What would happen if I leave 17.3.4.5 > 36

[lightafterdarkness]

Hello everyone,

I asked the I Ching what would happen if I leave and I got 17.3.4.5 to 36, I'm interested in others their interpretation?

 

[lightafterdarkness]

Had another question.

I asked what would be the best choice to make (leave, stay and continue etc) for me emotionally?

53 uc

 

[Liselle]

Hello Lightofdarkness,

It might help people connect with your readings and reply if you were able to give a little more background information. Readings are vague and can have many possible angles, and background information can help with that. Not straighten it out completely, but help.

If you're worried about saying too much on a public website - I completely understand. You don't have to give identifiable details like city names, people's names, and so on. Make up pseudonyms or just say "X."

If it's hard to describe the issues without it being too identifiable, try disguising it. Maybe problems with one's sister (for example) could be turned into problems with a friend or co-worker or something.

In the meantime, have you found Hilary's YouTube channel? There are a couple videos about hexagram 53 that might be good to watch.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Without more information it may be hard to get help aa Liselle has mentioned. However with 17, it is worth asking what you are following...what impulse is at the root of wanting to leave?

53 is a very long gradual development.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

Hello Lightofdarkness,

It might help people connect with your readings and reply if you were able to give a little more background information. Readings are vague and can have many possible angles, and background information can help with that. Not straighten it out completely, but help.

If you're worried about saying too much on a public website - I completely understand. You don't have to give identifiable details like city names, people's names, and so on. Make up pseudonyms or just say "X."

If it's hard to describe the issues without it being too identifiable, try disguising it. Maybe problems with one's sister (for example) could be turned into problems with a friend or co-worker or something.

In the meantime, have you found Hilary's YouTube channel? There are a couple videos about hexagram 53 that might be good to watch.

Hi Liselle!!

I used to give some detailed background information as the nature of the connection is hard to understand. However I noticed not many people respond to my posts, so I figured perhaps it would be good to see if little to no information would leave more space for others to reply.

I'll try to dose it however I find it quite hard to explain the situation in a short summary.

Thank you for your tips and suggestions, I take your input and effort to heart!

 

[lightafterdarkness]

Without more information it may be hard to get help aa Liselle has mentioned. However with 17, it is worth asking what you are following...what impulse is at the root of wanting to leave?

53 is a very long gradual development.

I've had a almost six month relationship with someone, however we've both struggled with external and internal demons. The connection was strong and solid at first but we didn't know each other well enough.

The relationship we had with ourselves plus external stressors put too much weight onto the foundation we had built by then. The lines snapped and although the love was there, it became toxic real fast as we both wanted to be there and have something good but sometimes you kick the people closest to you the hardest because you get scared and vulnerable.

However as time passed we both learned and grew a lot, the connection feels karmic but also healing. We've worked through a lot of issues and although we are not together, we've decided to try being together in a non traditional way.

They desire freedom to explore and gain a sense of identity as they've been homebound for years. To them it's unfair to me to have a committed relationship, they want this but feel as they have this inner struggle where they feel unfit to a relationship right now while their heart is with me, they feel like they need different things than a relationship. I am open to trying this and seeing if it's for me as I've been interested in a concept like that before.

We met up as we both understood the split is needed and we both need to grow before a relationship is possible, however the connection and love is so strong we found ourselves pulled back. The communication is better now, there's more space for individuality and we've decided to keep our hearts for each other but to explore an open 'relationship'. We have rules, communicate needs and do's and don'ts and we do not hide each other however the pressure of having a relationship is heavy so we decided to take things day by day, to see where things move and to see what direction we feel pulled towards.

The reason why I asked this question is because I feel pulled into multiple directions. I am hurt by this agreement but it also frees me in a way. Partly I want this but partly I'm also grieving what we had before, so I feel pulled into two directions. I feel like I do not want to let myself down and sometimes I feel conflicted whether this is what I want and truly need right now. I feel terrified, but also excited. And so do they as they are actually quite posessive and it's not easy for them either. Which is why we decided we will keep checking on each other and on whether we still feel like we can fit the agreements we made or continue this.

