Too Much Revolution? 49 Unchanging

[arabella]

So if Hexagram 49 is revolution, what happens in 49 unchanging? Twice the revolution, faster revolution, continual revolution, or revolution for a long period of time? Revolution that cancels the original revolution? That is a LOT of change, que no?

My enquiry was about a reply I'm awaiting -- which will inevitably come, however, it's always seemed slow to arrive in the past and sometimes been rather bland. So I asked what will I hear when a reply comes on this occasion? And 49 unchanging was the response from the Yi. Has the usual condition of glacially slow and low-key response altered then? Or could it mean something else? Arabella

 

[icastes]

We have to see what it is that revolution is talking about. It is not just some abstract notion, but an allusion to an actual revolution, the one that King Wen of Zhou overthrew the Emperor Jou of Shang in1122 BCE. It was a good revolution, i.e., the tyrant was overthrown and replaced with a true king. Thus, 49 is the abolishing of the past in a good way, rather than in a bad way. When you get 49 with no changing lines, it simply means that you are in a period of change when everything may change. You must with prudence and courage put things in order, and to maintain the correct path. If you don't, then you will not succeed. In effect, justice must be served and publicly administered, while those who served you with loyalty ought to be rewarded, so to speak.

 

[Liselle]

I have a hard time with unchanging hexagrams, because it seems they could either be emphasizing the basic nature of the hexagram - or signifying the complete opposite, the negation of it.

However, based on experience with this one in particular, it could mean that there will be "no radical change" in the customary reply - that the "usual condition of glacially slow and low-key response" will be repeated in the reply you're currently waiting for.

Where I get this from: someone once took some time away from her usual job to try something, which didn't work out, and I asked Yi what she would do next, in the aftermath. Yi responded with 49 unchanging, and it turned out she went right back to her usual job - "no radical change."

 

[arabella]

I've read traditions of the "unchanging" hexagram in the archives here that say there is no change with a judgement casting -- and then rebuttals that say this isn't true. I wonder if there is a definitive source indicating one way or the other, or if there are particular factors involved?

I've had the feeling there is a revolution going on here,, that something is quite different, and my message was potentially upsetting this time which might trigger a more volatile response anyway. In fact, what I said was atypical, pointed, and required a different answer than the norm. Which is why I cast for this question.

 

[arabella]

I got a bit of a reply today, cryptic, with a request to meet up. Sounds like this person's life is going through some turmoil now. Sounds like it may have to do with the settlement of a Will and disbursement of property? In any case, it has life turned upside down. So 49 makes a lot of sense, no?

 

[Liselle]

This is why I don't know what to do with unchanging hexagrams They seem to be able to mean something, or its complete opposite.

It certainly sounds as if, in your case, 49 unchanging was delivering the message of "revolution" - a big change, turning life upside down as you said. And yet, the example I gave is very factually true with a known outcome, which is why I felt safe using it. Argh. It would be wonderful if there was a good way to tell.

 

[modestlearner]

arabella,

first thought without thinking: the change will be inside you.

Modest Learner.

 

[Trojina]

For me 49 unchanging has signified something needed to end and completely re begin again on a different footing.

I've had this several times re relatonships, not romantic I might add, and looking back the relationship seemed to 'die' so that it seemed completely finished then after a while it began again...but we saw each other differently after the mini 'death'

49 is shedding of a skin thats outgrown and itchy. The moulting needs to happen so the new coat can come...while the new coat is coming it may appear that nothing is happening or the situation has 'died'. I think the existing form of something does die in 49 and I don't think one has alot of choice about it...an old coat is an old coat and can't be stuck back on

Death is a revolution, a transformation from one state to another so with 49 unchanging I might expect the situation as we currently know it to die and perhaps be reborn as another animal altogether

 

[Trojina]

I've read traditions of the "unchanging" hexagram in the archives here that say there is no change with a judgement casting -- and then rebuttals that say this isn't true. I wonder if there is a definitive source indicating one way or the other, or if there are particular factors involved?

