The meaning of sin 57.1 > 9

[Albatross]

Greetings
This is my first time sharing a reading.

Context
I was a Catholic practitioner in the past, but like I think that the past configure my future I wanted to revisit some judeo-christian concepts. In this case it is the concept of sin

Question
What might be a new way to understand the sin?

Answer: 57.1 to 9

My thoughts about this, it is that the sin is not like the common sense in the religious thinking that is break a norm. Like a human always I made mistakes but I must has the determination to move on. But it is not a forced determination, it must be like the wind, smooth, it does not try to change only to please others. Here it is when hexagram 9 comes to clarify that is in the little efforts of every day it will polish the own nature.

I have some doubts What is it the meaning of 'Favorable to have somewhere to go.'? And Who is the great person? In other readings come to me this to sentences.

Thank you.

 

[rosada]

Yes, I think "Determination to move on" is appropriate here. Like after the total fiasco of the traveler burning up his nest in the previous hexagram line, 56.6, it takes the courage of a warrior to keep on keeping on. So I can see 57.1 and "Favorable to have somewhere to go" as meaning that having a goal or destination in mind can inspire one to keeping on even when all else fails.
"Sin" would then be whatever prevents us from persevering and particularly 57.1 names indecision as the primordial sin because then we don't have a clear goal to pull us forward and we become immobile - dead?

Maybe "sin" is relative, we must decide what is sinful for us and then stick to our decision?

Interesting how after overcoming indecision, and I assume this means strengthening inner resolution to stick with a goal, the next lines, 57.2.3.4.5, all seem to refer to aligning with others moving in the same direction, towards the same goal, and thus viewing future setbacks as tests that now serve to make one stronger.

My memory aid for 57.1 is "The only thing there is to fear is fear itself."

 

[Albatross]

Thank you for your reply. I feel consolation with your answer.

Like my question was for a new way to understand the conception of sin. I thought this morning that the oracle pointed to the conservation of balance, I mean, that sinful is everything that breaks the harmony. So the purification of the sin it is not a forceful intention to adapt ourself to the letter of the law if so the careful listening the own needs, for that reason this sentence "we must decide what is sinful" is so appealing but we have to be careful because our own tendency like human is to lie to ourself.

I think the discovery of the sin, it is not attain to a formula it is a long journey, with little steps (Hex. 9). At the end, the sin has its particularities but I do not think it is a personal decision, it depends in the way we interact with the environment, with ourself. Or like you said «...having a goal or destination in mind can inspire one to keeping on even when all else fails.»

I love this «My memory aid for 57.1 is "The only thing there is to fear is fear itself."»

 

[Freedda]

Hello Allegorical being. Yours is an interesting and very far-reaching question I think, and not one I have easy answers/responses to.

First, your query made me wonder, what do you mean by 'understanding sin' - in light of the fact that you refer to yourself as a 'Catholic practitioner in the past'?

For example, are you looking to explore 'sin' - assuming that it is a real thing, that it still holds meaning for you, and that you just want to understand it better? Or, are you looking at - or are open to - adopting a new ideal or concept that would take the place (as it were) of 'sin'?

Or perhaps something else entirely?

But in taking the approach of a new idea / ideal / concept: 57 is about exploring, feeling, adapting to your world as a tree's roots do when they feel their way through the earth; and also how a gentle wind finds its way around obstacles, and into all kinds of new places. And so - with the idea that wind comes and goes, advances retreats, and that sometimes (with 57.1) we need to have a hero's bravery and persistence to do this kind of exploring ... and that perhaps this is an idea / ideal you could cultivate instead of 'sin'.

Another idea for me is how sin seems very firm and un-flexible: a particular action or thought is a sin and it can be atoned for (or not) in a specific way. There is no exploring options, or ways around it, but, on the other hand ....

57 is about being flexible, taking a long term view of things, about taking small steps, and about communication, and so it is really describing an entirely different way of looking at and approaching the world.

And with the related hexagram 9, one idea for me is that one's exploring and adapting are tied to or bouyed by one's higher ideals, which might be God- or religion-based, or could be about your own sense of what is truthful, and what is right and wrong. After all, don't we often find some understanding (regardless of individual religious beliefs) about what is right and wrong, and about harming others (and by 'others' we can include other people, animals, other beings, our other selves, the earth ....) ... and these don't need to rely on God or sin to be real.

