What will happen if I leave 45 uc

[lightafterdarkness]

Hi everyone,

I'm in a situation where I've been caught up between my heart and mind. I'm not sure what the right thing to do is, nor does my heart know. Staying in the situation hurts, but has some benefits although I am not sure if it's worth it because it makes it harder to let go. Getting out of it will hurt, but might eventually save me some pain (although I am unsure)

By asking the I Ching "What will happen if I confess it's hurting me too much and choose to walk away?" 45 unchanging.

I am unsure whether the I Ching is telling me to stick around in this situation or whether it is reflecting back to me that I need to gather my energy towards myself and pull myself together, make a decision on what to put my energy into or even anything else. I've had other readings showing me there's a good friendship potential in this situation but I am having quite some trouble with that. I feel a bit lost, anyone has got any insight?

 

[rosada]

What will happen if I confess it’s hurting me too much and choose to walk away? 45uc

You’ve got two questions here
1. What will happen if I confess it’s hurting me too much?
45 might refer to the actual discussion and the possibility that an honest dialog might even lead to many different options even the possibility of deciding to stay.

2. What will happen if I choose to walk away?
45 advises “Harvest in having a direction to go.” I see this as the IC saying just deciding to leave is insufficient. You also need a vision of where you would go. Like advising you to be very practical. Ask yourself, “Am I better off with them or without them?”

Anyway, I think 45. The Gathering encourages you to have a wide all inclusive conversation with the idea that “stopping the hurting” is the true goal, the direction you’re wanting to go which could mean either staying or leaving depending on what the open hearted discussion reveals. Certainly if you allow such a discussion - rather than just saying, “This hurts too much, I’m out of here” - you’ll have greater clarity as to everyone’s true feelings and ultimate goals - which would make it much easier to leave if need be.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

What will happen if I confess it’s hurting me too much and choose to walk away? 45uc

You’ve got two questions here
1. What will happen if I confess it’s hurting me too much?
45 might refer to the actual discussion and the possibility that an honest dialog might even lead to many different options even the possibility of deciding to stay.

2. What will happen if I choose to walk away?
45 advises “Harvest in having a direction to go.” I see this as the IC saying just deciding to leave is insufficient. You also need a vision of where you would go. Like advising you to be very practical. Ask yourself, “Am I better off with them or without them?”

Anyway, I think 45. The Gathering encourages you to have a wide all inclusive conversation with the idea that “stopping the hurting” is the true goal, the direction you’re wanting to go which could mean either staying or leaving depending on what the open hearted discussion reveals. Certainly if you allow such a discussion - rather than just saying, “This hurts too much, I’m out of here” - you’ll have greater clarity as to everyone’s true feelings and ultimate goals - which would make it much easier to leave if need be.

Hi Rosada,

Thank you for your thoughts. I don't think there's much to discuss, I already had this discussion at the beginning of the situation and know her take on it. To be honest I'm also scared to confess how hard it is on me because she can be quite rigid especially when she feels like a burden. She knows it hurts me though but she also knows I am grateful for the connection as it is. Initially I didn't want to be friends because it hurt too much, but then I decided to invest into a friendship, which has been mutual and fulfilling however it strengthens my feelings which hurts.

The only direction I know I have to go is to lose my romantic feelings but it's impossible to control that, the only thing I can do is grieve and be realistic. I feel like the situation is a double edged sword.

I think if I'd be practical about this perhaps it would be easier to leave. But would it be equally fulfilling? I am not sure of that. I am unsure if this is good for me on the long term, not because the friendship isn't worthy, but because the friendship makes it harder to move on. I feel a bit stuck in my grief because the heart doesn't follow the reason my head does.

 

[Trojina]

By asking the I Ching "What will happen if I confess it's hurting me too much and choose to walk away?" 45 unchanging.

I am unsure whether the I Ching is telling me to stick around in this situation or whether it is reflecting back to me that I need to gather my energy towards myself and pull myself together, make a decision on what to put my energy into or even anything else. I've had other readings showing me there's a good friendship potential in this situation but I am having quite some trouble with that. I feel a bit lost, anyone has got any insight?

It isn't telling you either it's talking about gathering up resources, gathering yourself together against hardship, loss or some future necessity. 45uc in mundane terms might be stockpiling toilet rolls and other essentials when there's a pandemic going on. You are fortifying your base.