I've had the feeling there is a revolution going on here,, that something is quite different, and my message was potentially upsetting this time which might trigger a more volatile response anyway. In fact, what I said was atypical, pointed, and required a different answer than the norm. Which is why I cast for this question.

No of course not afterall who would be the one to state with any certain authority 'unchanging hexagrams mean x' , how would they know ?

I think they can signify a whole range of things and that one comes to divine intuitively why it is unchanging in a particular instance

Hilary once suggested in her blog that unchanging hexagrams could signify situations we can't actually relate to well because we have no subjective stance to them, becasue we haven't yet integrated it into our personal experience...which actually isn't a million miles away from saying this is something that appears out of our control, not subject to our will. Some would say it indicates 'this is how it is' without specific advice...but then other times it can be advice just pretty emphatic. Asking if one should do something 52 unchanging is a pretty definate 'no'


Perhaps it is comparable to a conversation where someone just states flatly how it is...how you interpret that may vary enormously. They could be giving an order, they could be giving advice, they could be trying to drive a point home or they could be saying 'you have no choice that tree is about to fall move out the way' or they could just be describing the view, as in 'this is how it looks'. In conversation we don't insist a flat statement always has one meaning so why do it with unchanging hexagrams

 

[arabella]

For me 49 unchanging has signified something needed to end and completely re begin again on a different footing.

I've had this several times re relatonships, not romantic I might add, and looking back the relationship seemed to 'die' so that it seemed completely finished then after a while it began again...but we saw each other differently after the mini 'death'

49 is shedding of a skin thats outgrown and itchy. The moulting needs to happen so the new coat can come...while the new coat is coming it may appear that nothing is happening or the situation has 'died'. I think the existing form of something does die in 49 and I don't think one has alot of choice about it...an old coat is an old coat and can't be stuck back on

Death is a revolution, a transformation from one state to another so with 49 unchanging I might expect the situation as we currently know it to die and perhaps be reborn as another animal altogether

This feels right. Something major is happening. I'm a bit worried because last time I spoke with him, his tone of voice sounded very upset and he said his wife's estate was about to be settled -- the next day -- and that immediately after he was headed out of the country for a family thing and sounded very grump about it implying he didn't feel like going -- which isn't at all characteristic. I know that the settlement of an estate could be very upsetting and I imagine it means that some of her belongings/furniture, and who knows what else, are likely to go to her adult children now.

Also -- He has some things of mine and he offered to bring them by and see the new flat I moved to in May. I had friends from out of town staying and asked to postpone. So we agreed -- we'd meet up sometime soon.

Now, he suddenly seems to be flying in all directions, home only a day here and there and we can't get coordinated to meet. I'm just concerned he's ok.

And if he's in turmoil I want to know what the outcome might be for him as he doesn't sound himself. And in a selfish way I suppose, I want to know, in my own terms, if this is good, bad, indifferent for me.

And I've asked the Yi to clarify what is going on:

"Why no further word from X on this?
[I'm waiting to hear when/how we're to meet]
Hexagram 25.3.4.5 becoming Hex 22

"Why still no word?" [Waited a day or so and asked again.]
Hexagram 23.2.6 becoming 7
I'm guessing the assumption may be correct that some of his household is being dispersed to his kids?

"How does this revolution affect me?"
Hexagram 45.4 becoming Hexagram 8

"What direct experience will I have of this revolution?
Hexagram 45.4.6 becoming 20

"How can my experience of this revolution be both
fortunate AND upsetting?
Hexagram 1.2.5.6 becoming 55

 

[modestlearner]

ahh...

i reread your original question...what can i expect to hear?....

Answer: Change. Still somehow also feel it is meant for you, too.

Modest Learner.

 

[arabella]

ahh...

i reread your original question...what can i expect to hear?....

Answer: Change. Still somehow also feel it is meant for you, too.

