Was there ever potential 13.1.4.5 > 52

[lightafterdarkness]

I have been wondering about whether there was ever any potential for a longterm relationship that recently ended.

Was there ever a potential for something long term?
13.1.4.5 > 52

I'm looking for insight on the changing lines and resulting hexagram. If anyone wants to know more bg info, my last thread sheds more light on the situation. I have a feeling the I Ching is saying there is still a potential, but perhaps in a different way.

Info for those who wonder what made me ask:
This is not to say I hope for a return or cannot accept the ending, but it leaves me wondering. We have committed to being friends and I find the break up by itself incredibly constructive, loving and also opening up doors for mutual growth. Unlike other exes, with her we could speak of our mistakes, our inner world, holding each other and learning about our growth points without ego being in the way.I feel that we had a karmic bond and the removal of the relationship pressure allows us to nourish the bond and strengthen it. Not in the way I'd hope, but perhaps the way I need.

 

[Cometta]

Hi Lightafterdarkness,

Was there ever a potential for something long term?
I think the answer is yes, if you would have thought about what makes you defensive, shared it then let it go.

Hex 13 is about being with kindered spirits, so Yi tells you that the potential is there if you choose who to be with.
Hex 52 is about being immovable, the mountain is seen but inaffected, the man in 52 goes into his courtyard and does not see his people.
I see it as an invitation to turn inside and find what makes you still and unshakable, what stays when the elements affects you.

13.1<>33

Wing:
The times are such that a group of people all shares the same needs. They can come together openly with the same goals in mind. This is the beginning of a fellowship. Until the interests of the individuals become divergent all will go well.

Every interaction with people has potential but you don't know if it will last untill you get to know them better. In 33 you keep the inferior man at a distance, not angrily but with reserve.

13.4<>37

Wilhelm/Baynes:
He climbs up on his wall; he cannot attack. Good fortune.

Do you see some defensiveness in you approach? If you could be clear with yourself about your boundaries without being agressive, others will respect them willingly? The structure of a house is built from different elements that can't be replaced, so everyone does its job related to its nature. But separated they are of no use. Perhaps Yi calls you to be more self accepting of your singularity and to join others with confidence?

13.5<>30

Wing:
The difficulties and obstacles within the situation cause you much sorrow. If you openly express your distress you will find that you generate similar expressions from your fellow man. Together you can overcome the difficult time and there will be much joy in your newfound unity.

Yi advices you to find clarity inside of you about your needs first and to make them known? By being open you show who you are, and you make sure that your relationships are genuine and built on a sincere and solid base.

Could you perhaps be hiding some aspects of you that you judge inappropriate or fragile and this harsh judgement about yourself makes you defensive? By opening up more you allow yourself to be loved fully and for who you are, and you have no doubts or regrets about what goes away.

I wish you happy and lasting loves.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

Hi Lightafterdarkness,

Was there ever a potential for something long term?
I think the answer is yes, if you would have thought about what makes you defensive, shared it then let it go.

Hex 13 is about being with kindered spirits, so Yi tells you that the potential is there if you choose who to be with.
Hex 52 is about being immovable, the mountain is seen but inaffected, the man in 52 goes into his courtyard and does not see his people.
I see it as an invitation to turn inside and find what makes you still and unshakable, what stays when the elements affects you.

13.1<>33

Every interaction with people has potential but you don't know if it will last untill you get to know them better. In 33 you keep the inferior man at a distance, not angrily but with reserve.

13.4<>37

Do you see some defensiveness in you approach? If you could be clear with yourself about your boundaries without being agressive, others will respect them willingly? The structure of a house is built from different elements that can't be replaced, so everyone does its job related to its nature. But separated they are of no use. Perhaps Yi calls you to be more self accepting of your singularity and to join others with confidence?

13.5<>30

Yi advices you to find clarity inside of you about your needs first and to make them known? By being open you show who you are, and you make sure that your relationships are genuine and built on a sincere and solid base.

Could you perhaps be hiding some aspects of you that you judge inappropriate or fragile and this harsh judgement about yourself makes you defensive? By opening up more you allow yourself to be loved fully and for who you are, and you have no doubts or regrets about what goes away.

I wish you happy and lasting loves.

Hi Cometta, thank you for your insights and questions.