You decide what fortifying your base is for you and do that.

I may not have got all the right info but glancing at a previous thread isn't this someone who is doing that thing of 'I can't be with you (because of my past trauma blahblah) but I want to be friends and still have you as resource' type of scene?

That is exhausting and generally in hindsight I think one looks back at such usage of oneself with gasps of 'what was I thinking'

How much are you getting out of this and how much is it costing you ? Economics are a factor in relationships, we won't want to stay in relationships where we are always at a deficit, that would be draining. I had the impression by all this complication she is draining you. Also it is very selfish if she knows you have strong feelings for her where she doesn't but tries anyway to 'keep' you on an extended leash for her benefit.

However endings matter and it could be 45ing to continue going through this ending with her.

I'm sorry if I have the situation wrong though I haven't read the other thread properly.....

45 Gathering Together...which is gathering in, investing, making plans for safety for the future. Here that would be keeping yourself emotionally safe and not ill through emotional torture of the half baked 'I want you but I don't want you' and all that.

'Gathering together, creating success.
The king enters his temple
Harvest in seeing great people, creating success.
Harvest in constancy.
Using great sacrificial animals: good fortune.
Harvest in having a direction to go.'

This is all about investment, all kinds of investment whether financial, emotional or spiritual/energetic for strength, safety, long term goals.

If you are making big sacrifices of time and energy they need to be worth while for you to do so otherwise in ends in tears as you can see by all the emotions in the lines.

You are presumably investing a huge amount in her so ask yourself what is your long term payoff for that? If it is bankruptcy, emotional bankruptcy, with no promise of a good stable relationship then why keep investing?

Sometimes it is a worthwhile investment to end a relationship slowly because it can be less painful long term to end well than to end suddenly/badly but is this the case here.


The Image says


'Lake higher than the earth. Gathering together.
Noble one sets aside weapons and tools,
And warns against the unexpected.'

This is looking after yourself long term. So whether you walk away or not is to do with whose time and energy you feel you need to care for here. If it is your then withdraw so your resources can go elsewhere.

Where is this going ? If you have nothing to gain here at all don't keep investing and investing. It can be worth investing in endings to avoid bad feelings but if it goes on and on then...?

Here is the 45uc thread with others saying how they felt it

Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 45

For myself I find I have learned much from everyone about pairs in these threads. It's seemed to me that in particular with unchanging castings the other one of the pair is especially noticeable/visible/part of the picture. Sometimes we've struggled with how pairs slot into one another. With...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

 

[lightafterdarkness]

It isn't telling you either it's talking about gathering up resources, gathering yourself together against hardship, loss or some future necessity. 45uc in mundane terms might be stockpiling toilet rolls and other essentials when there's a pandemic going on. You are fortifying your base.

You decide what fortifying your base is for you and do that.

I may not have got all the right info but glancing at a previous thread isn't this someone who is doing that thing of 'I can't be with you (because of my past trauma blahblah) but I want to be friends and still have you as resource' type of scene?

That is exhausting and generally in hindsight I think one looks back at such usage of oneself with gasps of 'what was I thinking'

How much are you getting out of this and how much is it costing you ? Economics are a factor in relationships, we won't want to stay in relationships where we are always at a deficit, that would be draining. I had the impression by all this complication she is draining you. Also it is very selfish if she knows you have strong feelings for her where she doesn't but tries anyway to 'keep' you on an extended leash for her benefit.

However endings matter and it could be 45ing to continue going through this ending with her.

I'm sorry if I have the situation wrong though I haven't read the other thread properly.....

45 Gathering Together...which is gathering in, investing, making plans for safety for the future. Here that would be keeping yourself emotionally safe and not ill through emotional torture of the half baked 'I want you but I don't want you' and all that.

'Gathering together, creating success.
The king enters his temple
Harvest in seeing great people, creating success.
Harvest in constancy.
Using great sacrificial animals: good fortune.
Harvest in having a direction to go.'

This is all about investment, all kinds of investment whether financial, emotional or spiritual/energetic for strength, safety, long term goals.

If you are making big sacrifices of time and energy they need to be worth while for you to do so otherwise in ends in tears as you can see by all the emotions in the lines.

