WB Blunders.

[candid]

While Wilhelm is still my go-to translation, my personal experience has drawn different meanings or connotations than those found in certain hexagrams.

This isn?t designed to ridicule the translation, just to get other people?s experience with them in the open to discuss. Sort of compare notes.

One such example for me is in 21 Biting through. The picture in WB is that of punishment or lawsuit. I?ve not found this to be always the case. In my life its meant something simpler, like, Act! Decide! Determine!

Anyone else have an example from your own personal experience?

Candid

 

[willow]

#44, with it's emphasis on inferior and superior. Actually, my sense of 44 these days is that I don't even think anymore that it's you (querant) making a connection with a powerful force - I think that it's an alert that two powerful forces (that belong together, or work together) will be making a connection THROUGH you.

 

[chrislofting]

Candid,

you wrote:
>
> While Wilhelm is still my go-to translation, my personal
> experience has drawn different meanings or connotations than
> those found in certain hexagrams.
>
> This isn?t designed to ridicule the translation, just to get
> other people?s experience with them in the open to discuss.
> Sort of compare notes.
>
> One such example for me is in 21 Biting through. The picture
> in WB is that of punishment or lawsuit. I?ve not found this
> to be always the case. In my life its meant something
> simpler, like, Act! Decide! Determine!
>
> Anyone else have an example from your own personal
> experience?
>

zoom-in to the very geneal level of our species-nature and the hexagram of 21 reflects a generic quality of a context of dynamic relationships reflected as expanding (aka expansive binding) within which, or from which, we find a parts focus (expansive bounding, 'this' from 'that').

binding reflects the forming of a relationship through sharing of time, a focus on sequencing - e.g. a business contract or a law of some form that forces interaction but allows for the sharing to be broken or finished (as in business where once completed all parties go on their way). Thus we can 'bind' with something, e.g. a law, new perspective, etc and that can be 'enlightening' - it becomes part of our toolkit in development.

bounding reflects the differentiation of 'in here' from 'out there'. The expanding focus means we try to push the boundary outwards (contracting means the boundary holds something in, protects and as such reflects the trigram of water rather than fire)

A rule/law/'new' perspective etc is reflected in expansive binding. Its application is immediate (the 'suddeness' of discovery) and can be reflected in bounding (as in those who 'do' and those who 'dont', accepting the perspective etc and so an ideology)

Problem solving reflects the overall focus on facing some issue (as in being in a 'bind') and a need to resolve it and move on where the resolution becomes part of the set of solved problems ('in here') vs the possibility of more problems to come (as in expansive bounding, pushing out the borders).

ANYTHING, any situation, that fits into these generics will fit hexagram 21.

If we move to the trigrams of the I Ching, we can read the hexagram from bottom to top as 'with enlightenment' comes direction-setting (an ideology, useful perspective etc) thus the overall focus is on problem solving. We can see this process at work in legal terms of making judgments etc, and with the 'sudden' discovery of a solution to a problem and so in general problem solving.

Move to the hexagram of the I Ching and we have:

"SHIH HO -
SHIH : bit away, chew; bite persistently and remove; snap at, nibble; reach the essential by removing the unnecessary. The ideogram: mouth and divination, revealing the essential..

HO : close the jaws, bite through, crush between teeth. The ideogram: mouth and conver, jaws fit together as a lid fits a vessel." ERANOS p276

Note that:

"The generic properties of hexagram 21 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 51 with the generic properties of hexagram 16.
Combining a sense of enlightenment/awareness (51) with a focus on the use of foresight (16) is reflected in the problem-solving focus of hexagram 21"

The suddeness is reflected in 51, the sequencing, the planning, use of foresight and enthusiasm, in hexagram 16. These GENERICS form the roots out of which 21 develops. (by this I mean that we dampen the qualities of 51 and 16, play them down to reflect very rough qualities, the clay from which 21 emerges)

Of note is that *contractive binding* is reflected in the trigram of wind. the dynamic relationships there reflect 'cooking' the raw to be refined as compared to the 'eureka!' nature of expansive binding (thunder).