Modest Learner.

Instinctively I feel that this is true. My quandry is whether I'll be glad to hear about it, or sad. The implication of at least one of the castings is, I will be both. And I can't imagine how that is so.

 

[Trojina]

"How can my experience of this revolution be both
fortunate AND upsetting?Hexagram 1.2.5.6 becoming 55

Because upsetting things aren't always unfortunate . Thats nothing to do with Yi its my answer to your question

 

[arabella]

Because upsetting things aren't always unfortunate . Thats nothing to do with Yi its my answer to your question

Well, I thought about that, exactly what you are saying, that I could be fortunate and unfortunate; happy and sad, at the same time? I can't think of any examples, can you?

Was just reading LiSe on Hexagram 45.4.6 and thinking maybe I've taken the text too literally. What LiSe describes for line 4 isn't just "auspicous" or "fortunate" but more about the process of putting your heads together to accomplish something, the best of each to establish an ideal, which of course is "fortunate". Line 6 she doesn't describe in the way I thought it was meant either -- just weeping and wailing over something sad. Rather, she says, If you want to be heard, then make yourself be heard. If you want to accomplish something together, then ask, explain, suggest, inspire - anything which makes them know your intentions or needs. Come out with it! Sounds like a good idea.

Reading that, I'm not feeling so intimidated as I did. Maybe the news is good or at least something I can get my head around.

 

[Trojina]

Well, I thought about that, exactly what you are saying, that I could be fortunate and unfortunate; happy and sad, at the same time? I can't think of any examples, can you?

Was just reading LiSe on Hexagram 45.4.6 and thinking maybe I've taken the text too literally. What LiSe describes for line 4 isn't just "auspicous" or "fortunate" but more about the process of putting your heads together to accomplish something, the best of each to establish an ideal, which of course is "fortunate". Line 6 she doesn't describe in the way I thought it was meant either -- just weeping and wailing over something sad. Rather, she says, If you want to be heard, then make yourself be heard. If you want to accomplish something together, then ask, explain, suggest, inspire - anything which makes them know your intentions or needs. Come out with it! Sounds like a good idea.

Reading that, I'm not feeling so intimidated as I did. Maybe the news is good or at least something I can get my head around.

Ah...only just seen this post as I was reviewing it in light of the current thread here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=13065.....I feel your current situation in that thread is both fortunate in terms of personal growth, looking after yourself and setting limits but also of course quite sad too ? You did something good for yourself...but you may still shed some tears

Maybe it won't go on being sad....but right now in that thread it seems a mixture of feelings...and it was 45.4.6>20 here whereas in the current thread you are actually bang in the middle of the 20. I think 45.4.6 >20 here foretold the answer pretty well to your question which was "what direct experience will I have of this revolution ?"


Do you agree ?


BTW 45 is full of feelings isn't it...crying, and reaching out..its a very emotional hexagram...I think perhaps its what you invest your heart in, where you gather your self and your resources so thats why one is vulnerable and emotional. I never used to see 45 this way but i have certainly found it to be a heart wrencher and I think Hilary suggests in her book you feel vulnerable here because here is where you invested...and afterall what more is there to invest than your heart.

perhaps the 45.4 showed the good fortune in openly communicating your feelings and actually dedicating yourself to the truth, your emotional truth....45.6 the residue of sadness while you are wondering 'is this the end or not '


I think in the long term what you did was more important than whether it is the end of not because it actually reorientates your emotional life in good strong healthy direction so that what you invest in is true (45.4) However I can also see that may be of little comfort when this thing has been disapointing (45.6) And yet what may cause you to weep is likley ultimately incredibly enriching...so it is both upsetting and good fortune

Anyway if the relationship goes on I'd think it would have to come from a fresh basis now...or some way down the line

 

[arabella]

Yes, T, isn't it amazing that I got my example of how something can be beneficial -- "fortunate" but also sad? I couldn't think of a way this would be and yet life has shown me in short order!