You are presumably investing a huge amount in her so ask yourself what is your long term payoff for that? If it is bankruptcy, emotional bankruptcy, with no promise of a good stable relationship then why keep investing?

Sometimes it is a worthwhile investment to end a relationship slowly because it can be less painful long term to end well than to end suddenly/badly but is this the case here.


The Image says


'Lake higher than the earth. Gathering together.
Noble one sets aside weapons and tools,
And warns against the unexpected.'

This is looking after yourself long term. So whether you walk away or not is to do with whose time and energy you feel you need to care for here. If it is your then withdraw so your resources can go elsewhere.

Where is this going ? If you have nothing to gain here at all don't keep investing and investing. It can be worth investing in endings to avoid bad feelings but if it goes on and on then...?

Here is the 45uc thread with others saying how they felt it

Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 45

For myself I find I have learned much from everyone about pairs in these threads. It's seemed to me that in particular with unchanging castings the other one of the pair is especially noticeable/visible/part of the picture. Sometimes we've struggled with how pairs slot into one another. With...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Hi Trojina, thank you for your insight!

I understand. That's something to think about, gathering and preparing. It depends on what thread, if it's a quite recent one it is about the same person. If it's before '24, it isn't. "what was I thinking" lord it be like that! I definitely feel that way about my threads before '24.

I read all 45 uc threads including that one on this website before posting this question. I tend to try and figure things out myself before asking people their insights here! I also checked out my I Ching book, but I stay a bit "lost"

Direct answer to interpretation:
I think the I Ching doesn't give me any advice perhaps. Reading what you said, it seems to just reflect back to me that I might not make any decisions before discussing. To be aware of investment and sacrifice. To be aware of the right people? To be consistent in that and to put energy into direction. It doesn't seem to tell me what direction I should take/what will happen. The image seems to tell me to prepare myself, perhaps by gathering my strength and resources (weapons and tools) because I can't control my surroundings, only my inner resources and strength? Precisely the problem is perhaps my lack of direction, because my inner strength and resources aren't fully aligned with the direction I have to take to be her friend. That's what makes it hurt.


Responses to the things you wrote:
I am getting quite a lot out of it. We had conversations that were quite enlightening about the shadows and patterns we had that prevented us from truly connecting and instead promoted disconnection. For us to have such vulnerable conversations about our behaviors promoted connection, vulnerability, trust and understanding and it's something that wasn't that present prior without conflict. Having this now felt bitter sweet and amplified my feelings because still, I won't get her back, the only thing that remains is growth, understanding and perhaps friendship. Which I can appreciate, but the loss and grief remains which is draining. That's why I'm torn, I know there's something valuable here but that doesn't stop it from hurting.

She invests into the friendship, writing me long letters, handknitted me gloves, gifted me. She still has strong feelings but everytime they come up for her she shuts them down. She doesn't seem to lack feelings for me but she doesn't see a future due to lack of compatibility and relationship raptures that couldn't be repaired. She said she doesn't ever see a relationship with me again so I'm not being lead on. It hurts her to talk to me at times too and she has to leave cause she gets choked up, so I'm not alone in this in a way. It doesn't feel like I'm being strung along for her benefit, it isn't easy on both of us.

I think I cannot predict what this investment will bring but if I didn't think there was any gain to it, I wouldn't put my effort into it. I feel bankrupt emotionally due to the grief which is highlighted now but I think I would also if I gave up on possibly cultivating a healthy friendship, there's never a promise in anything. I do take a few steps away every now and then and limit myself to come back to myself. I think it's more about grounding and fortifying myself, perhaps gathering myself together so I am able to navigate this better? I'm not sure.

I'm not avoiding hard feelings by making it end "slowly" because it is really hard being her friend and it's not like we act like we're together still. I am unsure if my feelings will fade eventually and that makes me insecure. I catch my heart not having given up and my thoughts sometimes running off to the past or fantasies, while I am 100% aware there's no reconciliation gonna happen and that puts me back through that cycle of grief. It's like a part of me is letting go and a part of me is still holding on putting me in this limbo. To be fair we only separated two months ago. I am not sure what taking care of myself looks like here, because whether I stop investing or not, both will hurt. It's a double edged sword. I try to shift focus back onto myself but it stays at the back of my mind quite a lot.

