Tired and bewildered more than ever before Hex. 64.1

[surnevs]

Hi, For the last 3 weeks to around a month a feeling of despondency and tiredness like never before has overwhelmed me. My first thought was old age but thinking about it it came sudden from one day to another. I admit that I asked the I out of curiosity: What is that? - and got hex. 64.1
"He gets his tail in the water,
Humiliating" (Wilhelm/Baynes)
I wonder if the I tells me that this condition is caused by a risky act I've made...
Or, if a possible solution to get this condition solved would be to be aware not to take risky acts in the future to come...
As it was an inquiry I held to the second possibility, but as I asked out of curiosity it could as well be the first.

Please reply shortly as my English isn't what it should be.
- and if so: Thanks.

 

[breakmov]

hello surnevs

Tired and bewildered more than ever before Hex. 64.1​

Hi, For the last 3 weeks to around a month a feeling of despondency and tiredness like never before has overwhelmed me.

64.1>38 :

"why do you let yourself get into that distressed state and remain hesitant to do something preventive at the beginning of this new season? "

-you already know what happens when summer ends...days more short...less sun...a "new rhythm" for the body to adapt to.

-As an example of preventive measures...maybe take vitamin D...see more videos that make you laugh...listen to happy music....

breakmov

 

[Liselle]

Maybe you've noticed in time? Not sure, but I think 64.1 is about going into the river before you really should, but then saying "whoops" and getting back out.

It's certainly better than 64.6 where you soak your whole head (or drown).

 

[surnevs]

Maybe you've noticed in time? Not sure, but I think 64.1 is about going into the river before you really should, but then saying "whoops" and getting back out.

It's certainly better than 64.6 where you soak your whole head (or drown).

So, it's a warning rather than an explanation of why I find myself in this condition? ie to avoid risky acts in the future to come...
It's a tricky one and an in-depth explanation of my situation as a whole would fill up 2,3 or 20 pages as with the possibility that I'm told that it's due to a risky act I already have made, it leads around 49 years back in time - and that story would simply be too comprehensive, and confusing for anyone to share with.
I'll start taking the Omen to be a warning.
Thank's breakmov and Liselle.

 

[Liselle]

I don't know. It can't be a warning not to do something you did 49 years ago. Unless you're thinking of doing it again, I suppose.

It was more just a general comment of what I think 64.1 might mean. I don't know how to apply it.

Also I don't think 64.1 is that bad. You go into a river, but then realize you shouldn't have and get back out before much harm is done.

But if 64.1 is meant to be a diagnosis - why you feel like this, or what it's a symptom of from a medical point of view - that might be impossible to understand. We're not doctors and can't recognize what 64.1 might represent medically.

 

[Trojina]

Hi, For the last 3 weeks to around a month a feeling of despondency and tiredness like never before has overwhelmed me. My first thought was old age but thinking about it it came sudden from one day to another. I admit that I asked the I out of curiosity: What is that? - and got hex. 64.1
"He gets his tail in the water,
Humiliating" (Wilhelm/Baynes)
I wonder if the I tells me that this condition is caused by a risky act I've made...
Or, if a possible solution to get this condition solved would be to be aware not to take risky acts in the future to come...
As it was an inquiry I held to the second possibility, but as I asked out of curiosity it could as well be the first.

Please reply shortly as my English isn't what it should be.
- and if so: Thanks.

Maybe you made a recent effort in some area of life which didn't succeed and this impacted on you emotionally? It may not be a big thing, some task or trip or exchange or social event you weren't up to? If so then you've internalized it as failure, you're telling yourself you've failed in some way.


I'm not sure but if you look back at the weeks before this time you felt despondent what was happening? Perhaps you could journal and explore where you tried to do something but couldn't complete it.

'Soaking your tail,
Shame.'


So there's shame involved, perhaps self-blame or disappointment in yourself? Perhaps you need to give yourself some praise for trying to do or be whatever it was. Conditions haven't been right for you to make a move forward you may have wanted to make. Perhaps your health is not up to the usual standard and you've been trying to do things you can't do. (Maybe get a check up with a Dr)


I recall this thread of yours

Frustrated about not having enough time

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here that feels it frustrating not to have the time needed when replying or following up on threads I started - maybe shouldn't have started them at all ? I remember my sister, many years ago, gave me Richard Wilhelm's I Ging, the german edition; and she's...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Perhaps that feeling of not being able to read enough or do all the things is making you unaccepting of where you are in life. Perhaps those feelings are linked to your current feelings? Perhaps you need to be kinder and more gentle with yourself and not make hard demands? I think it likely these feelings of despondency are arising from a sense of failure. I think Yi is suggesting you take accounts of the conditions in your life where you can't always cross rivers, I think it's saying not to force progress. Perhaps there were meetings, social events that were too much that you couldn't deal with?

