Will it be most beneficial for us to move to the lake?

[Time123]

Answer 36.6 to 22My wife and I are considering selling our home and finding a house near water. I was perplexed by this answer. Can anyone help clarify this?

 

[diamanda]

Something/someone dark rises, too high. But then it falls back down to earth.
And the result is beauty and grace.
So yes it will be beneficial, it will bring you more down to earth, away from darkness, towards beauty.

 

[Time123]

Thank you for clarifying. Does the word darkness signify anything in particular in the I ching?

 

[moss elk]

um, this reading is very inauspicious for the idea.

Rising to prominence then falling to the earth. (it is a reference to the dark emperor in our book.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Zhou_of_Shang

 

[Time123]

Thank you for the comment. As a beginner, it is hard to know which interpretation is closer. Where does the inauspicious element apply? To the process? Final outcome? Satisfaction with the outcome? The process of selling and buying has not begun...

 

[moss elk]

Where does the inauspicious element apply?

Do you know the story of Humpty Dumpty?
(It's the falling part.)

 

[moss elk]

Is the house built on the side of a mountain?
Did someone just get a promotion?

 

[Time123]

No promotion. No Mountain. The house is about 250 feet from a lake. I guess it could flood some day.

 

[equinox]

How is your own gut feeling about this Yi result and your matter in general?
Is this real estate offer an opportunity that made you start thinking of moving to the lake or is moving to the lake a dream that you will put into reality anyhow someday and right now the opportunity arises?
The more background information you give, the better people here can help you.

 

[Time123]

Thanks for the question. We are beginning the process, putting our house on the market, etc. The house we want is sitting with no buyers. I am wondering what the darkness is... the dream of living on the lake is 1 possibility. Is their a way to know whether the darkness is internal or external? For example: disappointment afterbthe move or financial loss ?

 

[equinox]

This is the difficulty with the I-Ching -- it can be each, internal or external or even internal and external at the same time. For me it reads like you first had clarity, like, yes we move there, and than doubts started to arise -- or am I wrong?

 

[diamanda]

How is 36.6 >22 playing out for you so far?
I've been thinking about his line. It's actually quite a lot about a dark tyrant falling.
Just to cover that base: between you and your wife, is any of you a tyrant?
If yes, this move would change that fact.

 

[ernobe]

You have fire below and earth above in both hexagrams. At first the earth is yin, then it is yang. It indicates that in your moving the presence of water will invigorate the earth element, give it more of the yang element, as if the dry earth in a garden was being watered. It will be a happy move.

 

[moss elk]

ernobe,

What is the system called that you are using? The one that makes meaning that has nothing to do with the text?

I would be wary of it, because I understand the text and your system is saying something very different than the text.

 

[ernobe]

Moss Elk,

36, according to the text, means darkness, which I liken to dry, barren earth, while 22 has elegance accorded by the text, which I liken to a fruitful earth.

 

[moss elk]

Moss Elk,

36, according to the text, means darkness, which I liken to dry, barren earth, while 22 has elegance accorded by the text, which I liken to a fruitful earth.

ok, but how are you deriving the meaning that you do?

you wrote:

It will be a happy move.

The line text refers to a collosal downfall. How do you get to "happy move." ?

 

[ernobe]

The line text refers to a collosal downfall. How do you get to "happy move." ?

I was answering the OPs' question about a reading. You are asking about the meaning of the line. According to the Ten Wings commentary,

'He had at first ascended to (the top of) the sky:'—he might have enlightened the four quarters of the kingdom. 'His future shall be to go into the earth:'—he has failed to fulfil the model (of a ruler).

It does not indicate a "collosal downfall", just a failed attempt to accord with a model, which by the way may have provided clues as to how to get it right the next time.

 

[moss elk]

(it is) just a failed attempt to accord with a model,

You didn't answer my question.
Let's try another way.

Ok, so how do you get from "a failed attempt to accord with a model,"
to
"It will be a happy move." ?

I can't see the connection of those two very different sets of meaning, and you aren't 'showing your work'.