As things developed more by now and became more solid, I received hex 32.2.6 to 56.

The question was what possibilities are there for this connection to move towards (the question was something like this)

I hope this gives a good sketch of the situation and I hope you both understand why it's hard for me to sum this up, as it's not the traditional type thing.

 

[Trojina]

Hello everyone,

I asked the I Ching what would happen if I leave and I got 17.3.4.5 to 36, I'm interested in others their interpretation?

It looks like a good idea to leave. You said you feel hurt, well you would it's a rejection dressed up as something else hence the 36 as relating. I see the 17 as following your own more mature way on this. Holding to your own standards.

I mean basically, reading between the lines he's doing the usual think of wanting to keep you there while avoiding commitment and also making it sound like it's a jolly clever thing he's doing with all kinds of good reasons. But if you don't want that why take it.

If you really do think it's a good idea and it is what you want that's another matter. To me it looks like a lack of commitment dressed up to look like something else.

As things developed more by now and became more solid, I received hex 32.2.6 to 56.

The question was what possibilities are there for this connection to move towards (the question was something like this)

Well it could go on like this but line 6 is forever thinking there's a new and better way. It doesn't settle, keeps on reinventing itself and so doesn't last. Perhaps if there were more constancy as in line 2 it could be better.

Though this situation feels unusual to you it's not it's a very common scenario judging by these forums. By and large when things get that complicated they just aren't worth it. 'Yes we're together but we're not together' doesn't work.

I admit there's a good deal of opinion thrown in with the readings but I actually feel bad for you as you are clearly sincere with him and trying your best but you still hurt and I think you hurt because you don't want this.

I could be wrong, you know best of course.

Oh going back to that initial 17 reading

The reason why I asked this question is because I feel pulled into multiple directions. I am hurt by this agreement but it also frees me in a way. Partly I want this but partly I'm also grieving what we had before, so I feel pulled into two directions. I feel like I do not want to let myself down and sometimes I feel conflicted whether this is what I want and truly need right now. I feel terrified, but also excited. And so do they as they are actually quite posessive and it's not easy for them either. Which is why we decided we will keep checking on each other and on whether we still feel like we can fit the agreements we made or continue this.

You talk about being pulled in two directions, ask about leaving and Yi says that is following the highest guidance because you are being injured by staying (36). All these agreements are pure 32.6, constant upheaval for no good reason and all the time you are pouring energy and emotion into this you aren't able to give what you have to give elsewhere. If you feel pulled in 2 directions go the direction of saying 'I don't want this it hurts'. That is my view and I think the 17 cast bears it out. Staying with these ever changing agreements is a total energy drain.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

It looks like a good idea to leave. Yo inu said you feel hurt, well you would it's a rejection dressed up as something else hence the 36 as relating. I see the 17 as following your own more mature way on this. Holding to your own standards.

I mean basically, reading between the lines he's doing the usual think of wanting to keep you there while avoiding commitment and also making it sound like it's a jolly clever thing he's doing with all kinds of good reasons. But if you don't want that why take it.

If you really do think it's a good idea and it is what you want that's another matter. To me it looks like a lack of commitment dressed up to look like something else.

Well it could go on like this but line 6 is forever thinking there's a new and better way. It doesn't settle, keeps on reinventing itself and so doesn't last. Perhaps if there were more constancy as in line 2 it could be better.

Though this situation feels unusual to you it's not it's a very common scenario judging by these forums. By and large when things get that complicated they just aren't worth it. 'Yes we're together but we're not together' doesn't work.

I admit there's a good deal of opinion thrown in with the readings but I actually feel bad for you as you are clearly sincere with him and trying your best but you still hurt and I think you hurt because you don't want this.

I could be wrong, you know best of course.

Oh going back to that initial 17 reading



You talk about being pulled in two directions, ask about leaving and Yi says that is following the highest guidance because you are being injured by staying (36). All these agreements are pure 32.6, constant upheaval for no good reason and all the time you are pouring energy and emotion into this you aren't able to give what you have to give elsewhere. If you feel pulled in 2 directions go the direction of saying 'I don't want this it hurts'. That is my view and I think the 17 cast bears it out. Staying with these ever changing agreements is a total energy drain.