Even the sadness is of great benefit because I feel I'm taking a stand here. And I was just out for a long walk now and thinking -- nobody did this to me really. I did it myself because I wanted to believe something that didn't have enough basis. So that is me taking hold of me. And in the course of that I'm probably establishing a better future all the way around because I make strides in self esteem as well. Certainly I wasn't radiating enough of that. I know that saying what I do and don't want is going to have a reverberating effect. I've come at this from a very weak position internally. I've made that change and I'm going to hold onto it because I am convinced.

It's sad only temporarily as I honestly do see by now that this wasn't headed anywhere good. Mainly because I wasn't dealing from a position of strength, which now I am. It could be over and it may not be, meanwhile the tears are worth it, because whatever happens I will choose what I want in a more realistic way. I'm not sure this guy and I are even suited to one another. I don't know what I was investing IN. I just did it because it seemed like a good idea -- an idea I never really tested. Now I've tested what is going on. And even if he doesn't see that yet, he will, and it may effect him or not. But it's mostly for me anyway. For my boundaries and future happiness.

The other VERY interesting thing is what Modestlearner said that the revolution would be within me. IT WAS and it still is. How fascinating. We have some crack-shots in this group I have to say. Now we'll see if what Dragona was feeling will happen -- that it isn't over -- which will mean I have to carry through what I've begun.

I know that the Yi is supposed to work this way -- but I'm amazed how the Yi has both predicted and tracked this experience and I'm amazed that T, rodaki, anemos, modestlearner, dragona, are all picking up the signal so clearly. WOW.:bows:

 

[arabella]

I keep losing my messages on here tonight -- which is driving me mad. But I'll quickly try to reconstruct what I just wrote. That is, i'm not sure where this should be posted as I'm kind of working two threads at once just now -- something I've never done -- but they are so closely allied.

In view of the fact that some feel my situation isn't entirely over yet, although it is somewhat better clarified, and that I may face a response from the other party later on, I've asked the Yi what reaction there will be to the message I've sent and received this reply:

Hexagram 41.1.2.4.5.6 becoming Hexagram 45 [again]. There's a lot of hex 45 out there these days! I'm intrigued that the hex 41.3 line is missing as the situation it describes: three people in a situation and one getting up and leaving -- apparently isn't part of this scenario. I'm not sure that it is actually; i'm not sure what his others relationships/friendship with women mean to him either. The other lines would appear to say that decrease results in increase? In any case, I appear to be protected here and to have taken the right path. Other views are certainly welcome, especially from those who were thinking there is another shoe to drop here.

If 41 represents further "sacrifice" in the situation, or any more sadness, I can't imagine they are from me. I'm at a good position with this now.

 

[arabella]

Just moving this to a better position, where I hope those with ideas about this situation continuing futher will see the new casting! Thanks, Arabella

 

[arabella]

Wow, the threads are moving fast today!

 

[dragona]

Hello, thank you Trojan
Would just like to tell you of my recent hex 45 situation http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=13026 because outside factors were playing an important role in the stagnation there also. Perhaps things are looking up, with this situation tho is one step up, two steps back...will post another tread also

Perhaps you can decide outwards on something, but you have to process it within...thus the revolution, perhaps on 2 fronts, his and yours. My experiances with that hex. were not very good, I would come to some disturbing realisations of others wiew on things, shall we say.

Since this is a man/woman communicating issue, perhaps just give it some time, don`t ask YI questions over again. Let the man sort his things out and than you will see...
Just the other day, I said hi thru the chat to a friend who was quiet for a fews days, saying "Hi, havent`t you missed me?" His reply: "Of course I have, just had nothing new to say." When I repeted that to my other male friend sayin, well, I would never think of THAT reason, he just laughed.

 

[Trojina]

I keep losing my messages on here tonight -- which is driving me mad. But I'll quickly try to reconstruct what I just wrote. That is, i'm not sure where this should be posted as I'm kind of working two threads at once just now -- something I've never done -- but they are so closely allied.