W/B is for me more 'historical' than useful these days where a reading of such texts as the Eranos text (Ritsema and Karcher) aids in taking us outside of the Wilhelm mindset ;-) W/B is not THE translation/interpretation but A translation/interpretation that, IMHO has missed a LOT of what is going on in the I Ching but is responsible for the wide use of the I Ching in the 'early years' of I Ching development in the West. (Note I have not seen any improvement by Karcher in his numerous books on the IC since the original Eranos material was published and as such favour that original text over Karcher's more recent interpretations)

For some additional I Ching texts see http://pages.prodigy.net/lofting/irefs.html

Chris.

 

[chrislofting]

Willow,

you wrote:
>
> #44, with it's emphasis on inferior and superior.
> Actually, my sense of 44 these days is that I don't even
> think anymore that it's you (querant) making a connection
> with a powerful force - I think that it's an alert that two
> powerful forces (that belong together, or work together)
> will be making a connection THROUGH you.
>

the species-nature level of meaning encodes hexagram 44 with the generic senses of a context of contractive binding (a relationship over time, a dynamic relationship) within which, or from which, operates a sense of expansive blending (a sense of, a focus upon wholeness where that is achieved through expanding into the context and as such taking-over that context)

Thus we have a link refined in trigrams of singlemindedness (heaven trigram in top position) operating within a context of cultivation (dynamic relationship that refines, 'cooks' the raw, wind trigram in the lower position).

ANY situation/event that reflects these generic properties will map to hexagram 44.

44 = "KOU : intense, driven encounter, at once transitory and enduring, that is the reflection of primal yin and yang; meet, encounter, copulate; mating animals; magnatism, gravity; to be gripped by impersonal forces." ERANOS p483

Note the focus on 'driven encounter' and so a sense of 'singlemindedness' together with the sense of persuation/seduction involved that is 'instinctive' - "gripped by impersonal forces". The sense of persuation/seduction reflects the cultivating/influence-seeking nature of the wind trigram.

The derivation process of the hexagrams elicits the roots of 44 as:

"The generic properties of hexagram 44 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 28 with the generic properties of hexagram 43.
A combination of excess, of going beyond what is required, (28), with a focus on 'seeding', on 'spreading the word' (43) is reflected in the focus on persuation/seduction in hexagram 44."

Note that we dampen the qualities of 28 and 43 to be 'generic' qualities, clay/mud from which emerges 44.

Also note that when we introduce five-phase associations so 44 reflects competitive exchange (METAL) operating in a context of re-production (WOOD). (WOOD comes in two flavours, production (thunder) and re-production (wind). METAL comes in two flavours, competitive exchange (heaven) and cooperative exchange (lake))

Chris.

 

[hmesker]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

One such example for me is in 21 Biting through. The picture in WB is that of punishment or lawsuit. I¡¯ve not found this to be always the case. In my life its meant something simpler, like, Act! Decide! Determine!<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, the I Ching specifically speaks of a lawsuit in The Judgment: "heng li yong yu", where "yu" (also) means 'lawsuit'. Therefore it isn't strange that Wilhelm talks about lawsuits. But of course the imagery of a lawsuit can indeed mean what it does to you: to act, decide and determine. That's exactly what is needed in a lawsuit.

Harmen.

 

[candid]

I realize that 21 specifically speaks of lawsuit, of biting through obstacles. It?s the punitive aspect which does not always apply. Punishment, as spoken of in WB, is not always applicable. Its this harsh moral binding that, in my practical experience, does not always apply. 21?s central theme ought not be about punishment, as WB depicts, but as resolution of conflict. This requires a judgment or decision, but not necessarily a punishment.

The same moral casting applies (in my opinion) to Willow?s 44. Inferior and superior misses the point, especially where balance and integration are concerned. What difference does it make what is superior or inferior? What matters is the connection, as Willow put it, and what seeding, as Chris put it, takes place between these two forces.

Likewise, the casting of dark nature (yin) in general as inferior also misses the point of connection and integration of natural forces. Its seems that Wilhelm?s western view of the world brings to bear this materialistic and moral casting. I don?t object to it but neither do I agree with it literally. Good and evil seems distinctly a western Judeo/Christian concept, one that, I believe, misses the spirit of the law.