I actually entered the relationship being very open about my pain points. I was open about my needs and my non negotiables. My ex however did not have the capacity to translate a mental understanding into action cause she lacked the experience and insight to do so.This caused a lack of trust which caused me to feel even more guarded, I tried to forgive and forget but everytime I did a new problem would present itself. Eventually I became reactive and defensive because communicating to her, as best as I could while trying to regulate because my last relationship before her was one I got very hurt in, was met with misunderstanding and defensiveness from her side at times.


So to answer your questions, I do think I communicated my needs and boundaries. I also did feel a lack of trust and self worth because I knew I carried baggage with me and wasn't always showing up the way I wanted to. I communicated this as well. I also was scared to give chances to a person that wouldn't care for my needs (or didn't have the capacity to) and I wasn't sure if it was really a matter of experience, insight and needing time or a lack of empathy. She usually eventually understood where I was coming from, took accountability, apologized and tried to repair but often it took a lot of conflict, energy and time to get to that point. I understand now I shouldn't have tried to overexplain to her but let my feelings and needs be known and then leave her to process her own thoughts about it. My issue is that if someone did something that really hurt me and feels like a non negotiable and it isn't understood, I simply cannot feel safe with them.

So I don't really think I've been hiding who I am, nor did I hide my needs or boundaries. In the end of the relationship I returned to trying to be more still and accept that by being more reactive or negative in trying to get my needs met, maybe even rejecting, I was adding to the negativity. I tried to change the way I approached her but at this time, she was the one consistently approaching me negatively and eventually leaving because she couldn't see things in a positive light anymore.

What do you think the I Ching is telling me, if I did communicate my needs, even initially in a calm way?

 

[Cometta]

There is mourning in both 13.5 and its fan yao 30.5. It describes big differences between people. If we want fellowship with mankind we are invited to look beyond these differences and find what is common in humans. Sometimes there is no common ground and people grow apart.
As you said it is not about stating your needs and expecting them to be fullfilled but more in the sense of opening up with humility and accepting that the other one is different and vulnerable too. She lacks experience from your point of view but from hers she is doing her possible to compensate for what she may felt as a mistake in her past experiences.
She perhaps understood that there is still work to be done. It is not easy either to love someone who lacks trust and self worth and not easy to love truely when one lacks trust.
Perhaps if you were less focused on guilt and hurt and more on the love you have she could have felt more encouraged to find a common ground. The same applies to you.
The advice you received is to stop thinking too much and let go of struggle. You could have had more chances if you were focused on what unites you and more tolerating of what separates you. You actually showed appreciation for the sincerity in your exchange after the breakup because you both allowed yourselves to be vulnerable.
Yi gave you the overall picture of how this relationship could have had potential but first thing try to quit your mind and find a peaceful and floating place, thinking only bring more thoughts.

Wish you all the best

P.s: I am really sorry for my awful english.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

There is mourning in both 13.5 and its fan yao 30.5. It describes big differences between people. If we want fellowship with mankind we are invited to look beyond these differences and find what is common in humans. Sometimes there is no common ground and people grow apart.
As you said it is not about stating your needs and expecting them to be fullfilled but more in the sense of opening up with humility and accepting that the other one is different and vulnerable too. She lacks experience from your point of view but from hers she is doing her possible to compensate for what she may felt as a mistake in her past experiences.
She perhaps understood that there is still work to be done. It is not easy either to love someone who lacks trust and self worth and not easy to love truely when one lacks trust.
Perhaps if you were less focused on guilt and hurt and more on the love you have she could have felt more encouraged to find a common ground. The same applies to you.
The advice you received is to stop thinking too much and let go of struggle. You could have had more chances if you were focused on what unites you and more tolerating of what separates you. You actually showed appreciation for the sincerity in your exchange after the breakup because you both allowed yourselves to be vulnerable.
Yi gave you the overall picture of how this relationship could have had potential but first thing try to quit your mind and find a peaceful and floating place, thinking only bring more thoughts.

Wish you all the best

P.s: I am really sorry for my awful english.

Hi Cometta, first; thanks once again for your valuable input.

