered by a solid fact base, generally these types of beliefs are fueled by the materialism and generated by materialistic persuits. Not saying this is not ok but it does sully the appearence of and quality in the final production.</blockquote>

A weary eye coupled with a keen one is surely a cynical one. I don't think that any of these men and women who put their whole lives into investigating certain corners of our world insist that you "believe" anything at all. This is why they go to such painstaking lengths to investigate their subject with a fine-tooth comb. And anyone who bothers to read their complete works would discover just how much research and effort has been put into what they eventually publish. That doesn't mean that all their efforts can ever be considered "complete" - the work is on-going, there is always a little bit more that gets uncovered with further investigation.

Do I believe that they do it for material gain? Well, from what I know of book writing, unless you're someone like Danielle Steele or Stephen King who have their feet planted firmly in the door of fiction, there isn't much money to be made from churning out research material. And considering that continuing investigations require enough money, not to mention that one still needs to eat and put a roof over one's head, I don't think these people are living it up actually.

Jerryd, you are certainly free to do and say what is true for you. And if it feels right to you, well then, it's right for you. However, I think that sometimes, some people, cannot be appeased, no matter what; for them, there is no proof that is ever solid enough for them to pick up long enough, and notice the glint of gold that may lie hidden in it.

But this is merely my point of view - just another to go alongside yours.

 

[dharma]

Yly2pg1,

Well thank you so much for your kind words. I will look at the page you are referring to when I have a chance. If I feel inspired to speak, I will.

... Small world 'Template' - I like that - the word 'template' seems more accurate.

 

[jerryd]

Dharma;
My keen and weary eyes possess the ability to see cynical, my humanity allows me to be cynical when it is appproperate. Sorry if you find my thoughts less qualified by your making assumptions.

 

[cal val]

Yly2pg1...

"I still owe you an answer about Shan Hai Jing. Cotto matte."

Thank you very much. I'll wait patiently then.

Love,

Val

 

[dharma]

Jerryd,

As I already said, "...this is merely my point of view - just another to go alongside yours" so there is no need to imagine that I considered your thoughts less qualified to be expressed. Not to mention, I'm fairly certain that there others reading here who are identifying more closely with your view-point than they are with mine. I just think it is important to present the opposing side whenever possible.

And in regards to the conclusion I drew of the presence of cynicism in your post... well, since I had nothing else to go by, it was drawn from the words you yourself chose to describe your feelings on the matter.

You originally referred to yourself as a skeptic who, although as distrustful as any cynic may be, is still open to the matter and questioning. Later on you revealed that skepticism wasn't really where you were coming from at all, but rather, cynicism. How did I conclude this? because a cynic distrusts not so much the material presented, since the material is generally overlooked in favour of scrutinizing and commenting on the peoples' motivations for pursuing said material. Cynics, as a result, also tend to completely withdraw and reject further investigation, unlike the skeptic who may still not be convinced yet continues to question.

And that is how I came to my conclusion. But do I think that your thoughts are less relevant? Absolutely, not. I'd be a pretty big hypocrite if I was open to Erich Von Daniken's opinions but not open to yours. However, being open doesn't mean that I agree, and since you are here and Mr. Von Daniken is not...

 

[yly2pg1]

Val,

You may have known this article - the IC-landscape. Inside, there is a map about the "zhong yuan"(middle-plain).

Notice the dark blue color of the land.
Imagine if the land is below the sea level, what kind of landscape could it be?

Could there be any connection with this article?

 

[yly2pg1]

In this light, you could solve the puzzle in Shan Hai Jing in a better perspective? I hope.

Not only the 'trigrams' and Ba gua, you could unlock some of the secret about "dragon" which appears in both I Ching and Shan Hai Jing.

Some other questions to ponder:

-Who is "Huang Di"?

-Is the "BIG FLOOD" in Shan Hai Jing the same flood in the Noah's Ark?

and perhaps, what the MAP in Shan Hai Jing really tells?

 

[gene]

There have been flood stories in all cultures around the world. And they are remarkably similar. So similar you could almost say, "Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent." Why? One simple reason. It is the truth. Pure and simple. But there are those who would say we are putting irresponsible theories out there. Go ahead and believe in foolishness if you wish. Some of us are a little smarter.

Gene

Gene

 

[hilary]

I've been reading more about the Chinese flood myth in Sarah Allan's Shape of the Turtle. (Recommended! Especially for anyone interested in the Shanhaijing - she refers to that quite a bit.) She says that in no text is the Chinese flood associated with rainfall - it's always the waters rising.

I saw a TV programme a few years back offering an explanation for the Biblical and Babylonian flood myths. I think the idea was that the Mediterranean burst through the Bosphorous (9,000BC or so when sea levels rose) to create the Black Sea. China is a whole lot further away, of course, and it's a very different myth (no boat). I don't know (who does?) , but it sounds like a different flood. (Maybe at the same time?)

 

[kevin]

Well the last Ice age only ended 40,000 years ago? Neolithic times.

The land in the Northern UK has since risen by some 30? due to the removal of the weight of Ice? that would not apply to the Bosphorus though? and not China.

So perhaps climate / sea level can fluctuate in these sorts of time scales?

I wonder if there might have been a warmer spell where sea levels rose that bit more? bursting through to the Black sea and also flooding China?