A mountain lion kills a rabbit. Is the lion or the rabbit inferior, and was the rabbit being punished, or the lion rewarded, morally? Or, is this simply a balancing of natural forces? Without the lion rabbits would over-populate. Without the rabbit the lion would die. I see no morality involved in this, only a life lesson.

Candid

 

[chrislofting]

Candid,

you wrote:
>
> Likewise, the casting of dark nature (yin) in general as
> inferior also misses the point of connection and integration
> of natural forces. Its seems that Wilhelm?s western view of
> the world brings to bear this materialistic and moral
> casting. I don?t object to it but neither do I agree with it
> literally. Good and evil seems distinctly a western
> Judeo/Christian concept, one that, I believe, misses the
> spirit of the law.
>

The difference here is in the exaggeration aspects of Western perspectives vs the more dampening aspect of the more Eastern perspectives. The dynamic from the species sense is across both elements of the West/East dichotomy. What we see are BIASES in that WITHIN the Western we will find the Eastern, WITHIN the Eastern we will find the Western - within yang we find yin etc etc etc

The focus on PRECISION we find in the West is exaggerated as in STRONGLY binary in focus and as such an idealist focus, a universals focus, on clear distinctions of 'good/bad'. This drive for clear, precise, identifications only come with idealism. The more 'pragmatic', context-sensitive perspective is less ideal, more real but in being more real is more into WHOLES than PARTS and as such can lack the 'ideal' precision that is seeked in the West.

Thus Western interpretations of hexagrams are often 'rigid' but as such are too rigid, the precision is possible but at a lesser-degree of precision that in its context is very precise! ;-)

I recall the chinese story of the farmer who had a son who broke his foot in the fields. All of the farmer's friends commented how unluckly that was - the farmer replied 'perhaps'. The next day the emperor's soldiers came to the village and recruited all able-bodied males to fight for the emperior - the son, due to his broken foot, was rejected. The farmer's friends commented on how lucky this was - the farmer replied 'perhaps' etc etc.

When we review the characteristics of five-phase, not in their specifically chinese perspective but in their apparent universal form (as in we can map the phases to the binary sequences of the I Ching which in turn we can map to the generic dynamics of the brain in the context of differentiations/integrations) so the Western approach is more competitive, differentiating, as compared to the cooperative, integrating, approach that is more often reflected in Eastern perspectives.

In learning martial arts the focus is precise but also intended as a last resort. Western perspectives of martial arts lose the 'philosophical' aspects, the protect element, and focus more on exploitation and the expression, the competitive nature.

To understand ALL of the differences and samenesses in West/East requires only the careful analysis of the generic patterns in meaning reflected in the basic binary sequence of the I Ching.

For example, in the octet of hexagrams with wind as base (and so 44 is one of them - 46, 18, 48, 57, 32, 50, 28, 44), due to the method of derivation of yin/yang so the basic distinction of yin/yang, and so in this particular case of East/West, hexagram 44 reflects an EXAGGERATION of the characteristics of 46, its 'opposite' within the octet. Thus the focus on getting more entangled with someone/something we find in 46 is 'gentle' in form and focused on maintaing integrity, and so integration and so balance, overall. Move to 44 and you see the exaggerate form of this process.

There is a LOT of work to be done in fleshing-out the properties of this 'dimension' we find dominating our thinking, our categories etc etc., and as such 'transcend' the differences of East/West where it is context that elicits responses and as such in some cases a 'western' perspective is better, in others an 'eastern' perspective as well as all inbetween! ;-)

The Western approach to the IC as such is focused on precision, on clear identifications of PARTS that we can then re-integrate into the WHOLE that is the IC and so refine the IC and ourselves. In doing so we reduce the exaggerations and return to the whole - but a whole now clearly identified if only intuitiverly experienced ;-)

Chris.

 

[candid]

Wow, really well communicated, Chris! Appreciated.

