What progress with son 14>57

[ontheroad]

Over the last couple of years I've become estranged with my oldest son and semi estranged with my middle son. Semi estranged is probably a more difficult relationship to navigate although for myself I just found a way to be at peace with it unless and until.

Overnight my middle son has sent me a lovely voicemail/email and sounds like he's in quite a good mental state of being. He revealed he'd been on the verge of suicide but has moved well and truly past that now. My intuition had told me that may have been the case some weeks ago but as he's pushed me away that many times I knew there was nothing I could do to help and quite possibly had I done anything it may well have pushed him over the edge.
I was quite surprised to receive the email given only in January this year he'd sent me an email saying he loved me but stay away - very confusing for me especially as he wouldn't reveal what the issue was.
I still don't know really and he's being 'treated' for anxiety and depression by his own chosen way ie. medication by a psychiatrist.

We see life a lot differently in many ways and he's quite narrow minded and verbally aggressive if he doesn't agree with you so there's been periods where it's like treading on eggshells and I just got over it so have left things in his 'court' to communicate (or not) with me.

However, I feel this communication was a lot different and have responded in kind. Also I've been housesitting within an hour or so drive from him and will continue to do so until September this year and as far as I know he was unaware I was so close to where he lives. I did tell him in the email although just in passing, not wow guess what I'm not far away.


How will our relationship progress over the next 3 months
14.1.4.5>57

This looks like we will move forward in a positive way as long as I continue to let him lead the way.

 

[steve]

Hi

Such a serious situation for you or touchy maybe a better word.

Line I feel you are making the right choice to keep the relationship low key, i do not belive you can force this situation. Like you said, and the reading has confirmed you are indeed walking on egg shells. However, you are aware of that,

Line 5 Does suggest progress, perhaps your gentle approach will build trust over time. Much like trying to capture a wild horse in the wild. You do not want to spook it.

Line 6 For me is highly auspicious it could be a reward for your patience, the key to it all suggests line 1 are the first steps. So it could be crucial not to blow it if you know what i mean. This could set you on a whole new path.

Hexagram 57 appears to be wholeness of the question and reinforcing a gentle approach.

I really hope it works out for you,

Be well

PS Maybe ask questions about steps for yourself to be more at peace with things. Positive energy has a knock on effect.

 

[ontheroad]

Thanks Steve - it was lines 1.4.5 and I am at Peace about it. I can look at it from a mothers point of view and I can separate it and look at it from a person point of view.

 

[my_key]

How will our relationship progress over the next 3 months
14.1.4.5>57

This looks like we will move forward in a positive way as long as I continue to let him lead the way.

'Great Harvest' through 'Proceeding Humbly'

14, in the image, indicates the best course of action for the relationship is to keep a lid on negative emotions so that positive change is the order of the day. This when taken in context of 57 imbues the progress with a sense of allowing the relationship to take it's natural course through embracing positivity - there may, though, still be ups and downs to come.
14.1- let things unfold
14.4 - without forcing them
14.5 - then what will be will be.

... or you might see some difference in the detail.

Good Luck.

 

[ontheroad]

Thanks my_key. I guess at the moment I don't trust it because I don't understand what happened in the first place.

 

[HansKr]

Your question seems to imply that the development of the relationship between you and your son is fixed, so to speak, and whether the oracle wants to show you what that "path" looks like, so to speak. Personally, I am of the opinion that the oracle does not predict the future, but rather shows the result of a certain choice, but as said that is my personal opinion.
In this case, I see H14 -> H57 rather as advice on how to deal with the situation. H57 in particular seems to indicate this. Twice trigram Wind. This trigram is about long-term, step-by-step development and communication.
H14, as I see it, shows your part in this situation.
Below is trigram Heaven, this is about structures, control and authority. The upper trigram Fire is about clarity, insight and adherence to one's own truth.

We see life a lot differently in many ways and he's quite narrow minded and verbally aggressive if he doesn't agree with you.

The way you write this down, it seems you are right and he is wrong. But are you sure about that? That he becomes verbally aggressive has nothing to do with whether his ideas or views are right, it could also be the result of pure frustration because you are not listening to him. H14 seems to indicate this, because trigram Heaven and Fire are not the trigrams that are open to another person's opinion. Both say: look at me. Hence, H14 is named Great Possession.
H14 forms a pair together with H13. H13 is about harmony between people. When you have the Great Possession, it is especially important to maintain Harmony between people.

Hope this helps and remember, this is just my interpretation. Take what resonates and leave the rest.

 

[my_key]

Thanks my_key. I guess at the moment I don't trust it because I don't understand what happened in the first place.

It's linking to those thoughts of unknowing or uncertainty that I suspect 14 is prompting you to disregard. I hope that between you both, you are able to uncover the best relationship that you can.

Good Luck

 

[ontheroad]

The way you write this down, it seems you are right and he is wrong. But are you sure about that? That he becomes verbally aggressive has nothing to do with whether his ideas or views are right, it could also be the result of pure frustration because you are not listening to him. H14 seems to indicate this, because trigram Heaven and Fire are not the trigrams that are open to another person's opinion. Both say: look at me. Hence, H14 is named Great Possession.

