Yi on Fate and Destiny

[my_key]

This started with some comments made by Meng in Tiger's Shared Reading Thread on H44.5 about predetermination. This set the ball rolling with regards to musing about fate and destiny.
I've been knawing at the bone since and finally thought I'd ask the Yi it's views on both and how it interacts with them - cos sure as hell both get my mind a racing normally into ever decreasing circles.
These questions were posed intended as general queries and not specifically as my own personal fate or destiny

Q: What is fate? A: 36:2.4.5>43

Fate is a concealment of illumination which although a serious injury is not deadly. Staying strong you will eventually see the truth of what is intended for you and you can choose to take appropriate actions that will allow you to leave the scene of the disaster before the storm breaks. This can be achieved by pretending to play along with fatet but disguising the integrity that you hold, the inner abundance that truely nurtures yourself allowing you to burst forth by parting with the past.

Q: What is destiny? A: 39:3>8

Destiny is reversing ones personality to renovate ones power and virtue. Standing in the dangers and being able to leave them without being injured by the negative energy of acquired conditioning. You do this by not chasing it by staying calm in the mind and allowing the action of destiny to manifest bringing you your true heartfelt connections.

So maybe it's like fate and destiny are at two ends of the spectrum Fate is something pulling you back if you are not careful and Destiny is something you have the potential step into by freewill actions based on inner promptings.

Q: How does the Yi Jing interact with Fate? A: 10 - Treading

It helps you to make and find your way in the world, supporting you carefully one step at a time. It potentially brings you in contact with the things that you really need connection with.

Q: How does the Yi Jing interact with Destiny? A: 61 - Inner Truth

It establishes truthfulness and an inner openness that potentially provides nourishment for you and those around you.

I'm sure there are other interpretations and it was interesting that both the interaction questions produced unchanging hexagrams which for me sort of says it's a done deal.

Not sure if this would be better in Shared Readings but yer tiz anyway.
What thoughts and observations? Comments appreciated particularly on the interaction aspect.

Mike

 

[Trojina]

Just wondering what you see as the difference between fate and destiny ? I thought they were the same thing ?

 

[Trojina]

So maybe it's like fate and destiny are at two ends of the spectrum Fate is something pulling you back if you are not careful and Destiny is something you have the potential step into by freewill actions based on inner promptings.


Mike

asking because i don't really understand what you mean here ? Fate pulls you back and Destiny is future orientated ? I honestly always thought they were two words for the same thing, but you see fate and destiny as quite different things ?

 

[elvis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny

http://www.orderofthewhitelion.com/Karma@/Fate.destiny.html

In the EIC we can identify the PURPOSE of each hexagram where such is tied to the sense of completion (63-ness). This purpose operates at the CLASS level when compared to the instance of an individual or at the group, collective, level if you prefer. (e..g all sperm have one purpose, but individual sperm can be 'led astray' from such)

Since the language nature of the EIC is applicable to all scales of meaning so the elicitation of a hexagram representing a situation also comes with such details as the hexagram's, and so situation's, completion and so purpose.

From the position of consciousness and so the 'free agent' on the block, given a situation's hexagram and from that its purpose, one can 'nip a situation in the bud' by introducing the purpose element prematurely. ( an example is with weather conditions where plants can blossom or wilt prematurely if unusual weather conditions occur).

The other side of the coin is in identifying the purpose of the situation and proactively 'guiding' development towards the completion.

As conscious individuals we operate freely WITHIN the bounds of determinism/laws. Understanding the patterns gives us control of where we choose to place ourselves. However, at the same time we are open to the unconscious push of context upon our species instincts/habits; consciousness can override such but not all of the time and so we can experience moments of being emotionally overwhelmed.

it is not easy to memorise the full language elements of the I Ching but it is easy to learn how to derive the information when needed - over time that experience can elicit unconscious learning and so a developing wisdom/intuition.

 

[rosada]

Curious how these examples seem to describe Fate and Destiny as a similar situation handled from two different perspectives. A man is stuck in a situation he cannot influence. When he sees his position as his "Fate" he can only conceal his true sentiments and endure, 36.5. When it's "Destiny" he is does not see himself as stuck, but rather that he is choosing to stay as his presence serves a higher purpose, 39.3.

-Rosada

 

[bradford]

I personally put fate, destiny and higher purpose all on the same spectrum, and in that order from helplessness to self-direction, and all valid translations of the Chinese word Ming, depending on context and on the person. But what they all have in common, even for the most self-directed, is that your Ming is a whole lot bigger than you are.
I think the book Dune had a lot to say about Ming, as Paul followed his shining path.