Important to know is that I'm the one who proposed this dynamic. We met up as friends after the break up. We had moments where we connected and she cried because she felt like her love for me is growing but she needs different things now and she kinda broke down about it. As I've been open to the idea of being open before (although being mono is more comfortable and would be my first choice, a conventional relationship forever would suffocate me!) I proposed to her to try this and she actually needed some time before agreeing.

Honestly this crosses my mind and it's a fear for me too but she shows commitment in a lot of ways. She doesn't mind openly loving me on social media, or naming me on events, she wants to talk to me almost everyday and when she needs space she misses me, while emptying out my parental house or when I have problems she offers help to travel to my country (we're 3 hours apart) and listens for hours.

She takes hours to work through our needs and wants and she says that when things go well between us, she starts to doubt whether this freedom is what she truly wants right now lately as she feels pulled back in by things going better between us however she feels like it's unfair to jump back into a 'traditional relationship' even though part of her wants that and she's broken down about it (again!)

But the pressure of it makes her lose herself in a relationship (she starts ignoring her own needs and then eventually blows up which she has to work on) when she still feels like she has to explore herself and gain a sense of identity to find out what she needs and wants. She constantly felt intimidated in the relationship because I have lots of experience and know myself well and she does not. She felt like she wasn't enough and she couldn't accept that she wasn't able to give certain things so she would beat up herself in the relationship and push herself instead of setting boundaries.

It's tempting to see it like she just wants to eat the fruit elsewhere too and not commit to me, but I think things are more complicated than that. She definetly doesn't find it easy because I'll be free too. And that makes her terrified, cause she fears being replaced too. I think perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes she wants to be free and not commit to me, but also she does offer commitment and love in a lot of other ways. We're definetly together, just not in a traditional way right now and we take it day by day to work through our issues and let each other be free and see where it takes us.

She's honest though about not being able to be fully committed right now, she's very transparent about how she feels and what she can and cannot do.

32.2.6 to me feels like a sketch of our relationship instead of just showing possibilities of where it goes. I noticed IC does not respond to questions about possibilities but rather reflects back the state of the relationship or gives comfort. I get the idea the IC wants me to figure this out myself by giving comfort and reflecting back to me where I'm at. I've had hexagrams telling me there's a opportunity to meet and have union though. I guess it meant we could come to a common ground.
36 to me was the question of the possibilities of this connection.

We went from something permanent and committed to something that is more free, like the wanderer.(56) Also 32 to me seems to speak of inner stability, a permanence within yourself in relationship to perhaps others.

I'd say line 2 speaks of finding middle ways and not going for extremes, it looks to me like the middle way between receptivity and action? In order for regrets to disappear, one is to find balance and not complicate things? Maybe it's telling me whether it works out or not, I have to find balance within myself and have an attitude of "love and let go"?

Line 6 tells me that a lack of stability or constancy will wear me down. To me it sounds like it's telling me I have to find inner constancy and stability, or the whirlwind ever changing qualities of the relationship will wear me down and drain me. One of my issues, also in committed ones, is that a relationship can affect me too much. I'm very sensitive to my partners and the flows of the connection and part of the reason I feel called to try this, is to liberate myself from that and see if I can find more stability, more independence, more freedom and more trust by letting go more. It's contradicting, but in a way this dynamic forces me to do so or I will be hurt and unhappy like you said. What I want to find out is whether I can be content with this dynamic and if it can bring me growth if I'm able to let myself be changed by it, but for once I governe the change myself too. I see it as taking my power back by letting it go.

I feel multiple things about the relationship yes. I'm feeling conflicted bc of my fears of being used, replaced or my lover straying away too much. I want their heart to be mine and my heart to be theirs and that's mutual for both of us and that's exclusive. I want to see if we can grow towards each other through this, but it takes a transformation of perspective and a lot of letting go and that comes with grief, anxiety, insecurities and also excitement. I guess I want to try this to find out more about myself too and the only way to know for sure if I want this or not is to try. But of course, as it's the first time I'm exploring this it comes with a load of uncertainty and fears which make me want to run away which is also what led me to question whether I should leave or not before.

