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Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings - Hexagram 25

Trojina

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When I ask predictive questions such as "will X contact me ?" and so on I have found 25uc pretty much a not known, a 'maybe'...I have to see what happens. I see 25 uc with predictive questions at least sometimes, a kind of not answering because all within the realm of the question is happening from a disentangled point or stance. There is all scope for spontaneity within the nature of those concerned...or those factors concerned. Most often I find 25uc a very Open answer.

I enjoyed this recent thread where Ylexi got got 25uc http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?17120-What-kind-of-job-is-25

For this pair Lise said

Profit of the time

25 - flow along with the time
26 -harvest what the time offers.


Hilary says of this pair

'Without Entanglement means calamity;Great Taming means the right time'



Without Entanglement marks a time when bad things can happen through no fault of your own. It is a time to disengage from the misfortune - not yet the right moment to assume ownership of everything in your domain and take action.

If my question is around proposed action or advice for a problem 25 uc generally makes me ask 'how much of this is my business ?' or 'how much can I affect the outcome here anyway'

Another way to sum 25uc for less or more fortunate times is for me the saying " "**** happens". Good ****, bad ****, all kinds of ****, just happens and 25uc shows it's not all in my domain of care.


So what does Wing say about 25 uc :


"Spontaneous creativity in the upper trigram, CH'IEN is aroused and amplified by strong movement below in the trigram CHEN. When there are no changing lines, the element of the unexpected is amplified. You may rest assured that whatever happens will not be at all what you expected. An accommodating attitude will see you through without error."


Anyone have any 25uc experiences to share ?
 

meng

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I was too in the moment to remember. Without a motive or agenda, it had no importance to make it noticed.

I like 'flowing along with the time.'

The consequences of guile or malcontent are strongly emphasized in the judgment. So while our natural response to receiving 25 may be one of gladness, it's also a stern warning.
 

rosada

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Whatever became of our thread with putting music with each hexagram? I think "Where have all the flowers gone?" with it's line "When will they ever learn?" would be suitable for Hexagram 25.
 

chingching

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Lol, well the only reading within the last year i have for 25 uc was an answer to a question asked in a soul searching moment, ' what is my best quality '. Ahhhh
 

Liselle

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I can't be absolutely sure, but I think the following might be an example of "the unexpected" or "spontaneous" aspect of hex 25:

Several years ago, I was attending an event during which, we were told ahead of time, a raffle would be held. The prize was some middling-priced gadget which I didn't own and which appealed to me, an iPod maybe, or a digital camera. I am not the sort of lucky person who wins things all the time, so I usually scoff at raffles, but I asked Yi, "So. What chance I'd actually WIN this raffle if I enter it?" I received 25 unchanging, and didn't know what to make of it. Was it telling me to remain disentangled, either in the sense of don't buy raffle tickets, or don't let myself be all caught up in winning something? Was it telling me to buy 25 tickets and then I'd win (hahaha)?

At the event, I went to the table to buy a ticket. I wasn't thinking about the reading. The tickets were a whopping dollar or so apiece, the proceeds would be put to good use, and it's just sort of what you do, if you're attending the event in the first place. Not a big deal. (I had done the reading pretty much out of curiosity and a crabby mood.)

So I asked the woman for a ticket. She handed me two tickets. I said, no no, I just wanted one ticket. She separated the two tickets and gave one of them to me. All of this was a knee-jerk reaction on my part - I was one person, and I would buy one ticket, and that's just the way it ought to be in an orderly world, right? I gave it no thought whatsoever.

Well, guess who won the raffle? The person behind me. Not that I'd been paying much attention to her either, but I'm pretty sure I recognized her.
 

Trojina

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"So. What chance I'd actually WIN this raffle if I enter it?" I received 25 unchanging, and didn't know what to make of it. Was it telling me to remain disentangled, either in the sense of don't buy raffle tickets, or don't let myself be all caught up in winning something? Was it telling me to buy 25 tickets and then I'd win (hahaha)?