In view of the fact that some feel my situation isn't entirely over yet, although it is somewhat better clarified, and that I may face a response from the other party later on, I've asked the Yi what reaction there will be to the message I've sent and received this reply:

Hexagram 41.1.2.4.5.6 becoming Hexagram 45 [again]. There's a lot of hex 45 out there these days! I'm intrigued that the hex 41.3 line is missing as the situation it describes: three people in a situation and one getting up and leaving -- apparently isn't part of this scenario. I'm not sure that it is actually; i'm not sure what his others relationships/friendship with women mean to him either. The other lines would appear to say that decrease results in increase? In any case, I appear to be protected here and to have taken the right path. Other views are certainly welcome, especially from those who were thinking there is another shoe to drop here.

If 41 represents further "sacrifice" in the situation, or any more sadness, I can't imagine they are from me. I'm at a good position with this now.

Hi Ab you asked me to comment here...but I literally can't. I cannot understand my own answers about others reactions so thats why I don't usually ask....its a variation of 'whats in his mind' question and you know how I feel about those..don't you ? should do I repeated it often enough .but its not just how I feel, the answers to those questions actually don't say anything to me. I really don't know what this says about his reaction....to me its a blank...I cannot venture into what is in his mind ...

If you wanted to know if it was certainly over or if he'd approach I personally would ask for a straight prediction rather than try to suss out his reaction

Besides if you spend time thinking about his reaction you are actually going back to losing strength in this IMO. You may wonder about it...but as I have a zillion times before who here can say with any certainty what is in his mind....and if they did I wouldn't believe them...so I think its an area of private speculation/questioning for you....I don't feel i can help with this question

 

[arabella]

Hi Ab you asked me to comment here...but I literally can't. I cannot understand my own answers about others reactions so thats why I don't usually ask....its a variation of 'whats in his mind' question and you know how I feel about those..don't you ? should do I repeated it often enough .but its not just how I feel, the answers to those questions actually don't say anything to me. I really don't know what this says about his reaction....to me its a blank...I cannot venture into what is in his mind ...

If you wanted to know if it was certainly over or if he'd approach I personally would ask for a straight prediction rather than try to suss out his reaction

Besides if you spend time thinking about his reaction you are actually going back to losing strength in this IMO. You may wonder about it...but as I have a zillion times before who here can say with any certainty what is in his mind....and if they did I wouldn't believe them...so I think its an area of private speculation/questioning for you....I don't feel i can help with this question

Yes, I see what you mean -- it's really a permutation of the "what's he thinking" question; so I'll try turning that around to what I need to know:

Will he make efforts to approach me again?

Casting: Hexagram 42.5 becoming Hexagram 27.

I would take that to mean that he may, but that whatever happens is reasonably good for me and that maybe we can remain friends anyway? Actually 42.5 is about the neighbours, so maybe he gives my stuff to the nieghbours and this chapter is over with?

Or how about this one:

I asked whether this relationship has any life left in it?

Reply: Hexagram 22.2.4 becoming Hexagram 55

Hmm. Maybe that's his winged horse returning my stuff to me rather than handing it to the neighbours? I keep thinking that this will happen and I don't want to fall right back into the same tarpit. I dont' want to respond unless there HAS been a revolution. But I understand Hexagram 22 can be just going through the motions.

I suppose it is my control-freak side that wants an answer to these questions.I ALWAYS have to be ready for what comes next -- even if it's actually impossible to be.

.Arabella

 

[Viru10]

Wanted to ask, is this the de facto 49uc thread for "Your Experiences with Unchanging Hexagrams"? Can't seem to find an official thread for this otherwise. For some reason google directs me to the appropriate threads for the other UC hexagrams except this one.

Edit: The official UC thread for 49 does exist but for some reason google doesn't return it in the search results. I located it via Wikiwing.