I'm wondering about your perspective on how I reflect to the hexagrams and knowing more about my standpoint right now! I'm definetly agreeing with you on that I should do what feels best for me and I guess I'm trying to figure that out. Thank you so much for your time, insight and perspective because it makes me reflect on myself and my feelings more too!

 

[Trojina]

Important to know is that I'm the one who proposed this dynamic.

I didn't get that impression from what you wrote earlier here

They desire freedom to explore and gain a sense of identity as they've been homebound for years. To them it's unfair to me to have a committed relationship, they want this but feel as they have this inner struggle where they feel unfit to a relationship right now while their heart is with me, they feel like they need different things than a relationship. I am open to trying this and seeing if it's for me as I've been interested in a concept like that before

The reason why I asked this question is because I feel pulled into multiple directions. I am hurt by this agreement but it also frees me in a way. Partly I want this but partly I'm also grieving what we had before, so I feel pulled into two directions. I feel like I do not want to let myself down and sometimes I feel conflicted whether this is what I want and truly need right now. I feel terrified, but also excited. And so do they as they are actually quite posessive and it's not easy for them either. Which is why we decided we will keep checking on each other and on whether we still feel like we can fit the agreements we made or continue this.

It's tempting to see it like she just wants to eat the fruit elsewhere too and not commit to me, but I think things are more complicated than that. She definetly doesn't find it easy because I'll be free too. And that makes her terrified, cause she fears being replaced too. I think perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes she wants to be free and not commit to me, but also she does offer commitment and love in a lot of other ways. We're definetly together, just not in a traditional way right now and we take it day by day to work through our issues and let each other be free and see where it takes us.

She's honest though about not being able to be fully committed right now, she's very transparent about how she feels and what she can and cannot do.

I don't know is it complicated, indecisive or a question of wanting everything at once/to relinquish nothing while not being committed ?...If it works for you it works for you but you posted because it isn't working for you or you aren't sure you're very happy with it. Your first question was about leaving so it's in your mind. To me it seems incredibly tiring but that's just me, you said you found it exciting...

Line 6 tells me that a lack of stability or constancy will wear me down. To me it sounds like it's telling me I have to find inner constancy and stability, or the whirlwind ever changing qualities of the relationship will wear me down and drain me. One of my issues, also in committed ones, is that a relationship can affect me too much. I'm very sensitive to my partners and the flows of the connection and part of the reason I feel called to try this, is to liberate myself from that and see if I can find more stability, more independence, more freedom and more trust by letting go more. It's contradicting, but in a way this dynamic forces me to do so or I will be hurt and unhappy like you said. What I want to find out is whether I can be content with this dynamic and if it can bring me growth if I'm able to let myself be changed by it, but for once I governe the change myself too. I see it as taking my power back by letting it go.

.....yes tiring

I'm wondering about your perspective on how I reflect to the hexagrams and knowing more about my standpoint right now! I'm definetly agreeing with you on that I should do what feels best for me and I guess I'm trying to figure that out. Thank you so much for your time, insight and perspective because it makes me reflect on myself and my feelings more too!

I don't think I do have a great deal of insight with this to be honest. The 17 answer struck me that it was a very good idea to leave because it frees you up to follow much more what is an ideal to you, the highest aspiration for relationship. When someone says they can't commit - oh they want to but they can't and it's very complicated there's never a happy ending really, but what do I know, I don't think I've got your stamina If a person is ever in a relationship where they are waiting for someone to get clear or make their mind's up about what kind of relationship they want that person needs to leave IMO.

It's worth you exploring what makes you want to leave, identifying what made you ask that first question. You see if I or someone says 'yes leave' it can trigger a 'no I don't want to' reaction, naturally, but it feels like you may not have fully explored what you find unsatisfactory about this arrangement. It feels like it all works on paper but it may not work on a basic heart level. Don't be afraid to fully plunge into the negatives, I get the sense, I could be wrong, that you're reasoning with yourself and accentuating the positives or giving yourself positive self talk but you also need to hear the voice that doesn't want this at all.

