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Thread: the sequence of I Ching

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by arabella View Post
    Which half is the random half?
    The meaningful half is 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 ... 61-62, 63-64
    The random half is 2-3, 4-5, 6-7, 8-9 ... 60-61, 62-63.

    Here's the recipe:
    1) Take the 24 pairs that represent the Inverse of each other and the 8 pairs of Opposites where the hexagrams are symmetrical and so have no inverse.
    2) Scramble these meaningful pairs into a random sequence.
    3) Take the two most interesting pairs and have these begin and end your new sequence.
    4) As with any true random number sequence, where splashes of accidental order appear, you will have a few cases where this suggests a deeper order. Leave these where they lie.

    You now have something that looks a bit like life itself, half order, half chaos, but with several big hints of a great mystery to be solved, one that might explain it all if you could only become a master. It's like an X-Prize - people will work on the puzzle for thousands of years, and who knows what they might discover along the way. Your part is now done, as long as you don't tell folks what you done.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradford View Post
    The meaningful half is 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 ... 61-62, 63-64
    The random half is 2-3, 4-5, 6-7, 8-9 ... 60-61, 62-63.

    Here's the recipe:
    1) Take the 24 pairs that represent the Inverse of each other and the 8 pairs of Opposites where the hexagrams are symmetrical and so have no inverse.
    2) Scramble these meaningful pairs into a random sequence.
    3) Take the two most interesting pairs and have these begin and end your new sequence.
    4) As with any true random number sequence, where splashes of accidental order appear, you will have a few cases where this suggests a deeper order. Leave these where they lie.

    You now have something that looks a bit like life itself, half order, half chaos, but with several big hints of a great mystery to be solved, one that might explain it all if you could only become a master. It's like an X-Prize - people will work on the puzzle for thousands of years, and who knows what they might discover along the way. Your part is now done, as long as you don't tell folks what you done.

    Who may have created this order and if they did on purpose -- why? I always thought it reflected the mathematics of the 64 bit computer code which was somehow inherent in the universal order -- except it was discovered intially for some other purpose.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by arabella View Post
    Who may have created this order and if they did on purpose -- why? I always thought it reflected the mathematics of the 64 bit computer code which was somehow inherent in the universal order -- except it was discovered intially for some other purpose.
    Well, there IS one of those. There is a perfect order reflecting the pure binary mathematics. It's the other common arrangement, known as the Xian Tian, Early Heaven or Primal Arrangement. In the eight by-eight grid form all of the Yijing's structures and dimensions make sense. It almost certainly wasn't discovered by the authors of the Yi though. It wasn't discovered until about a thousand years ago. It doesn't really tell much more of a story than any other arrangement, however, any more than reading a DNA sequence gives you a picture of the creature it belongs to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradford View Post
    Well, there IS one of those. There is a perfect order reflecting the pure binary mathematics. It's the other common arrangement, known as the Xian Tian, Early Heaven or Primal Arrangement. In the eight by-eight grid form all of the Yijing's structures and dimensions make sense. It almost certainly wasn't discovered by the authors of the Yi though. It wasn't discovered until about a thousand years ago. It doesn't really tell much more of a story than any other arrangement, however, any more than reading a DNA sequence gives you a picture of the creature it belongs to.
    So, if the original was all jumbled up maybe it was reflective of more than four dimensions and in actuality it is in order, but an order we simply can't follow with the numbers of coordinates we have on hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arabella View Post
    So, if the original was all jumbled up maybe it was reflective of more than four dimensions and in actuality it is in order, but an order we simply can't follow with the numbers of coordinates we have on hand.
    People have been trying for over two thousand years, and lately with big computers.
    No joy. I personally think they are wasting their time. And mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradford View Post
    People have been trying for over two thousand years, and lately with big computers.
    No joy. I personally think they are wasting their time. And mine.
    So, what's the alternative? It is what you think it is? Structure du jour? Becomes what you imagine; serves the purpose of the moment? Or maybe, matches the vibration of the being who approaches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arabella View Post
    So, what's the alternative? It is what you think it is? Structure du jour? Becomes what you imagine; serves the purpose of the moment? Or maybe, matches the vibration of the being who approaches?
    The inventors of the Tarot cards had the right idea. You keep shuffling the sequence.
    But if you want to study the meanings apart from divination, look to the orderly alternative, not the random one.

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  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradford View Post
    The inventors of the Tarot cards had the right idea. You keep shuffling the sequence.
    But if you want to study the meanings apart from divination, look to the orderly alternative, not the random one.
    That shuffling generally comes from the enquirer with the implication that the cards fall to the order dictated by their situation/influence. The "storybook" order is, in my mind at least, for memorisation purposes. Similar idea.

    For divination purposes, the story has no significance. I imagine that's what you're suggesting.

    And, in the end, it's all a way of priming your mind, isn't it? One of the most amazing diviners I've ever met took his cues from any sequence he ran across. We were messing about backstage one night where we both worked at the opera during a run of "Carmen." And the over-sized prop deck of cards for the fortune telling trio were sitting there. He said "pick three cards," and I did. And half an hour later he'd told my life's story forwards and backwards. Some of the things he told me were past, many others have happened since. A few I'm still waiting for. I've never seen the like again. And, when he was done, he didn't remember anything he'd said. Go figure.

  11. #19
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    A simple example of studying the gua using the Xian Tian or orderly sequence:
    If you examine the system column by column you learn what a particular bagua in the upper position means and make a connection between each of the eight gua in each set.
    If you examine the system row by row you learn what a particular bagua in the lower position means and group these into sets of eight.
    This is structurally meaningful, not just trying to turn the mind loose to connect the dots. But it's most meaningful if you are studying the simple dimensions (like upper and lower) that the original authors were likely to have used.
    Similarly in Tarot, if you want to know what the ten numbers meant you would look for a common denominator in all four of the aces, two's, etc.

  12. #20

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    Similarly in Tarot, if you want to know what the ten numbers meant you would look for a common denominator in all four of the aces, two's, etc.
    The common denominator is the corresponding Major Arcana -- Ones all reflect aspects of The Magician, Twos all reflect the High Priestess -- these being filtered through the lenses of the different suits. The theory gets complicated with the recognition that the majors are differently arranged in different traditions. The Marseilles tarot, for instance, puts the Fool near the end -- 20 or 21 -- I'm too lazy to look it up. The Thoth Tarot also messes about with the order of the majors -- that's probably the most recent re-organization that is generally recognized.

    Once you learn the order of the majors (in your preferred tradition) and their "story," you can construct a meaning for a minor even though you may not specifically recall the card. Even if I can't recall a meaning for seven of pentacles, I can construe that it concerns physical possessions (pentacles) associated with issues of pride, stubbornness, reward for efforts, and the entire complex of meanings associated with The Chariot.

    The question then becomes... can the same process be used on I Ching? 1 and 2 represent pure forms; 63 represents the ideal arrangement of yang and yin. Assuming one can recall the form of a random hexagram, can one construct a relatively accurate meaning for an individual line without depending on brute memorization?

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