That word you often use, "exaggerated", is one that's been on my mind a great deal lately. And I've realized that its these strong, evoking statements and images used in IC, especially Wilhelm, that makes connection to the subject of my inquiry. It "reaches out and touches" me, striking resonant chords in my psyche, and auto-activating corrective thoughts and actions - not based on any moral foundation, but on a fundamental survival level. This is more than simply the survival of my body. Much more. Its the survival of my ideals, principles and personal moral codes. Its also the survival of my past, my errors, and my lessons.

I think you'd call that: survival of the (whole) species?

 

[chrislofting]

Hi Candid,

you wrote:
> Wow, really well communicated, Chris! Appreciated.
>

cool!

> That word you often use, "exaggerated", is one that's been
> on my mind a great deal lately. And I've realized that its
> these strong, evoking statements and images used in IC,
> especially Wilhelm, that makes connection to the subject of
> my inquiry. It "reaches out and touches" me, striking
> resonant chords in my psyche, and auto-activating corrective
> thoughts and actions - not based on any moral foundation,
> but on a fundamental survival level. This is more than
> simply the survival of my body. Much more. Its the survival
> of my ideals, principles and personal moral codes. Its also
> the survival of my past, my errors, and my lessons.
>
> I think you'd call that: survival of the (whole) species?
>

;-) more so of consciousness. The realm of the exaggerating is the realm of yang overall. This is a realm of motivation, invigoration, ideology. It is a realm of problem solving and sensation seeking, extremes. It is a realm of the charismatic leadership etc etc and as such 'lifts' the spirit and so is hierarchic and into power/control etc. and the assertion of the context rather than adaption of a context.

The 'problems' are that the exaggerating-realm is also single minded, over-focused on the particular that it interprets as if a whole. Note in your comments above re issues of survival and of your ideals, principles etc IOW the defence of them as well as the promotion of them and through them ones own sense of identity. That focus, when placed under pressure is reflected in a competitive approach, a focus on asserting one's perspective as a replacement for others. Lessen the energy and the focus is not so competitive, more cooperative, in that co-existence is accepted (integrating overall) more so than replacement.

'Western' perspectives on negation are in the form of analytical negation - the total and utter rejection of something, its erradication, its total exclusion. The more 'Eastern' perspectives on negation are in the form of dialectical negation where some, or even all, of that which is negated is kept in case it may be useful in some different context, it is just not 'appropriate' in the current context (but some 'bits' may be used).

Thus the 'Western' perspective reflects the Law of Identity, A = A (the changeless, tautology rules). The 'Eastern' perspective is closer to the Law of Non-Identity, A != A (all is change). As such, in the West evil is evil, it is a universal. In the East context determines things more so such that what is evil for one can be good for another and can transform to be good for one! ;-)

Our species perspective is to BOTH laws ;-) where the Law of Identity, A = A, is an EXAGGERATION of the more dialectical perspective (A != A). Zoom-in on Western philosophy and you will find those who focus on change but there is a bias to non-change, a sense of the 'eternal' and assertion of identity 'for ever'. Strongly rooted in idealism, in the assertion of identity 'precisely'.

Your last paragraph suggests a focus on PROTECTION and an overall sense of, a concern with, protecting one's history as that is a form of identity. This is a more YIN perspective, an integrating perspective, in that the aim is asserting identity THROUGH integrating with the context where that context are particular belief systems, past events etc. This is an evolution-driven perspective.

If a focus is on integrating overall, then exaggerations are done WITHIN that context and if we take the trigram of heaven as exaggerating, differentiating, and the trigram of earth as balancing, integrating, then you get hexagram 12 in its form of 'defending the faith' (the 'negative' vibe for 12 is in that it favours a belief system over others and that is considered 'non-change' and so 'negative' in the context of the book of changes! ;-)) By defending your faith/beliefs so that competitiveness serves to validate your faith in those beliefs and so your sense of identity.

The more differentiating individuals are into sensation seeking, the 'buzz', rather than identity seeking. Thus the charismatics attempt to take-over the context, to assert what 'should be', what 'will be' and focus more on exploitation than protection and so a focus on revolution over evolution.

Chris.

 

[candid]

Excellent.