Try not to think in terms of success or failure even in small projects - it's okay to be where you are without trying to move forward with things at this time.

 

[rosada]

I see 64. Before Completion as referring to the interval between completing one major project (63. After Completion) and launching a new one (1. The Creative). It's a time for making plans and putting things in place. An example would be when making a move After Completing getting out of the old place, you still have yet to complete setting up the new one. The Judgement warns that at this critical juncture Before Completing setting up, one may think they have taken care of everything and are ready to jump into their new adventure, but this is actually the time when one needs to be most careful, particularly in regards to attempting to do too much too soon. The Image points out the importance of recognizing the need for slow, thoughtful. careful consideration whether you're setting up a new apartment or a new life - A time for finding a place for everything and everything in it's place, particularly when it comes to knowing what to leave in the past!

The lines tell how this is to be done. The first line of any hexagram often tells how things are before one gets into the actual experience the hexagram is describing. So 64.1 is describing how things are when a person takes action before they have really understood what they are getting themselves into, so it is a warning not to try to leap too far, promise or take on too much.

As a response to your question, "Why am I feeling so tired?" I see it as saying you have somehow given yourself a goal that is beyond what is reasonable at this time and that you are advised to step back and reconsider what your goals should be. For example, if you've been following the news you may be carrying the weight of all Ukraine, Russia, Democracy and the whole female gender on your back.

 

[surnevs]

I think I'll take the Omen as a warning. I think you are right here, Trojina and Rosada, that too many duties with my job, reading, social affairs - and conflicts in those - have piled up and without me being aware of the danger in this it came almost suddenly with this reaction ie tiredness. I will try to avoid risky tasks like too many burdens at a time - and like breakmov pointed out take a relax with something different, a movie etc.
Yes, and thanks for your assistance in this difficult question I raised in front of you. And Liselle: it could very well be a warning for me to seek medical advice of a kind that demands experts, especially if the solution should be found in the Omen itself ie seen from a medical point of view.

 

[breakmov]

You live in Denmark, a country much further north where the "solar concentration by area" is much lower compared to countries further south, and therefore the impact of shorter and shorter days, such as in autumn, has potentially an effect on "depressive states" much more pronounced where you live.

...surely you have already verified the relationship that exists between countries with a disposition tendentially "more cheerful", such as Brazil, which is much closer to the equator and therefore with a greater "concentration of solar incidence".... and other countries, such as Norway, much further away from the equator, much closer to the North Pole, and therefore with a much lower "concentration of solar incidence", which reflects a natural predisposition to a more reserved temperament and more connected to "depressive states" in the population.

At this time of early autumn it is important, especially in older people, or with a predisposition to "depressive states", and in your case you live in a more northern area, try to counteract the effect of shorter days and the consequent lack of light with something that helps your body to adapt to this new season.
Your reading 64.1>38 fits this scenario like a glove.

breakmov

 

[rosada]

Also if you are in to astrology you might get insight considering that six of the ten planets we look at for guidance are what we call "retrograde" right now, meaning from the earth's perspective they appear to be moving backwards. As an omen for what we may experience in our personal lives, this backward movement of the planets could create a sense of not being passionately drawn towards anything particularly. Without a sense of being drawn towards a goal we can believe in everything seems like a chore, especially launching anything new. The air itself feels heavy like a cloud of gravel. Very 38-39. I think!

 

[surnevs]

Also if you are in to astrology you might get insight considering that six of the ten planets we look at for guidance are what we call "retrograde" right now, meaning from the earth's perspective they appear to be moving backwards. As an omen for what we may experience in our personal lives, this backward movement of the planets could create a sense of not being passionately drawn towards anything particularly. Without a sense of being drawn towards a goal we can believe in everything seems like a chore, especially launching anything new. The air itself feels heavy like a cloud of gravel. Very 38-39. I think!

At first, what you are referring to, I took it to be a mundane/general phenomenon. I got curious and looked at the planetary constellations and especially Saturn (Old age) Retrograde in Aquarius.
My inquiry to the I Ching is from 2' Oct. 2022.
I've attached my horoscope and an ephemeride. On pdf-page 138 you'll see the constellations in September this year.
Transit Saturn is in opposition to "my" Pluto and more or less also to my Ruler, the Moon most of September and continuing toward the Moon, my ruler as I'm born in Cancer, long into October.
Saturn /Old age versus Pluto / "deadly tiredness" in the 12' House !!!
Certainly not a time for me to engage in risking "get the tail wet"

 

[surnevs]

You live in Denmark, a country much further north where the "solar concentration by area" is much lower compared to countries further south, and therefore the impact of shorter and shorter days, such as in autumn, has potentially an effect on "depressive states" much more pronounced where you live.

...surely you have already verified the relationship that exists between countries with a disposition tendentially "more cheerful", such as Brazil, which is much closer to the equator and therefore with a greater "concentration of solar incidence".... and other countries, such as Norway, much further away from the equator, much closer to the North Pole, and therefore with a much lower "concentration of solar incidence", which reflects a natural predisposition to a more reserved temperament and more connected to "depressive states" in the population.