 

[lightafterdarkness]

I didn't get that impression from what you wrote earlier here








I don't know is it complicated, indecisive or a question of wanting everything at once/to relinquish nothing while not being committed ?...If it works for you it works for you but you posted because it isn't working for you or you aren't sure you're very happy with it. Your first question was about leaving so it's in your mind. To me it seems incredibly tiring but that's just me, you said you found it exciting...

.....yes tiring


I don't think I do have a great deal of insight with this to be honest. The 17 answer struck me that it was a very good idea to leave because it frees you up to follow much more what is an ideal to you, the highest aspiration for relationship. When someone says they can't commit - oh they want to but they can't and it's very complicated there's never a happy ending really, but what do I know, I don't think I've got your stamina If a person is ever in a relationship where they are waiting for someone to get clear or make their mind's up about what kind of relationship they want that person needs to leave IMO.

It's worth you exploring what makes you want to leave, identifying what made you ask that first question. You see if I or someone says 'yes leave' it can trigger a 'no I don't want to' reaction, naturally, but it feels like you may not have fully explored what you find unsatisfactory about this arrangement. It feels like it all works on paper but it may not work on a basic heart level. Don't be afraid to fully plunge into the negatives, I get the sense, I could be wrong, that you're reasoning with yourself and accentuating the positives or giving yourself positive self talk but you also need to hear the voice that doesn't want this at all.

What you said right there about it not working on a basic heart level did hit me, that's definetly something to think about. I feel like I have a contradiction within me, one part of my heart wants a committed stable relationship and the other part of my heart desires freedom, excitement, new experiences and unconventionality. These parts within me have always clashed, I want stability but sometimes the constancy of something conventional makes me feel trapped. This is conflict nr 1.

Indeed I get why you didn't get that impression, I proposed this dynamic but that does not mean I do not grieve what we had or feel doubtful as the break up is still fresh and I'm processing a lot at the same time.

The main thing that made me want to leave is fear of the love not being solid enough to have a open dynamic like this. Of being replaced, used or left.
The reasons of me feeling like this are both because of how she's left and treated me before (which didn't feel that solid but we're both to blame for that) and also because of past relationship experiences. I guess the main doubt here is whether I want to trust and put myself in a position to get hurt again. I'm feeling protective of my heart.

But after that the conversations I had with her changed my perspective and I started feeling stronger within myself. I started feeling like I could explore this and if it doesn't work out, then what did I lose? I only gained experience, I have nothing to lose except maybe feeling heartache again. But that would be there either way. But yes, it's tiring, terrifying yet exciting and opens up my mind. I think those can co-exist but I have to figure out whether it makes me feel better of worse on the long run.

Agreed, if I'd sit here waiting around for her to return to me for a committed thing I'd be fooling myself and it wouldn't be worth it. But I'm not waiting for her to make up her mind and realize that she wants to be with me because I accepted that isn't what she is able to do rn. That's also not my intention although I love her and would stop this if I feel like we aren't building anything, but she agrees on that and says she does want to build something over time. It's just that we focus on the here and now and re building a connection while living out our own wishes within the agreements I guess.. wherever it'll take us we'll see along the way.


I decided maybe it's time to ask the IC some practical advice so I asked what would be the best path for me to take regarding this connection.

I got 56.5>33 which tells me that perhaps I am meant to partake in this adventure. 56 seems to be a reoccurent theme.

Or it's telling me to reflect on where this journey would be taking me. If I want to stay, stay if I want to to go, go However line 5 tells me there's things I am not comfortable with but are necessary in order to maintain this connection. The hexagram seems to be positive when it comes to embracing the discomfort resulting in openness however the line changes to retreat but in this changing line the retreat is seen as something positive.

In order for me to be able to explore this journey, we are meant to be free to find what it is we both seek and in order to be comfortable doing so and create space for openness some distance/retreat is needed? I think it's telling me to explore this, but check in with what is true to my heart and whatever path I choose it will return me to myself?