Oh I do wish that was true!! It's easier (for me) to take accountability than hope someone else will. Perhaps the way I've worded it is MY frustration that he won't hear me.
I brought my 3 children up to be independent thinkers and from the age of 15 they were able make their own decisions as I believe, as parents, we're just their to guide them.
This young man has a history of destroying relationships, including a short period with his 2 brothers at different times over the years. Fortunately it sorted itself out with his brothers at least, but the youngest, who is as openminded as me, tells me he's still the same. They had a fallout years ago when they were both still very young and overseas for the first time. That year, the youngest was so distraught he wouldn't spend Christmas with us and I didn't blame him after I heard what happened.
The youngest, who I speak to on a regular basis although he now lives overseas told me yesterday, that his brother has finally realised that the methods he's been using to try and overcome his anxiety and depression are not working and he's open to looking at other ways.
That's a breakthrough!!
My 'issue' I is if he doesn't tell me WHY he holds me very highly as his mother but seems resistant to having an active relationship with me, we can't sort it out.
I've asked him. I've asked his brother if he knows and he's said he's been left in the dark too. Sadly, my youngest has said he'll never come back home to live because of all this and all he wants is for us to sort everything out. Me too. But again I can't if my children won't tell me what the problem is.

 

[ontheroad]

He finally told me what the issue is/was....all a bit dramatic really but I think we'll sort things out from here.

All that responded to my post were right in the different ways this situation has evolved and the truth of the matter.

 

[ontheroad]

As this stands my middle son came up with another 'issue' to NOT have an going relationship with me some months ago now, at the same time saying how much he loves me as a mother and a person.

 

[eowyndernhelme]

Hey, Ms. Kerouac, helicopter mother of two sons here. I may not have seen it above, but have you done a more recent casting? If not, would you?

 

[ontheroad]

Hey, Ms. Kerouac, helicopter mother of two sons here. I may not have seen it above, but have you done a more recent casting? If not, would you?

Yes I have.

How will our relationship progress over the next 3 months
Hex 52.6>15

Pretty much a reflection of where it's been sitting since I last heard from him.
Friendly but not much progress in terms of our relationship. Perhaps inner progress for him, certainly for me.
Finally, I've got angry with him about some awful behaviours of the past so at this point it's best if he doesn't contact me because I'd have quite a bit to say. I hesitate to speak up given his mental health issues and serious suicidal thoughts last year. Suicide is part of the history of his paternal family.

 

[thisismybody]

As this stands my middle son came up with another 'issue' to NOT have an going relationship with me some months ago now, at the same time saying how much he loves me as a mother and a person.

In regards to the original cast, 14 as a symbol of the good you have in relation to your son (the love) and 57 as something else that‘s subtly permeating this 14 (his instability)? The love remains (14), but whatever belief he carries as a seal of sorts (57) guides him to cling to disharmony?

14.1 - stay away from his self-created negativity, bc you can’t change it or control him
14.4 - again, not your possession to fix
14.5 - your love for him and genuine care as his mother and as a person does strike a chord within him…

but he’s got his own issues to heal… Could the seal of 57 be his cross to bear—that his mind and the winds (thoughts) of his mind are the issue? The lines of 57 focus on how we use our minds to for better or worse to penetrate issues.

Can you love him as he wishes and not let it be a reflection on you? I like 14 as a focus on what one has that’s good, like if one had a blessing and was so grateful for it.

Seeing your new post…

Do you remember holding him as a baby? I imagine you do. When you feel that anger, perhaps hold him in your mind as that baby. Maybe the original 14 is about forgiveness as your great possession.

Great-hearted stilling. Looks like an image of rocking a baby near one’s heart.

Wishing you progress in great measure with your son.

 

[ontheroad]

thisismybodythank you very much - that's exactly how I see things re the 14>57 cast.
I have forgiven him, there's no doubt about that.
Actually my only issue would be, if he attempts to communicate with me AGAIN before he's sorted himself out fully and continues with the blame game. That's where I would put a stop to it. He keeps changing the reason for keeping us semi estranged. I think in leui of what he is doing at the moment, in regards to our relationship, is the cause for me to have the angst as I had forgiven him and hoped we could just move on.

 

[thisismybody]

I understand that. It sucks to have to step on eggshells around anyone. What would happen if you didn’t and just called his bluff? Not in some angry, mean way, but maybe telling him that you’ve moved on and hope he can too. But if he can’t, you’re not dealing with blame anymore. What’s done is done. And see what he says. He’s your son, but he’s still people. Sometimes we have to put people in the right place (in their place, so to speak), no matter how much we love them. And then surrender to whatever unfolds. And without worrying that we’ve caused their world to crumble. Do whatever stills your heart in peace.

So, you decided not to go be a monk in the mountains. Instead, you had 3 children. What’s the difference? A great-hearted trying of the will. Haha.

 

[ontheroad]

I understand that. It sucks to have to step on eggshells around anyone. What would happen if you didn’t and just called his bluff? Not in some angry, mean way, but maybe telling him that you’ve moved on and hope he can too. But if he can’t, you’re not dealing with blame anymore. What’s done is done. And see what he says. He’s your son, but he’s still people. Sometimes we have to put people in the right place (in their place, so to speak), no matter how much we love them. And then surrender to whatever unfolds. And without worrying that we’ve caused their world to crumble. Do whatever stills your heart in peace.

So, you decided not to go be a monk in the mountains. Instead, you had 3 children. What’s the difference? A great-hearted trying of the will. Haha.

The only thing that stops is the suicide potential. It was a real moment, I felt it at the time (psychically) though I didn't say anything and then my youngest mentioned the state of being his brother was in. Then some months later, when the middle son contacted me, he told me about it. I reckon he can't feel worse than he already does and I reckon he feels as guilty as anything hence his hesitation to try and breach the gap between us.
He's the only one that can fix him and I'm just sitting out unless and until....

 

[thisismybody]

True. So then 52.6 is guidance on what to do as well as a hope for him.