At this time of early autumn it is important, especially in older people, or with a predisposition to "depressive states", and in your case you live in a more northern area, try to counteract the effect of shorter days and the consequent lack of light with something that helps your body to adapt to this new season.
Your reading 64.1>38 fits this scenario like a glove.

breakmov

I can only agree with you on this. Yet this sad depressive condition came to me almost from one day to the other, which wondered me...
A Winter-depression, as I call it, comes every year slowly as the days get shortened. I didn't write it here above but for the first time in my life I've had a longing to be taken Home.
On the other hand, an occurrence that happened to me this summer which maybe - maybe not got roots back to the Spring of 1973 could have triggered this Winter depression in a way so I felt it more heavily than ever before. Partly my English isn't good enough and partly it's such a complex story to tell that I'll avoid wasting any of your time with it.

 

[breakmov]

I hope you can adapt to these tense times that we have all been experiencing in recent years, whether due to the pandemic, the war or its consequences that are slowly accumulating in the general environment of all of us and triggering, in these new times, reactions that perhaps were not expected but put our whole way of life in perspective.
...I wish you health and happiness

breakmov

 

[surnevs]

To know each other is to be preferred when communicating important things, generally.
Here, I don't know any of you, and this can be - or rather is - an advantage as personal interaction can distract one from understanding the subject in matter ie no thoughts about whether advice came from this or that well-known fellow is involved here, it's solely objective or free of any personal view.
After my I Ching reading and publication of it here on this forum, I actually ran into some temptations. Temptations of a kind that demands the state of youth that only young people can enjoy.
I'm not young. And when confronted with them I did not involve myself in it but stepped back, being careful briefly speaking.
When being old one simply must not repeat the youthful folly...

​

I guess that this taking a halt instead of jumping right out/into it I can thank feeling OK today, but about that, I can not be sure, you know, as when the Sun start setting it's setting.

 

[breakmov]

surnevs said:​

I guess that this taking a halt instead of jumping right out/into it I can thank feeling OK today, but about that, I can not be sure, you know, as when the Sun start setting it's setting.

your sentence reminded me of li 利 (association with autumn) and the selection of what is advantageous to retain and that is in harmony with what is beneficial and is right, and to separate and let go of the rest that is not in harmony .
... I wish you strength for this "autumn selection" and ,with joy and harmony, find a treasure worth saving.

breakmov

 

[surnevs]

surnevs said:​

your sentence reminded me of li 利 (association with autumn) and the selection of what is advantageous to retain and that is in harmony with what is beneficial and is right, and to separate and let go of the rest that is not in harmony .
... I wish you strength for this "autumn selection" and ,with joy and harmony, find a treasure worth saving.

breakmov

Thank you! I didn't get that with li. I looked up the Chinese character on the Chinese Etymology site without seeing any reference to autumn. Li, in the Early Heaven trigram arrangement *, on the contrary, is Spring rather than autumn... Or did I get it wrong here ?

*) Li :

 

[breakmov]

When I mentioned li 利, I was using one of the four virtues of Qian

Yuan (元), heng (亨), li (利), zhen (真 )

Bradford Hatcher translation:
volume 1, page 21

But while it is true that these four eventually came to represent the si shi or the four seasons, with all their later symbolic associations and hermetic assignments, this was not at all the case in the Zhouyi. Even if the four characters are a nice fit to the ideas of four seasons (which they are) these associations do not belong in a study of the Zhouyi until you are studying its effects on later culture

and
volume2, pag433 (...or pdf with both volumes, pag1025)

li4 利 18+5 01.0 (to be) advantageous, beneficial, better, effective, favorable, gainful, meriting, profitable, productive, rewarding, worth, worthwhile, warranting, acute, astute, clever, cutting, incisive, keen, sharp (witted), sharpened, shrewd, witty; earned, rewarded by, (turned) to advantage, with merit; (of) advantage, benefit, profit, value, (to); (to) benefit (from, by), earn, help, exploit, favor, gain, harvest, merit, profit, reap, reward, serve to, take advantage of, turn to advantage, make the most of, optimize, warrant (s, ed, ing); (a, the) advantage, benefit, favor, gain, merit, profit, reward, value, worth; dueness, fitness; harvest (of), grounds for; formation, fruition, nourishment (implies a return on time and energy invested, whereas ji2 (0476) is often simply a question of being in the right place at the right time)

breakmov

 

[surnevs]

Thanks for the reply, I'll turn back after diving into this. That these four initiating words from the first hexagram, Qian, could be linked with the four seasons is new to me...

 

[surnevs]

- and it has been there all the time, just me not recognizing it *

​

(from Bent Nielsen, A companion to YiJing)