I think your words are beautiful and I think in essence it seems simple, but in practice it is not. If it would have mattered, I'd share why I was unable to consistently focus on the love I had. I think in a nutshell, it was because I felt unsafe to love her and felt like my needs or concerns weren't received without first having to overexplain myself and being met with defensiveness. Over time, I felt like I couldn't be vulnerable about my concerns without having to fight. Also I struggled with my own demons that caused me to be confrontational or at least not communicate in the best way.. I tried but my nervous system was working overloads trying to cope. At the end I did make effective changes in the way I approached her but she wasn't able to see me through the lens of love anymore. This enhanced the element of seperation between us and even though I tried, eventually she locked me out cause she was unable to share her inner world and fears at the time being. She regrets this in the end and I actually recognized this in her and pointed it out, but knowing something and recognizing it are two different things.
I think the lifting of the pressure is what allowed the vulnerability to unfold. There was no bigger hurt than the ending so the fears could be lifted.

It is sad, but you are right. I let go and try to no longer ruminate on what has happened, if feelings and thoughts come up I let them be and see if there's a message.. It is unfortunate, but if there's one thing certain in life it's change. And the most foolish thing one can do, is resist it..

I wish you the best as well and thank you once again for your insights and contribution.
Ps. your english is great!

 

[Cometta]

Hex 54 now this hex is about a younger woman marrying an older man which is good here, so it suggests a future together, but this hex also advises you to put a lot of effort and attention into this to make sure that you succeed, and you can if you are prepared to work the problem through.

Your first reading was about you!
Willowfox has summed up both your questions very well.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

Your first reading was about you!
Willowfox has summed up both your questions very well.

I'm trying to put the pieces together of Hex 54.1.2.4 but the original question, you and rosada I believe both referred to the reading as being about my ex.

The question was also about her behavior being confusing, so loving while leaving me.

How would you say it could apply to me? I think hex 54 reflects the original potential, relating to this reading. The older man might be me, or her. She's older than me but I had my first serious real life relationship almost a decade ago while I am her first real life relationship. Making it work would take a lot of effort and attention, in this case from both sides.

I don't fully see how it is about me but I can relate it to her..
Line 1 could be her trying to make the best out of it (trying to be my friend)
Line 2 could be her lack of commitment and being sure of not wanting to commit (which is something she confirmed)
Line 4 could be her holding back her feelings (delayed marriage) and holding on to her principles? Or perhaps it is a delayed 'marriage' in the sense of not wanting to be in a relationship now and holding back her feelings for me, to find something more aligning with her principles in the future.The lines are what eventually turns into the lack of that commitment that it needs to work out. The change to hexagram 2 could again resemble holding back, or not taking action, perhaps no effort? I'm a bit lost..

 

[rosada]

A brief thought about the original question -
Was there ever a potential for something long term?
13. Fellowship with men in the wild (Wilhelm).
52. Keeping Still.
Just looking at these hexagrams to answer your specific question (without also trying to get insight as to why) it seems the I Ching is advising you that there were indeed limits to the friendship potential here. 13.5 suggests you could have some great conversations but 52 says this is as far as it goes. So friendship but not soulmates. Don’t beat yourself up thinking things could have been different!

Someone once posted what I think is a very useful insight about 13 - it is about fellowship with people in the wild, that is, people who are outside one’s usual circle and very different from one’s own tribe, and the emphasis is on learning to relate to people from all different points a view but it’s not a hexagram about putting down roots. Indeed the last line, 13.6, is about being able to make friends and move on.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

A brief thought about the original question -
Was there ever a potential for something long term?
13. Fellowship with men in the wild (Wilhelm).
52. Keeping Still.
Just looking at these hexagrams to answer your specific question (without also trying to get insight as to why) it seems the I Ching is advising you that there were indeed limits to the friendship potential here. 13.5 suggests you could have some great conversations but 52 says this is as far as it goes. So friendship but not soulmates. Don’t beat yourself up thinking things could have been different!

Someone once posted what I think is a very useful insight about 13 - it is about fellowship with people in the wild, that is, people who are outside one’s usual circle and very different from one’s own tribe, and the emphasis is on learning to relate to people from all different points a view but it’s not a hexagram about putting down roots. Indeed the last line, 13.6, is about being able to make friends and move on.

Interesting, Rosada! I feel like my ex partner and I had somewhat of a karmic connection. We both triggered some shadows in each other and what came exposed gave us deeper insight into ourselves as a result. However, this was because we had some similarities but were polar opposites in others. So the different tribe thing rings a bell. In some ways it was like we were from the same land but different tribe and had conflicting differences. A fellowship, but returning to my own roots and moving on.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

A brief thought about the original question -
Was there ever a potential for something long term?
13. Fellowship with men in the wild (Wilhelm).
52. Keeping Still.
Just looking at these hexagrams to answer your specific question (without also trying to get insight as to why) it seems the I Ching is advising you that there were indeed limits to the friendship potential here. 13.5 suggests you could have some great conversations but 52 says this is as far as it goes. So friendship but not soulmates. Don’t beat yourself up thinking things could have been different!

