Yi and time

[Marinaflsenda]

Dear All,
When I ask a question to the book, in what time terms does it answer?

I mean: I usually ask about issues that concern me in a short or medium term, maybe two, three, six months. Issues such as renting a house, getting a job, a relationship, an illness... Issues that concern me here and now.
I have no use for Yi to say. "Yes, you will get X job", and that happens in 10 years' time.

Should I then include a time frame in my question? Like, "Will I get X job in the next three months?"
Or does the book already know in what temporal terms my desire works?

Thank you very much.

 

[breakmov]

There was a time when I also questioned if there would be a specific moment for reading to fulfill its purpose of conveying understanding to the person who asked.
But after reflecting more, it didn't make sense to me to impose a deadline for me to understand something about the reading.
It seems to me that there is an understanding encapsulated in the reading that is connected to the reading itself and the circumstances that led the person to ask the question...
... and this understanding never expires, it is a value in itself.

breakmov

 

[surnevs]

Bradford Hatcher on the subject in this thread. (Choose Open in a new window, by right-clicking the mouse, for each link)
I participated in the thread and later recognized that he got a point...
(Though this discussion, never-ending, started with theories mostly known from the Song dynasty philosophers like Shao Yung goes on - and my add here would be that either the I Ching encompasses it all or not... which was also, back then my viewpoint. Probably why I overlooked Bradford's wise comment)

 

[moss elk]

Should I then include a time frame in my question? Like, "Will I get X job in the next three months?"

Absolutely yes = the time frame should be included. Even a daily reading has a time frame about (that day.)

 

[hilary]

If the time frame is important to me I would include it in the question - 'How will this situation develop over the next 6 months?' But if you know what you mean (eg 'Will I get this job (that I am currently applying for)?') then I don't think the answer is likely to play games with you ('Oh yes! (In a decade, hahaha!)').

What I think Brad was saying is that most readings talk about time qualitatively:
'When will this happen?'
'When this is true / when you've done this / when you've become this...'
I find those readings a lot more helpful.

 

[Marinaflsenda]

Thank you, all. Really helpful.

 

[shiny]

For a temporal answer I have successfully developed this method: having obtained the hexagram relating to the question and its change, I consider in which of the two hexagrams the answer consistent with my question is contained (if it is already current in the hexagram obtained, if in becoming in its change). Starting from this hexagram considered, I will read the corresponding date in the attached table taken from Diana Ffarrington Hook's book "The I Ching and You" (1973), then I add to this date the number of days obtained by adding the relative number for each trigram that constituting the hexagram - according to the key of the First Heaven or Primary Sequence. If the situation develops in the mutation I also add the numbers of the trigrams found in the mutated hexagram up to the last mutant line. - that is, if the mutant line is the first I stop at the first trigram. Keep a rubric and do field tests. (According to Chung Wu in "Essential I-Ching", page 91, hexagrams 20-30 and 45-49 could be reversed).

 

[surnevs]

For a temporal answer I have successfully developed this method: having obtained the hexagram relating to the question and its change, I consider in which of the two hexagrams the answer consistent with my question is contained (if it is already current in the hexagram obtained, if in becoming in its change). Starting from this hexagram considered, I will read the corresponding date in the attached table taken from Diana Ffarrington Hook's book "The I Ching and You" (1973), then I add to this date the number of days obtained by adding the relative number for each trigram that constituting the hexagram - according to the key of the First Heaven or Primary Sequence. If the situation develops in the mutation I also add the numbers of the trigrams found in the mutated hexagram up to the last mutant line. - that is, if the mutant line is the first I stop at the first trigram. Keep a rubric and do field tests. (According to Chung Wu in "Essential I-Ching", page 91, hexagrams 20-30 and 45-49 could be reversed).

I can see that this table is almost the same as found in John Blofelds book * Almost because Blofeld got hex. 51 and 52 swapped around:

​

What frustrates me with Blofeld's is that I haven't found anywhere in his book a hint as from where he got it. Does Hook mention her source?

*) John Blofeld, The Book of Change, London 1968, pg. 225

​

 

[shiny]

I can see that this table is almost the same as found in John Blofelds book * Almost because Blofeld got hex. 51 and 52 swapped around:

View attachment 5915
​

What frustrates me with Blofeld's is that I haven't found anywhere in his book a hint as from where he got it. Does Hook mention her source?

*) John Blofeld, The Book of Change, London 1968, pg. 225

​

Chung Wu, Essential I Ching, pg. 91 shows a table similar to this taken from Apocryphal treatise on Yi - reference tables by anonymous author of the 1st century. B.C.

 

[shiny]

Chung Wu, Essential I Ching, pg. 91 shows a table similar to this taken from Apocryphal treatise on Yi - reference tables by anonymous author of the 1st century. B.C.

Hook reveals that she was Chen Lu's disciple

 

[shiny]

I can see that this table is almost the same as found in John Blofelds book * Almost because Blofeld got hex. 51 and 52 swapped around:

View attachment 5915
​

What frustrates me with Blofeld's is that I haven't found anywhere in his book a hint as from where he got it. Does Hook mention her source?

*) John Blofeld, The Book of Change, London 1968, pg. 225

​

Hook's table seems coherent to me. Hexagram 51 refers to spring, double Chen trigram in the Secondary Sequence, and while hexagram 52, double Kenn trigram, to autumn. This hexagram "It is the mysterious place where all things have a beginning and an end, where death and birth merge" also represents the seeds that are the mediators between the end and the beginning in plants, according to Wilhem's indications.

 

[surnevs]

Hook reveals that she was Chen Lu's disciple

Thank you.
When I wrote that John Blofeld hasn't a source it's not quite true. He mentions Fu Hsi's circular arrangement of the 64 hexagrams (As I see it, this is Shao Yungs arrangement, but that will be my problem to prove that). But when you compare this with his table it doesn't fit!
Concerning the discussion of such arrangements see the second link on #3

 

[shiny]

Thank you.
When I wrote that John Blofeld hasn't a source it's not quite true. He mentions Fu Hsi's circular arrangement of the 64 hexagrams (As I see it, this is Shao Yungs arrangement, but that will be my problem to prove that). But when you compare this with his table it doesn't fit!
Concerning the discussion of such arrangements see the second link on #3

About Shao Yung's hexagram arrangement you can read about some of its features in my blog: https://sekhem125.blogspot.com/

 

[surnevs]

About Shao Yung's hexagram arrangement you can read about some of its features in my blog: https://sekhem125.blogspot.com/

Fascinating! I hope I'll be able to return to your book basically (maybe) because I was engaged (in a passionate manner though) in Egyptology when I was young. This passion has never left me but by now I'm into some books that I feel I must be over with before continuing - I think you know such situations.

 

[blewbubbles]

#Marinaflsenda
I question the system as follows.
It is said that the yijing's purpose is to clarify doubts. I've been playing with Yarrow Stalks (or toothpicks, matches, and other sticks picked from trees) for neerly thirty years, and I'm wondering now, if I've gotten any better at it. As in, does one's ability to draw correct answers increase over time. Or, otherwise, does an apprentice have the potential to make correct and accurate "predictions" by obtaining a hexagram?

The answer is, that it is purely circumstantial. Therefore, I think that the light which is shed on your problem by the text of the hexagram you've obtained, is circumstantial to the doubts you are experiencing at that moment in time, and if you are thinking at that moment of the possible state of affairs in the far off future, then you will be able to find a reference in your hexagram to that particulate timeframe you are considering. Even if you only keep it open as an option in the back of your mind, and find some good short term advice, you may still want to remember that image or line text when you finally arrive at the distant port.