For me, Hexgram 9 also implies being practical - that when we raise small beasts - or look to our 'small' (meaning personal) lives - we often look to the potential for rain on the horizon, but we can't rely on this - on the 'what ifs' or 'what will be' - but instead we need to rely on what is right in front of us, including our own character. (And what does our own characters have to do with sin?)

Or maybe I'm just rambling here.
Best, D.

 

[Albatross]

First, I think it is not a 'or', it is an 'and'
I am "looking to explore 'sin' - assuming that it is a real thing, that it still holds meaning for some people, and [...] I want to understand it better". And, I am "looking at - or are open to - adopting a new ideal or concept that would take the place [...] of 'sin'"

Like you said there is not "easy answers". In first place, 'sin' for me, it is a word that try to express a relation with the reality, which purpose is to process the blame that it arise when a person considers that its actions were wrong. In that way, I have the belief that to move on I have to remade old concept in new form if so, the old will come later, may be in a disguise, but like I am not take my time to knew them I will glad to have something new and I will say: 'This is something new" But it will not.

"[...] sin seems very firm and un-flexible" I think I feel in the same way, for that reason the answer of the I Ching it is like a confirmation to me, because 'sin' in a "firm and unflexible" is something that was communicated but I think every person is a world, and I think every person must have to take the time to recognize the way in which the 'lack' appears in its world.

Thank you. It was a delightful to read your answer.

 

[Freedda]

I am "looking to explore 'sin' - assuming that it is a real thing .... And, I am "looking at - or are open to - adopting a new ideal or concept that would take the place of 'sin'"

I am glad you found my comments helpful - or at least interesting.

I admit here to a bias: since I never grew up with the idea of sin, nor of a God for that matter, I can't really see how 'sin' is in any way useful.

There is the idea of 'sin' being related to knowing what is right and wrong, but we can know that without a religious or god/sin overlay. Buddhism, for example, spells out recommended actions and ways of being in the world - such as not causing harm to others and not engaging in false speech .... but this is not based on some divine entity looking down and judging you as being sinful.

So, from my point of view, the answer makes sense as a replacement for the concept of sin, but not really as a way to understand (or justify) it. But again, this is only my take on it.

Best, d.

 

[Albatross]

I was forgetgul about a reading at the beginning of the week. I made a different question about the same topic. I remembered because you said: "... about taking small steps, and about communication..." And the answer to that question told about that communication and small steps, the images was about a small bird. When I interpreted the reading I was still attach to the concept of sin, but I think now the invitation it is about this that you said that "we need to rely on what is right in front of us ".

The question was Which would be my assumption about the miasma, my own history of sin?

The answer was 62.1.2.5 to 43.

 

[Freedda]

Which would be my assumption about the miasma, my own history of sin? ... The answer was 62.1.2.5 to 43.

I really don't know what you mean by this question?

Miasma is, in one definition, 'an influence or atmosphere that tends to deplete or corrupt.' It orginally meant (before 1880) 'a noxious 'bad air' that was believed to cause diseases such as cholera, chlamydia, or the Black Death.' But in either case, I am not sure how you are using it in your question?

And more generally, are you asking the Yi to tell you what your assuptions are regarding ... whatever it is you're asking about?

Best, D.

 

[Albatross]

I did a erroneous translation of my own question. I did it in spanish and I assimilated that 'assumption' in English may be have the same meaning. The question is about how take responsibility about my actions that spread like miasma in the life of others.
In that early question I was trying to liberate me of the concept of sin, I named it miasma.
My intention with this question is related to the question about the sin; early on the week, I was trying to discover the way that the sin have manifested in my life. In that regard, I discover that I had conflicts with the concept of sin and I solicited the help of Yi to reformulated it.

Thanks, S.

 

[my_key]

Hi Allegorical_being
From a personal perspective these sound deeply probing questions fot you, especially with your background in the Catholic faith. Sin has such a bad press in many quarters, when in other perspectives it is little more than about mistakes and how we choose to carry them.

Question
What might be a new way to understand the sin?

Answer: 57.1 to 9

This question seems to me to be about about how you go through your new learning about sin. It could be saying for you that a new way to understand the sin would be to work through a process of bringing many disparate aspects together in your seeking. Be thorough and nurturing of yourself (be gentle) - there is no rush. You will have to enter into this whole heartedly and resolutely knowing what you want to achieve and fully expecting that there will be a wide range of emotions encountered and twists and turns in the progress you make.

Your second query which is more relating to you on a personal level "I was trying to discover the way that the sin have manifested in my life" and somehow with 'miasma' floating around in the question, the way sin has crept into your life and the negative influences it has produced.