What do you think after I shared this, Trojina?

 

[Trojina]

45 in my experience can just be a clear 'get it together', pull things together. The question is is it talking about the relationship she says she can't have or is it you pulling yourself back together. I don't think it's a loose endish kind of answer, it asks you what your priority is, where are you going to invest, what is important. Also I think it can often refer to shared resources, shared lives, the things that connect people anyway regardless like houses and such. Often as a prediction or advice it can be just coming together again because that is where one is invested.

One thing is for sure and that is you are both very invested in each other anyway regardless of the content of conversation.

Precisely the problem is perhaps my lack of direction, because my inner strength and resources aren't fully aligned with the direction I have to take to be her friend. That's what makes it hurt.

How can you be her friend after breaking up only 2 months ago and still wanting her back. I don't see how friendship is humanly possible here. You can't at this point just share time together casually can you it's always intense full of feeling and that is investment. The problem is not that you lack direction but that you want her back and she doesn't want to come back but still seems to want you around. That will hurt. Friendship just doesn't figure here in my mind. You can't be saturated with feelings for her, be completely invested in her and then just be friends...it won't go that way will it.

She invests into the friendship, writing me long letters, handknitted me gloves, gifted me. She still has strong feelings but everytime they come up for her she shuts them down. She doesn't seem to lack feelings for me but she doesn't see a future due to lack of compatibility and relationship raptures that couldn't be repaired. She said she doesn't ever see a relationship with me again so I'm not being lead on. It hurts her to talk to me at times too and she has to leave cause she gets choked up, so I'm not alone in this in a way. It doesn't feel like I'm being strung along for her benefit, it isn't easy on both of us.

She doesn't ever see a relationship with you again but continues to have a relationship with you writing you long letters and knitting you gloves. I mean I don't know but as an outsider I'd think if you both get choked up when you talk and you talk a lot it seems you want to get back together. If she says you can't ever be back together then maybe you should let her live without you completely for a bit.

Anyway I don't know...I don't believe it's realistic to expect to be friends when there is so much more than that. If she says she sees no future I would think she really could do to experience the future without you in it otherwise it sounds like dragging it on tortuously.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

45 in my experience can just be a clear 'get it together', pull things together. The question is is it talking about the relationship she says she can't have or is it you pulling yourself back together. I don't think it's a loose endish kind of answer, it asks you what your priority is, where are you going to invest, what is important. Also I think it can often refer to shared resources, shared lives, the things that connect people anyway regardless like houses and such. Often as a prediction or advice it can be just coming together again because that is where one is invested.

One thing is for sure and that is you are both very invested in each other anyway regardless of the content of conversation.


How can you be her friend after breaking up only 2 months ago and still wanting her back. I don't see how friendship is humanly possible here. You can't at this point just share time together casually can you it's always intense full of feeling and that is investment. The problem is not that you lack direction but that you want her back and she doesn't want to come back but still seems to want you around. That will hurt. Friendship just doesn't figure here in my mind. You can't be saturated with feelings for her, be completely invested in her and then just be friends...it won't go that way will it.


She doesn't ever see a relationship with you again but continues to have a relationship with you writing you long letters and knitting you gloves. I mean I don't know but as an outsider I'd think if you both get choked up when you talk and you talk a lot it seems you want to get back together. If she says you can't ever be back together then maybe you should let her live without you completely for a bit.

Anyway I don't know...I don't believe it's realistic to expect to be friends when there is so much more than that. If she says she sees no future I would think she really could do to experience the future without you in it otherwise it sounds like dragging it on tortuously.

Hi Trojina, thanks again for your input.

Thanks for giving clarity on it's meaning. I want to invest into getting myself together. Wherever the connection goes and whatever it turns into, I want to let that organically develop however it does. I want to be less affected by everything but I understand I need time to grieve my loss. And yes, we are.

It's simply because if I go no contact, I don't feel like opening closed doors again. I know I need time to grieve but I don't need to contact her 24/7, we actually have some limits on the frequency because of this. I do not want her back because why would I, if being with me isn't what she wants? That doesn't make me stop having feelings for her or grieving her though. Especially after feeling like some things we missed are being created now. And even if I did want her back, we can't always have what we want, can we. I do think I can be her friend but indeed, not without hurting. I do genuinely want to be her friend though and do not have any other motives but I can't lie and say that something inside of me doesn't still think about it.