 

[ernobe]

I can't see the connection of those two very different sets of meaning, and you aren't 'showing your work'.

I'll see if I can show you my work first, then answer your question. The meaning accorded by the text to a yin line does not include meanings accorded to its yang counterpart, in order to make its yin meaning clear and unambiguous within the context of its hexagram. So when a line changes, it changes the meaning of the whole hexagram. Otherwise the I-Ching would be complete if we only had line meanings for hexagrams 1 and 2 and then made the line meanings of the other hexagrams by a combination of them.

Ok, so how do you get from "a failed attempt to accord with a model,"
to
"It will be a happy move." ?

I get to "It will be a happy move" by including the meaning of all the other lines of 36 along with the one which represents "a failed attempt to accord with a model". Since the lines are divided into two trigrams, it is with the meaning of these two that my work is chiefly involved. From my studies, it seems that the current understanding of the five elements as related to the trigrams is incomplete. I don't know if the complete system, as I understand it, is already "out there" or is part of a secret oral tradition, hence my unwillingness to give out any further information about it at present.

PS. Will go on my daily walk now so it will be a couple hours before my next reply.

 

[moss elk]

Thanks for trying to explain.

I guess what I am trying to get at is that the 'unidentified system' that you are using creates meanings that are very different from what the line texts actually mean.
I think it was created several hundred years after the I Ching.

or to put it another way:
It's not the I Ching
it is a system created around it, and only loosely related to it. It generates different answers than the I Ching does. Everyone should be aware of that.

 

[ernobe]

I didn't know that the I-Ching has answers for all possible divination results. Why don't you mention the one for the result that concerns us (36.6 -> 22) and show how my interpretation of the same differs from it? If the I-Ching had all the answers, nobody would need to be posting here asking for other peoples' interpretations. My interpretation of 36.6 -> 22, as given above in response to your question, accords with the meaning of the text. Why do you think it differs from it?

 

[moss elk]

I didn't know that the I-Ching has answers for all possible (moss elk edit: Questions) divination results.

It does. It's answers are the divination result.

Why don't you mention the one for the result that concerns us (36.6 -> 22) and show how my interpretation of the same differs from it?

I already did, read all the posts above this one.
I don't know how to make it more simple than by saying:

The I Ching answer 36.6,
"no light, only darkness. At first rises to the sky, then falls to the earth."
Is in no way equivalent to:
Ernobe, 'It will be a happy move.'
In fact, it is alarming to see something so far off the mark.

If the I-Ching had all the answers, nobody would need to be posting here asking for other peoples' interpretations.

This statement is untrue. People have different knowledge and insight levels. Some people know exactly what a line means because they have lived it/ have first hand experience of it. People often can understand another persons reading because they themselves are not in the situation, and therefore can be more objective (or be free from any mental blocks of someone who is emotionally involved with the situation)

My interpretation of 36.6 -> 22, as given above in response to your question, accords with the meaning of the text. Why do you think it differs from it?

Because it doesn't accord with the meaning of the I Ching text at all.
Maybe other users could explain this in a way I cannot.

 

[radiofreewill]

Hi Time123,

“Will it be most beneficial for us to move to the lake?”
36.6 to 22 ~ Don’t get your hopes up too high based on the outward appearances ~ you’ll be sorely disappointed.

Joey Yap’s “Plum Blossom Divination Reference” rates this line as “Inauspicious” and suggests that the damper of financial loss may take the shine out of the move?

Yao Text: “There is no light; only darkness. Although one may first ascend to the heavens, one shall end up plunging into the very depths or bowels of the earth.”

Commentary: “By its very nature, evil must, at the very moment it has overcome good, fall and destroy itself because it has consumed all of its own energy. If one possesses the power to enlighten others but instead chooses to injure them, then one is breaking the rules that binds to whom one governs. In this way, one prepares and lays the foundation for one’s own downfall. When the sun rises, all that is evil is revealed, starting from the top.”

Career and Wealth: “It is not very promising as one has a chance of suffering from financial losses.”