The answer was 62.1.2.5 to 43

hex 62: Traverses means it moves through being excessively small.
hex 43 : deciding and parting. Deciding means breaking through; the strong breaks through the supple.

So putting these two together you could say something like sin is crafty in the way it moves into your life in ways that are unnoticed until it becomes strong enough to break out through the flexible barriers that have been holding it in check.

You have now reached a position where you trust yourself to address these matters. It is not right for you to fly away from this (you may have done this before). So take your time, you have nothing to prove to anybody(62.1). The origins may lay in your ancestoral lines and beyond into the ether, and it is important that as you approach these places that you do so with love, understanding and forgiveness. This is not a battle to be won or where blame needs to be apportioned. Be accepting and level headed, bringing perspective and proportion to the insights you gain (62.2). These things may not be easy to address for you, however if you let the rain come to you, you will find what has been hiding from has nowhere else to run you'll find a whole new life opening up for you. Make clear, decisive actions and shine the light on each difficulty as it arises and there will be fewer and fewer obstacles left on your road(43)

Or something like, or not at all like, that.............

Good Luck

 

[Albatross]

Reading your messages I discovered that or I assumed that the explanations from Freeda and yours are like the two parts of the coin, Freeda is like the future attitude about the subject and yours, it is like the future.

I thought this after I read this that you wrote: "sin is crafty in the way it moves into your life". I was impelled to remember a line from The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola that sounds very similar when he told about the enemy (the bad spirit) that «he behaves as a chief bent on conquering and robbing what he desires [...] attacks it on the weakest side...»

Or maybe, that I have to do is to find the connection between my old life and a new one.

Thanks, S.

 

[my_key]

Hi Allegorical_being
It's good to know you have a few different perspectives to go forward with now.
I had a quick thumb through the document you posted. It seemed to me to be a very heavy way to denounce your sins: a typical Catholic treatise.

Although I have to say here I have not been brought up in the Catholic faith, I was wondering if you have looked at any of St Teresa of Avila's work. Many of her writings do carry a strong ascetic bent however some of her more spiritual works centre on the progress of the Christian soul toward God and may point you towards finding a new way to understand sin under a Catholic umbrella . 'The Interior Castle' is one of her more recognised works.

Of course, there are plenty of other sources outside the Catholic faith where new ways of understanding sin can be researched.
Good Luck.

 

[Albatross]

It was very shocking to read the "typical Catholic treatise." For me the book that I posted, it offered me a difference experience, a more flexible experience. I was really appeled with the sentences you wrote, when you used "crafty", because I felt that crafty has affinities with the metaphor of Ignatius and his chief that attacks the weakest side.

Yes, it «seemed [...] a very heavy way to denounce [...] sins»; that is may be a consequence of the rudeness of its composition, but to Ignatius a central point for the spiritual grow is a gift, becuase no matters how effort you put in solve your own lack, the fulfillment is in the gratitude, in the generous donation to others. Ignatius of Loyola assumed that when a person grow in a spiritual way at the end the sin assume a more subtle form. For that reason, throw his book I came to broke the heavy ways of the dogma of sin in the Catholic church.

By the way, now that you mentioned Teresa of Avila, I have more affinity with her partner (I think he was a her partner), John of the Cross, with his "night of the soul" and that stuff.

Thanks for your patience, S.

 

[my_key]

Hi Allegorical_being

I'm sure I have not read as many Catholic texts as you have, however from the quick scrutiny I gave it the book did seem to be similarly written to other Catholic texts that I have come across. It followed ways of conveying the content in what seemed a 'heavy' way to read. When books are 'heavy' for me (no appeal) I do not always feel inclined to persevere with them: they do not draw me in. This does not say that the delivery is 'heavy' for everyone or that the content is not meaningful.

Service and gratitude are key elements in spiritual growth and the idea that such growth cannot be forced is well documented in many faiths and spiritual practices outside of Catholicism. I'm glad that you found the book and the teachings of Ignatius of Loyola so useful in giving you a new perspective on sin.

I agree, St John of the Cross' work also contains useful information and wisdom.

Good Luck

 

[Albatross]

Hello my_key

Thanks for your words, for the time you dedicate to answer. It had been a really comforting experience to me during this week while I had tried to read the Yi answer.

Yes, I understand when you said the book is heavy like no an appealing book. At the beginning, for me it was heavy too, but I have to confess that I did not really read the book, I went to spiritual retire based in the book, and in that space I had the opportunity to know its content. In other case, I had not read this book. It is really heavy.

Best, S.