She doesn't want a romantic relationship indeed. However what she wants and what she needs are two different things. She said she does want to be with me and her feelings remain and it was incredibly hard and hurtful to walk away but she feels like she's incapable of making it work and it's conflicting yet I understand that. If love were enough, a lot of relationships wouldn't end. But love isn't enough and wanting something doesn't always mean you have the tools to make it work. She felt confused about it herself at first and was worried that it gave me hope cause she obviously still had feelings. It didn't cause I understand two opposite things can coexist. What she feels she wants and what she can do and what the right thing to do are, differ. And ultimately she wants to do the right thing for both herself and me and staying in a connection that doesn't 100% feel right anymore isn't fair to either, is it?

Maybe I will indeed take some distance away. But I'm not sure I want to come back after I start to move on. I'm scared if I move on, opening closed doors makes the feelings come back. Once I love someone like this the feelings can stay dormant for a long time and come back easily, even if I moved on. I hoped that being her friend would force me to move on and deal with it head on instead of making "progress" and then falling back at square one if I open up to friendship again. It happened before that way.

 

[rosada]

Ah! So you’ve already pretty much told her being friends is hurting too much so the real question is what if you decide to walk away. In that case I see 45 saying that even if you do decide to leave you two are still somehow part of the same group. Perhaps you have mutual friends or you’ll still be sharing the same town, restaurants etc so a need to be prepared for unexpected meetings and memories.

You might find it helpful to ask the I Ching what area of your life to focus now to draw you forward into the future.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

Ah! So you’ve already pretty much told her being friends is hurting too much so the real question is what if you decide to walk away. In that case I see 45 saying that even if you do decide to leave you two are still somehow part of the same group. Perhaps you have mutual friends or you’ll still be sharing the same town, restaurants etc so a need to be prepared for unexpected meetings and memories.

You might find it helpful to ask the I Ching what area of your life to focus now to draw you forward into the future.

I haven't told her it's hurting "too" much but prior to investing in a friendship and also during I did tell her it would hurt & I told her during it was hard on me at times, but so did she. We both struggled.

We live quite a bit away and don't share any friends so I don't see that happening. But indeed, the main focus was on just confessing it's too hard and walking away IF i were to do so. It was more like wanting to know if that would be the right thing to do and my intent was focused on that.

I actually am quite clear on what needs my focus in my life aside from this situation but I asked 'What do I need to focus on next in this connection"

Hexagram 31.5 > 62

Perhaps this is telling me about my subconscious? Or about only making small steps? Hmm..

 

[rosada]

Still looking at 45 Gathering and now seeing it as saying that as you acknowledge your feelings and do what you need to do to protect yourself you are…

Acting like a king claiming your body is a temple (and not required to tolerate hurt!)
[The king approaches his temple. Wilhelm]

[It furthers one to see the great man] Seeing the good in all this…because…

{This brings success} THIS BRINGS SUCCESS!

and of course…Perseverance furthers.

So you decree you’re not going to put yourself through this abuse any longer, acknowledge leaving really is for the best and even if you don’t feel good about this immediately stick with it and eventually you’ll see the benefit.

The oracle goes on to say “to bring great offerings creates good fortune.” Perhaps down the road you will meet someone who is going through a similar experience and you will be able to offer empathy because you’ve been through it too.

And finally, “It furthers one to undertake something.” Find a project or something to do that makes you feel better.
I get benefit from listening to music to raise my mood. When I’m really depressed I listen to Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. It goes from the darkest depths to the light-hearted heights and as you listen all thoughts of melancholy get shoved aside as you just sit in stunned admiration that anyone could even play that piece let alone compose it.

I think 31.5 “The influence shows itself in the back of the neck” reminds us we can choose what we turn our attention to. This line is advising you to intentionally choose not to turn your head, not to put any more attention on this relationship. “No remorse” - you wont regret it.
62. Attention to detail. Are there any loose ends to tie up? Anything of hers you need to return or throw out? Perhaps this line points towards actually having the conversation - or writing a note - informing her of your decision is the next thing you should focus on, the essential final detail.

Or perhaps there are just some loose ends in general you need to handle?