All it was telling you IMO was that it was down to chance, you may win, you may not win. That pretty much is how I've experienced 25uc when asking for predictions. Who knows....it's not known yet. What better answer for something like a raffle. It's the luck of the draw. Not all that happens is down to what we did or didn't do and not all is known and predestined in advance. In a way you weren't being answered beyond what you already knew which is that you may or may not win. No design, no plan...it is as it is..a raffle is a game of chance
 

Liselle

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Well, yes, of course it's a game of chance, but I really think the I Ching was telling me that I actually would win if I allowed an unexpected, spontaneous event (which is similar to chance, in a way) to help me. The woman selling tickets handed me the winning ticket. I rejected it because I was not open to the event and hadn't kept my reading in mind. When they drew the winning number and the woman went up to claim the prize, I recognized her as the person who was behind me in line. Then I remembered my reading.
 

Liselle

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Ah, I see.

Okay, but now I'm confused :rofl:. What did I explain badly in the first place, that was more clear the second time?

(BTW, did we used to have an :lol: emoticon, that was one step down from : rofl :? The same chuckle-face as :rofl:, but sort of chuckling in place and not rolling around? If so I would love to have that one back. I feel like it's a gaping hole in our otherwise splendid set of emoticons :D.)
 
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Trojina when you say "**** happens, good ****, bad ****." I thought immediately of Forest Gump. And Lisa's story really goes with it. I too have experienced both good and bad with 25. And I do feel its meaning is all of the above, you have all said. Flowing with this spontaneous moment. Being open to right here and right now. We don't know what might happen, so lets hope for the best and be prepared for the worst. Feeling a sense of freedom and being optimistic. Like a feather on the wind open to chance.
 

Liselle

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Okay, but now I'm confused :rofl:. What did I explain badly in the first place, that was more clear the second time?

The person behind me. Not that I'd been paying much attention to her either, but I'm pretty sure I recognized her.

Okay, it's the next morning and I have a fresh set of eyes...the person behind me where? Recognized her from where? :rolleyes: Sorry. I get it now :duh:
 

Trojina

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Okay, but now I'm confused :rofl:. What did I explain badly in the first place, that was more clear the second time?

(BTW, did we used to have an :lol: emoticon, that was one step down from : rofl :? The same chuckle-face as :rofl:, but sort of chuckling in place and not rolling around? If so I would love to have that one back. I feel like it's a gaping hole in our otherwise splendid set of emoticons :D.)

I thought you were asking a question here

but I asked Yi, "So. What chance I'd actually WIN this raffle if I enter it?" I received 25 unchanging, and didn't know what to make of it. Was it telling me to remain disentangled, either in the sense of don't buy raffle tickets, or don't let myself be all caught up in winning something? Was it telling me to buy 25 tickets and then I'd win (hahaha)?

that's why I told you what I thought...I thought you were asking us. However you weren't. I'd never have been able to work out from what you wrote earlier that you actually thought Yi was telling you how to win. That thought wouldn't even occur to me for 25uc. It is interesting to see what others do with answers, that's another reason I like to accumulate experiences on these threads. If I had had 25uc at that moment I would have thought...it is as it is...chance is chance. You saw it from a different angle that if you had been more 'innocent' less conscious, you would have bought 2 tickets. So my confusion wasn't much about the person behind you but what you thought 25uc meant here. I thought you were asking us but you were telling us.

Interesting. Well I'm glad we understand one another now (I wonder how long it will last. I think we are karmically destined for misunderstood nuances of speech)



(BTW, did we used to have an :lol: emoticon, that was one step down from : rofl :? The same chuckle-face as , but sort of chuckling in place and not rolling around? If so I would love to have that one back. I feel like it's a gaping hole in our otherwise splendid set of emoticons .)