Pure conjecture

--Kevin

 

[hilary]

I think the idea on the TV programme was that melting ice (after a comparatively minor global cold snap) caused a rise in sea levels.

 

[yly2pg1]

Hi all,

We have few clues here:
(1) Flood due to water rising
(2) The land rises ...

Shan Hai Jing could provide clues to the questions above if we treat the text of this book as a 'METAPHOR', rather than a conventional way of interpretation - just like the way we use I Ching.

 

[yly2pg1]

About the TV programme, i think i have seen part of it. It is an exploration on the seabed in the Black Sea. The finding in the second scene is a big thrill but the 'Chief' is back on land then. This much i can remember.

But I have a question in mind.

Didn't the Bible mention about the God's arrangement about the Flood?
What is that really mean?

Shanhaijing may unlock this if we could assign a close identity to each and every "animal" and "figure" found in the text?

 

[gene]

Yly2

That bit about God arranging the flood is kind of tricky. It comes from a book originally in Hebrew which we can't even truly translate correctly, though some people think we can, and has many different words that are translated God. See the post above where I gave a website discussing flood and preflood matters. There are several hours of radio talk show involved of a very, very interesting nature, and for the most part accurate. Documents from around the world have now been translated, probably not completely accurately, but close enough we have a picture of what happened during earth's earliest ages. They are remarkably consistent, and some even come from China. (I do remember in my college mythology class reading Chinese flood stories that were remarkably similar to Western stories, and they had a boat in them) The American Indian tribes pretty much all have flood stories. The Indians in the Northwest believed the boat landed on Mount Hood in Oregon. The flood was not caused merely by rising waters. It was caused by a shift of the poles, which according to many of the ancient translated texts, was caused by a nuclear war. What exactly caused it can be argued about, but the fact is, there was for whatever reason, a pole shift, and this is what caused the so called Biblical flood. It wasn't rain per se, nor was it rising waters. it was massive waves of water sweeping over land masses due to the pole shift. And it did happen. The nuclear war, or the devastation however it happened, was not caused by God, but by the gods, or the aliens, who interfered and illegally created genetic manipulation with the races already on earth. They did so after the flood too, and in fact are still in very small ways, doing it. The scriptures that are of much greater concern are the ones that say, "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the day of the Son of Man."

Gene

 

[yly2pg1]

flood and preflood matters?

Actually, "Flood" and "Preflood" is an important time-scale in Shan_Hai_Jing.

 

[yly2pg1]

The flood was not caused merely by rising waters. It was caused by a shift of the poles, which according to many of the ancient translated texts, was caused by a nuclear war.

Researchers have tried to map the predicted landmarks in Shanhaijing (SHJ) to the present landmarks. It is found that only by shifting the directions of North/East/West/South, can one able to find the right spots. Pole shift?

I will be more specific on this when i have time later.


nuclear war?

Yes!
This is what happened between Huang Ti and his rivals.

 

[yly2pg1]

But, land rise did happen!

It is a giant project ever planned and implemented on earth.


Point to ponder:
In what time-scale you think these events happened? When are these events happened?

 

[kevin]

Yly2

I would be interested to here more when you have the time.

Side note:

In the Bhagavad Gita there is a full and precise account of radiation poisoning in a local population.

It is at the point in the tale where Arjun et al. get word that the Pandit brothers, who have now suffered a major defeat and are loosing badly, used the, "unusable weapon" on lands which they were trying to subjugate. The shock and horror that even the ?evil Pandits? would use such a weapon was also described in the book.

As Arjun?s army approached these lands to liberate them they were faced with streams of refugees.

The book describes them as having teeth and hair falling out, vomiting and many having burns and many who were blind.

It also says there were many thousands of deaths which occurred after the use of the weapon.

The book clearly states that the weapon was used after the Pandit?s had left.

I think this is fairly accurate - but it is many years since I read the Bhagavad Gita.

I have read elsewhere that the plain where this was said to have taken place still shows traces of radioactive material resulting from fission. Though I have not verified this.

--Kevin

 

[kevin]

In balance:

I should also add that the technology generally described, again in some detail, is of bows and horses and spears... not what one would expect if they had nuclear technologies.

--Kevin

 

[gene]

Well, there is ample evidence that a nuclear weapon strike did happen in the past. There are areas in India that show evidence of a nuclear holocaust, as does the desert in Egypt, an area that appears to once have been a very wet climate. The story in the Bible of Soddom and Gomorra, with Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt, more properly translated as vaporized. The area around where those two cities are traditionally believed to be also appear to have been laid waste at one time.

As for the technology, the war was between the continents of Lemuria and Atlantis, and the technology, due to the pole shift, is now at the bottom of the pacific and the atlantic.

Incidentally, some people in our government know this, and have reason to believe some of that technology is under the sand in Iraq, which is one reason we went to war in Iraq, rather than Saudi Arabia or some other helpless country.

Gene

 

[yly2pg1]

-They are remarkably consistent, and some even come from China. (I do remember in my college mythology class reading Chinese flood stories that were remarkably similar to Western stories, and they had a boat in them)

-That bit about God arranging the flood is kind of tricky. It comes from a book originally in Hebrew which we can't even truly translate correctly, though some people think we can, and has many different words that are translated God.

The last Paragraph in the last Chapter in Shanhaijing is about the arrangement of Eight People by DI.

What is their assignments?
To educate the earthings!