Someone once posted what I think is a very useful insight about 13 - it is about fellowship with people in the wild, that is, people who are outside one’s usual circle and very different from one’s own tribe, and the emphasis is on learning to relate to people from all different points a view but it’s not a hexagram about putting down roots. Indeed the last line, 13.6, is about being able to make friends and move on.

Also Rosada, did you mean line 6 or was this a typo? There's no line 6 in my reading. Not sure if I misunderstood how this applied to the reading!

 

[rosada]

I referenced line 6 because I think sometimes it’s worth looking at the surrounding lines to get a clearer understanding of the meaning of the line you actually got. For example, in this reading you got line 5 which says “Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament, but afterwards they laugh. After great struggles they succeed in meeting.” From this one might assume “Oh this is wonderful. Surely this means the relationship could grow to commitment and living happily ever after!” But if we look at where the 13. energy grows to from there it doesn’t point to commitment but rather 13.6 says “Fellowship with men in the meadow. No remorse, “ meaning that when one has learned how to make friends with Men in The Wild it doesn’t necessarily lead to romance but it does suggest that once we’ve mastered being able to make friends then from there we are able to make friends where ever we go, whatever meadow we wander into and although the relationships aren’t as intense as one might want from a lifetime partner, still there is “no remorse”.
Interesting too 13.5 leads to hexagram 14. Suggesting having the ability to make friends is indeed a wonderful gift, a Possession in Great measure.

Anyway, reading all the lines to understand a single one better can involve some tricky mental gymnastics, and not everyone enjoys this approach.

 

[rosada]

Just now noting how 52 is the image of two mountains side by side yet not communicating, not acknowledging the other, like two people that don’t interact.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

I referenced line 6 because I think sometimes it’s worth looking at the surrounding lines to get a clearer understanding of the meaning of the line you actually got. For example, in this reading you got line 5 which says “Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament, but afterwards they laugh. After great struggles they succeed in meeting.” From this one might assume “Oh this is wonderful. Surely this means the relationship could grow to commitment and living happily ever after!” But if we look at where the 13. energy grows to from there it doesn’t point to commitment but rather 13.6 says “Fellowship with men in the meadow. No remorse, “ meaning that when one has learned how to make friends with Men in The Wild it doesn’t necessarily lead to romance but it does suggest that once we’ve mastered being able to make friends then from there we are able to make friends where ever we go, whatever meadow we wander into and although the relationships aren’t as intense as one might want from a lifetime partner, still there is “no remorse”.
Interesting too 13.5 leads to hexagram 13. Suggesting having the ability to make friends is indeed a wonderful gift, a Possession in Great measure.

Anyway, reading all the lines to understand a single one better can involve some tricky mental gymnastics, and not everyone enjoys this approach.

Hi Rosada, thanks for your explanation!

I actually think line 5 might resemble that! Your insight (and those of the others) might have been the final puzzle piece. I won't be able to have this potential that I wanted (a life partner) yet still some ability to make a friendship. "Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament resembles the situation me and my ex are in now. We are both heart broken. The line follows > afterwards they laugh, after great struggles they succes in meeting.

Our vision is to give each other time but stay in contact through handwritten letters to move on and slowly work to build a friendship. I received a package with handwritten letters, crocheted hand warmers and other gifts. We share controlled bits and pieces of our processing of the break up, but mainly give each other updates of our life and hope to support each other's journey someday. Still, we mourn. The struggle could represent moving on.

I think the i Ching is just reflecting the situation back to me, confirming that the potential is friendship?
Line 1 was the original potential. The connection.
Line 4 is the defensive energy and walls that prevented the relationship from coming together and created raptures.
Line 5 resembles the result/end potential?, us weeping but eventually trying to connect and share laughter.

I think Hexagram 52 is still puzzling me, either way it could be the stagnation that was preventing the potential of the connection (the disconnect) or maybe it can represent us standing next to each other metaphorically, but focusing on ourselves moving forward. I think most of all, it could represent to accept the limitations of the situation?