Yes, I mean there should be a middle ground between smiling and rolling about on the floor laughing like a maniac....we need an emoticon whose shoulders gently heave with mirth. I have always found the provision of emoticons here somewhat random....I mean what kind of forum owner would provide this :freak: and what does this really mean :p ? Is it an insult or a good natured dig in the ribs ??
 

Liselle

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I thought you were asking a question here

but I asked Yi, "So. What chance I'd actually WIN this raffle if I enter it?" I received 25 unchanging, and didn't know what to make of it. Was it telling me to remain disentangled, either in the sense of don't buy raffle tickets, or don't let myself be all caught up in winning something? Was it telling me to buy 25 tickets and then I'd win (hahaha)?
that's why I told you what I thought...I thought you were asking us.
Ohhh. No, those were just my guesses when I got the reading, when I was trying to figure out what it was telling me. I ended up shrugging and giving up on it, which was a mistake considering how it turned out. Lesson 1-A here is, if you're going to do a reading in the first place, try to keep it in mind :rolleyes:.

I'd never have been able to work out from what you wrote earlier that you actually thought Yi was telling you how to win.
See, now, this makes me despair of life altogether :weep:. I thought I was being perfectly clear, and that's what made it such a good example--but it left a verbally dextrous person such as yourself in the dark :bag: :(.

(I wonder how long it will last. I think we are karmically destined for misunderstood nuances of speech.)
NO. Someday I will learn to explain things properly. That is what will happen.:D

Yes, I mean there should be a middle ground between smiling and rolling about on the floor laughing like a maniac....we need an emoticon whose shoulders gently heave with mirth.
Exactly. And if there used to be one, why did it leave us? Come back, gently-heaving laughing face!!!!

I have always found the provision of emoticons here somewhat random....I mean what kind of forum owner would provide this :freak:
Oh, but I like that one. I like all the emoticons we actually have, because at certain times they are just PERFECT. I just wish we also had the gently-heaving LOL one, and, now that I think of it, one with a halo, because sometimes a person wants to convey (what they think is) their angelic nature.

and what does this really mean :p ? Is it an insult or a good natured dig in the ribs ??
IMO that one is a very friendly dig. I think this one :p has a little more bite, but both of them are pretty good-natured.
 

Trojina

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See, now, this makes me despair of life altogether . I thought I was being perfectly clear, and that's what made it such a good example--but it left a verbally dextrous person such as yourself in the dark
.

Oh no ! Don't despair ! The fact is I often have trouble following simple plot lines...even in children's books (I don't know how children cope with some books I really don't) I often don't see the obvious so you probably were perfectly clear to everyone else. I can be fairly dim...don't over estimate me :flirt:
Also I just hadn't thought of the angle you took on the answer....wasn't able to see it until you pointed it out. We get into our own grooves with ideas about answers don't we....you were on another groove I hadn't thought of. It takes me a while to catch up.

and, now that I think of it, one with a halo, because sometimes a person wants to convey (what they think is) their angelic nature.

yes...I mean we have several devil emoticons....but no angelic one...that must tell us something ;)




ah so this is friendly :p and this :p is similar but not often used.
 

Olga Super Star

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Flowing with this spontaneous moment. We don't know what might happen, so lets hope for the best and be prepared for the worst. Feeling a sense of freedom and being optimistic

I like that.
And also the sotry about the two tickets!

I just got 25 unchanging after asking what are the chances that the big director refunds me of the money I spent to go to that fake audition. I interpreted that as

1) you bloody fool, do you really think you will ever see that money? (innocence)
2) you ought to stop thinking about this (disentangling)
3) she might actually decided to give it to you (the unexpected)

So yes, we don't know what will happen.
(I haven't asked her about the money though)
 

Liselle

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Please come back and post tell us what happens in the end! And I hope you get your money.
 