 

[my_key]

Just wondering what you see as the difference between fate and destiny ? I thought they were the same thing ?

Hi Trojan
I asked the questions because I was trying to get my head around what the differences may be............
Chris and Bradford have put some good thoughts in place already about the difference that can be seen between fate and destiny. I'd seen in simple terms fate is something like an unfavourable destiny ( like our doom) something that happened to us, whereas destiny was something that we stepped into through our own endeavours and choices, something that we were proactive in determining. That may be how I slanted the readings, making them what I thought beforehand.
I think Chris is saying similar to this here

As conscious individuals we operate freely WITHIN the bounds of determinism/laws. Understanding the patterns gives us control of where we choose to place ourselves. However, at the same time we are open to the unconscious push of context upon our species instincts/habits; consciousness can override such but not all of the time and so we can experience moments of being emotionally overwhelmed.

Fate and destiny, I think are on a spectrum as Bradford said.

I personally put fate, destiny and higher purpose all on the same spectrum, and in that order from helplessness to self-direction, and all valid translations of the Chinese word Ming, depending on context and on the person. But what they all have in common, even for the most self-directed, is that your Ming is a whole lot bigger than you are.

Hi Bradford
Unfortunately I've never read the Dune Trilogy so the reference does not shine too much light for me.
Does Ming have a similar concept to wyrd? i.e it is the unfolding of our personal destiny and then more besides.....

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]...it is an all-encompassing view which connects us to all things, thoughts, emotions, events in the cosmos as if through the threads of an enormous, invisible but dynamic web. Today, scientists know intellectually that all things are interconnected. But the power of Wyrd is to realise this in our inner being, and to know how to use it to manifest our personal destiny. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]I liked this quote from one of the links Chris gave:
[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]The responsibility for finding our Destiny is ours alone. It can never be given to us by anyone else for it doesn't belong to them, it only belongs to us.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]Destiny is something we choose to go after.... Fate is something that happens to us, and seemingly takes away our choices, but in fact actually leads us back towards the choice of Destiny we already made before we were born.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Reading this.....Is this what the Yi does as it interacts with both or jumps in and out at the various points on the spectrum from helplessness to self direction...and all points beyond?


Mike

 

[bradford]

Does Ming have a similar concept to wyrd? i.e it is the unfolding of our personal destiny and then more besides.....

I hadn't connected the two before, but I like, especially the reciprocity between past and future under "Concept" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd

Ming also has the connotation of Mandate (as in Mandate of Heaven) and of Decree, especially of a sovereign, but in the context of destiny, etc., this connotation could be taken wrongly as the edict of a divinity with a detailed plan for our lives, which is a Western idea.

 

[my_key]

I hadn't connected the two before, but I like, especially the reciprocity between past and future under "Concept" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd

There is also the idea that at another level wyrd is constant change.....
http://www.wayofwyrd.com/resource_pc.html#wyrd

Ming also has the connotation of Mandate (as in Mandate of Heaven) and of Decree

I think I'm too westernised
Is this like having a hand of cards dealt with the Ace of trumps....you know you have to play it at some point but you can choose when?

Mike

 

[rosada]

I asked the I Ching "What is my Destiny?" and then "What is my Fate?" and got some interesting answers.
I think your destiny is some where you are headed that is unavoidable. Like Man is destined to die.
Fate is how you get to your destiny.
-r

 

[meng]

I think your destiny is some where you are headed that is unavoidable. Like Man is destined to die.
Fate is how you get to your destiny.
-r

That's pretty cool. :bows:

 

[my_key]

I asked the I Ching "What is my Destiny?" and then "What is my Fate?" and got some interesting answers.
I think your destiny is some where you are headed that is unavoidable. Like Man is destined to die.
Fate is how you get to your destiny.
-r

Something like destiny is the destination (that kind of fits) and fate is the route you take, the journey. Yes. Nice and simple.

Going back to the original questions Yi interacts with the journey through Treading and interacts with the destination through Inner Truth. That seems to make a nice fit as well.

Mike

 

[knotxx]

Going back to the original questions Yi interacts with the journey through Treading and interacts with the destination through Inner Truth. That seems to make a nice fit as well.

Also I like the idea that the yi walks lightly beside the great and dangerous power that is fate, and stands as a loving equal facing destiny. Not sure what that means but I just like the image.