So, I see the Yi warning you not to get carried away (‘evil’) by the idea, and the images, of moving to the lake ~ because a costly reckoning with the reality of it could be hiding in the shadows ~ be cautious and conservative, for now.

How does that resonate with you?

I hope this helps!

 

[ernobe]

The I Ching answer 36.6,
"no light, only darkness. At first rises to the sky, then falls to the earth."

This is a moving line. My comment on it is not an interpretation of the meaning of 36.6, it interprets the change of 36 to 22, based on the fact that it is a moving line. This is what the OP was asking about. Why are you changing the subject, and accusing me of something that I am not doing?

 

[moss elk]

Here is the subject matter:

A querent asked if it would be good buy and move to the lake house.
The I Ching answer was 36.6 (22)
* * * * *
end of subject matter.

Then you advised the querent that it was a good idea to move. (in contradiction to what the Yi said)
I quote:

It will be a happy move.

Are you now denying that you said what you said?

And then you said this:

My comment on it is not an interpretation of the meaning of 36.6

Then, if I may ask, what is it based on?
and why are you posting it on an I Ching forum?

 

[ernobe]

Here is the subject matter:

A querent asked if it would be good buy and move to the lake house.
The I Ching answer was 36.6 (22)
* * * * *
end of subject matter.

Then you advised the querent that it was a good idea to move. (in contradiction to what the Yi said)
....
Then, if I may ask, what is it based on?
and why are you posting it on an I Ching forum?

It is based on the fact that 36 changes to 22. The OP was not asking about the meaning of 36.6, but about the change of 36 to 22, in order to help him decide whether his move was appropriate. It is why he posted the question, and I answered it.

PS. Going on my daily walk now.

 

[moss elk]

The querent asked about 36.6,
which is inseperable from 36.6 (22)

No, the querent never asked about the transformation and relationship, they simply asked how 36.6 (22) applied to their situation. (auspicious or not).
Now you are making stuff up.

This is getting very strange.

 

[hilary]

It is based on the fact that 36 changes to 22. The OP was not asking about the meaning of 36.6, but about the change of 36 to 22, in order to help him decide whether his move was appropriate. It is why he posted the question, and I answered it.

PS. Going on my daily walk now.

Daily walks are a wonderful idea - I should follow your example.

The I Ching describes the meaning of the change from 36 to 22 with the text of 36, line 6:

'Not bright, dark.
At first rises up to heaven,
Later enters into the earth.'

So when someone asks the I Ching a question and receives 36 changing to 22, that text's at the centre of their answer. (Incidentally, it doesn't actually mention tyrants or disasters.)

There are, of course, methods of divination with hexagrams, old and new, that don't use the text. Ernobe, since you are using one of them, please put a note in your signature to that effect to avoid confusion. Ideally, link to an explanation of the method you use - and if the method is uniquely your own, you're very welcome to start a thread in Exploring Divination to describe it, and link there.

Thank you!

 

[rosada]

When I read hexagram 36.6 - 22 in my head I heard the Beatles lyric, "I do believe it's getting better (It couldn't get much worse)" I think that describes the feeling of 36.6 as in when things are so bad they can't get any worse then, well, we have to 22. - Imagine - they'll get better. So maybe this explains how 36.6 can mean both trouble and improvement at the same time.
So in response to the question, "Will it be most beneficial for us to move to the lake?" I see this answer as saying if your current circumstances are really awful or if your other options aren't great either than starting over at the lake might be the best of bad choices. But with 22 you always have to be aware you maybe lost in a pipe dream and there is a need for practical considerations. How much work would be required to bring this vision into reality? When I get 22 I hear "Will you still love me tomorrow?"

 

[ernobe]

hilary,

I've been debating just this point, whether I should go public with the system. Maybe I should ask the Yi about it, then post the reading here. It's unclear to me though what the "confusion" is that you are referring to. Should I prefix any mention of the five elements, such as wood, metal, earth, fire and water, with something like "this is according to the five elements theory", or make that a permanent feature of my signature?