E

Endless

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Hi ! here's my two cents with a brief experience has just happened this morning:
I got 25uc. in my daily meditation and turn to listing open applications in order to organize weekly agenda. So while writing them down I realized what I thought to be the most suitable announcement is out of my reach because of specific requirements I didn't see before !
Yeah, I was naively hoping for the best but sometimes it happens like that blue_angel citation : 'We don't know what might happen, so lets hope for the best and be prepared for the worst.'
But let's keep working for the best ;)
Endless
 
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rosada

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A friend of mine asked me if I would help her out with some $. She is in a tight spot just now but she seems to always be getting into tight spots. I asked the IC what my attitude should be towards her request. I'm not clear what the IC recommending. Possible interpretations:

a) I needn't feel obligated - I'm not entangled?
b) The hardship she is experiencing is not her fault - she is innocent?
c) If I give her money it should not be a loan, it should be a gift with no strings attached?

I find it very hard to accept that it's okay for me to go with option a, but maybe that's a good starting place. That is, that I first of all I can know that I'm not obligated.
 

Trojina

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Well it's certainly not b or c IMO so it is surely a....not that this is shared readings. You asked about what attitude to take and this is about as clear as it gets. It's not your problem.
 

rosada

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But then what do you make of the image?
"All things attain the natural state of innocence.
Thus the kings of old,
Rich in virtue, and in harmony with the time,
FOSTERED AND NOURISHED ALL BEINGS"?

That sounds like the IC is advising one should help out.
OTOH the hex is unchanging which can mean nothing changes. So would that mean do nothing?
By the way, I did ultimately give her a no strings attached gift. So I suppose this hexagram could describe me feeling I was "innocent" as in not obligated, but also feeling I wanted to "nourish" this friend.
So in this situation I think 25uc meant, "You're not obligated but helping this innocent would be a kingly thing to do - though it probably wont change anything.."
 

Trojina

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I don't agree with your interpretation but the place to discuss that at any length is SR I guess, I mean here is for what you felt the reading meant with hindsight but you posed it as a question so it belonged in SR really. Also there's another thread about unchanging hexagrams in general....will link. I don't think they all mean 'nothing changes'.

Also beware that just because you don't think it's possible Yi can be saying 'it's not your problem, stay disentangled' you are making it mean what is acceptable to you. I find constantly lending a friend money quite weird as IMO that's a family thing unless she has no family I guess. Hilary wrote a recent blog post on doing that, making it mean what is acceptable to you that is. Then again if it's normal to you to keep lending non family members money then I can see how you might come to your interpretation.



A recent 25uc experience of mine : Someone was giving me a little too much unwanted attention. Nothing serious but enough for me to need to indicate subtly 'no I'm not inviting you in'. I thought the subtle knock back was enough so was slightly perturbed to see him somewhere I didn't expect to, a place I'm at regularly so he might know I was there. He told me why he was there anyway but I felt a little paranoid and asked Yi about him being there. I got 25uc and took it that it was just chance he was there and there were no ulterior motives. Later this was confirmed when someone else confirmed to me the reason he said he was there. There were no entangling motives, sometimes people just bump into one another.
 

rosada

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I can see how you might have thought I was asking for a reading from the way I worded my posting. I didn't mean to be asking for a reading. I meant to be giving an example of 25uc and possible interpretations of what the hexagram meant regardless of what I would actually do. Sorry for the confusion. (hmm..is there something about 25 that creates innocent disruptions?)
 

Trojina

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Ah I see, I did wonder if that's how you meant it. It makes sense, sorry to be picky :bows:....and thank you for you example and for drawing attention to the Image which I hadn't thought much about.

(hmm..is there something about 25 that creates innocent disruptions?)

I think so. The guy in my example was making an innocent disruption after all.
 

veavea

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A recent 25uc experience of mine : Someone was giving me a little too much unwanted attention. Nothing serious but enough for me to need to indicate subtly 'no I'm not inviting you in'. I thought the subtle knock back was enough so was slightly perturbed to see him somewhere I didn't expect to, a place I'm at regularly so he might know I was there. He told me why he was there anyway but I felt a little paranoid and asked Yi about him being there. I got 25uc and took it that it was just chance he was there and there were no ulterior motives. Later this was confirmed when someone else confirmed to me the reason he said he was there. There were no entangling motives, sometimes people just bump into one another.

I had the same just today... I have a cat that comes to visit me. I lost my two beloved cats earlier this year and now this big ginger tom cat comes to visit me and seems to like my house a lot. i wondered what his motivations were!! does he just like me or is he taking advantage of my kindly nature?! I asked this while he was snoring curled up on my feet. I got 25uc. He's just an innocent cat!! :hug:

But also an innocent disruption!! I don't mind a visitor now and then but he seems to want to move in... :rolleyes:
 

Trojina

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Love it ! He didn't plan to move in you see, he just happened to be passing.....
 

veavea

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Well he went home (I assume) last night but is back this morning!! Sleeping upstairs on a chair. He's still eating his way through the cat food that I had left over from my previous cats, but I've told him I'm not buying any more when it's all gone...

Anyway, this morning I have 25 uc again, for a different question! I've been applying for jobs unsuccessfully, as well as trying to write a book and develop a profile as a freelance journalist... but despite some interest and modest success I'm not earning anywhere near enough money to live on (let alone support a ginger cat!) - asked Yi what are my chances for getting a job? 19 uc. What do I need to do to get a job? 25 uc.

:confused:

As I don't have an interpretation at all - such is my bafflement over current predicament - maybe shared readings is the place for this...?!
 

Trojina

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It sort of appears to be out of your hands....much like the cat. That cat just turned up out the blue (hex 25uc) and so will the job (25uc). You didn't have to 'do' anything except be open to responding in truth of your own nature.

Unless the cat belongs to someone else I think you may need to keep him because he is actually aligned in a mysterious way with your job search. Your cats died not so long ago and then this cat showed up ? It sounds so 19 to me. You were approached by Spirit of Cat...in the form of Mr Ginger Tom. I wonder what's approaching in terms of work ?

I'm inclined to see these answers as holistic for you. These answers aren't just about your job but your life and although the different bits of it seem very separate concerns perhaps they are connected in all kinds of ways. Symbolically and even literally.
 

veavea

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Hmm, thanks so much, Trojina, that's strange you should say all that, as the unspoken/semi-conscious part of my question about the cat was wondering whether he was some sort of spirit cat. He did turn up shortly after my cats both died (January and March - I was utterly bereft) and then I bought a Japanese lucky cat and put it in my window. Then the cat started visiting in May.

Re work and my life, I've tried to follow the Yi after losing my (dead end) job some months ago, Yi seemed to be encouraging me to use the time to find my true path, which I think I've been doing. Somehow I've kept my head above water and kept the faith as I work towards what I'd like to be my new path, but I'm starting to lose my nerve and confidence as the barren period drags on...!

I'll report back with any updates that could shed light on these UC castings...! :) Thanks again, I'm really grateful for your insights :bows:
 

veavea

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Several months later - I came to this thread having forgotten I'd posted here before on 25uc and can confirm, as per above, that the job DID turn up unexpectedly out of the blue. Granted I had let it be known that I was interested in getting some work teaching in a university dept, but thought it might only be a few hours here and there - weeks later they offered me an actual job which was a complete surprise - no interview, no advance warning. So I had remained innocent - I wasn't expecting much and got a whole lot more than I'd dare to hope for.

Now as for the cat...!!! The ginger cat has almost moved in, but I still don't know if he belongs to someone else. My son, by the way, hates the cat and I don't know why. I guess it's because he misses our cats who both died earlier this year, but so do I - but I find the ginger cat's presence a comfort whereas he finds it an irritant. Anyway, last night I asked yi 'what am I going to do about this cat?' Once again I got - 25uc!

Thinking back to Lisa's experience with the raffle I wonder whether one way of interpreting 25uc is an unexpected gift?
 

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